WHATS GOING ON AT ODSAL

[paul hicks]

24 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

  The clubs you mention struck lucky - for a number of different reasons.

  Wakefield and their council - Sheffield and their council are a different story.

  Neighbouring cities have different outcomes.Manchester,certainly post-IRAbomb,received/receives more than Salford.

  As described above,Leeds receive more money,and publicity than Bradford.

  Newcastle has had more spent on it,for the past few decades than Sunderland.

   Cardiff gets more than Swansea.

  New sports stadia,nowadays,ain't gonna be easy - even if the council are onside.

Salford has actually benefited from been part of greater Manchester in terms of business investment but of course as a council its been dragged under when it comes to government funding 

[northamptoncougar]

I’m torn here. I don’t like Bradford and never will. But do I want them to cease? I might chuckle for a few minutes if they folded but probably not overall, they have a history and a place in the game and I believe the game needs them. 

Is their owner a complete ####? Well yes obviously, but that shouldn’t mean the fans are punished, they are RL fans after all. 

I think being forced to play at Odsal for the next 50 years floating around the bottom of L1 a la Highfield would suit me just fine, but then again I could be just a touch bitter. 

Ah well!!!!

[Big Picture]

6 hours ago, TrueBull said:

https://www.bradfordbulls.co.uk/article/53166/these-might-be-the-last-games-at-odsal--bexit-looms

Several things of interest in that. The main one being he refused to sign a lease due to his affordability concerns.

Chalmers is worried about meeting a rent which works out to less than 5,500£ per home league match? What is wrong with the Bulls' operation that such a modest rent is any sort of issue???

[paulwalker71]

10 minutes ago, northamptoncougar said:

...but then again I could be just a touch bitter. 

A touch?

[paulwalker71]

2 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Chalmers is worried about meeting a rent which works out to less than 5,500£ per home league match? What is wrong with the Bulls' operation that such a modest rent is any sort of issue???

Did you actually read the report you linked?

This is actually what he said

Quote

It's not just rent, but rates, insurance, utilities, maintenance and operating costs, which make Odsal the most expensive ground relative to income generated in rugby league in the UK

Does that help at all?

[Big Picture]

5 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

Did you actually read the report you linked?

This is actually what he said

Does that help at all?

Yes I did read it, and the rent figure is the amount mentioned as a particular issue.

[Lowdesert]

6 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

Did you actually read the report you linked?

This is actually what he said

Does that help at all?

Chalmers also said it was up to the Council and RFL to come up with a solution, or words to that effect.  It seems that he is resolved to never being able to fulfill the payment requirement.

Just on the cost Paul, any idea what the total payment is?

[Tommygilf]

Doesn't surprise me at all the comments the Chairman has made about the feasability of Odsal. I remember reading from Gary Hetherington that maintaining the old South Stand was running into 6 figures by the end.

Problem is what can they do now? Valley Parade isn't an option. "Upgrading Odsal" via anything that isn't knocking 75% of it down and totally rebuilding will be pointless - even though as an outsider that is my preference. As I understand it YCCC are upgrading Bradford PA but to what level and how suitable that could ever be I don't know. 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

45 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

Did you actually read the report you linked?

This is actually what he said

Does that help at all?

Some of his claims are plain wrong (eg whilst WMDC's loan to WTRLFC is at nowhere near a commercial interest rate it certainly isn't interest free). Given that I'm less inclined to believe anything else he says to be true in the article

[The 4 of Us]

He’s threatening the RFL to reduce the costs he knew existed when he took the club over. Not sure “I’ll take us to Dewsbury if you don’t” is going to be the empty handed threat it appears to be. Average crowds to half overnight? He’ll soon find out how viable the club is then. Not sure the cost benefit is in favour of that solution. 

[Angelic Cynic]

13 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Some of his claims are plain wrong (eg whilst WMDC's loan to WTRLFC is at nowhere near a commercial interest rate it certainly isn't interest free). Given that I'm less inclined to believe anything else he says to be true in the article

  That may be the information he has received.I don't think many Wakefield followers believe everything uttered by the people on their council.

   A bit of bluff has to play a part - and what is put into the public domain isn't always correct.

  If you believe the local press - a short time after this was released - https://www.wakefield.gov.uk/Pages/News/PR-9017.aspx

  Wakefield Trinity were being done a small favour - https://www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/news/wakefield-council-papers-reveal-trinity-paid-significantly-above-market-value-for-belle-vue-ground-1-9703559

  Unfortunately,I don't think the RFL have the status or the nous when it comes to clubs dealing with councils.

  This is where good chairmen/boards of directors seem vital.

[paulwalker71]

1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

Chalmers also said it was up to the Council and RFL to come up with a solution, or words to that effect.  It seems that he is resolved to never being able to fulfill the payment requirement.

Just on the cost Paul, any idea what the total payment is?

No idea, mate

That £72K rent figure has been doing the rounds for a few years - it's actually the first time I've seen it confirmed, but I heard that figure years ago.

The real 'killer', I suspect, is the maintenance. It's a huge and increasingly crumbling site. It doesn't look like all that much is happening, but there must be certain essential works getting done just to get a safety certificate.

[GUBRATS]

8 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Yeah in fairness Scotchy certainly has a point on this occasion. A model along the lines of Leigh Sports Village is something that Bradford Council should look at in my opinion. It serves many purposes and services many requirements. 

And funnily enough Leigh is not Leeds either 

Wigan ( Leigh ) council contributed no actual cash to the building of the LSV , they provided land to a private developer , and signed as underwriting the project , we have been very fortunate that a lot of stars aligned to enable it to be built , including being finished just as we saw the financial crash of 08 , it would not be built now 

[TrueBull]

2 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

Chalmers also said it was up to the Council and RFL to come up with a solution, or words to that effect.  It seems that he is resolved to never being able to fulfill the payment requirement.

Just on the cost Paul, any idea what the total payment is?

Total required to put on 15 home games a season is in the £600k range. 

[Lounge Room Lizard]

1. Bradford Bulls need to stay in the City long Term and have a realistic plan to do that. I am not sure thats the case. Its OK Chambers saying he wants out of Odsal. But what is the plan for Bradford Bulls? Playing outside the City will be a long painful exercise that will damage the Bulls in my opinion.

2.Keighley is not an option for me. Its in the Council area of Bradford, but is a seperate Town and nothing really to do with Bradford as a City. So building something there for the Bulls is a No Go. Valley Parade is a poor option. Which leaves BPA. Is that a good option & is it realistic for the Bulls to play there?

3.Which leaves BPA. Is there enough area to build a Multi Sports Complex there? If not is there somewhere in the Southern Part of the City that the Council would Swap for Odsal and BPA Ground where a Sports Complex could be built? Why not look to a Sponsor like Prudential etc to help develop a Compley with Facilities they could use like Conference Room or Offices? 5 A side pitch(s) are a money maker. A 10k Stadium with the possibilty of Temp Seating or to further build in Future is all thats needed if needs be. The Bulls and BPA dont need anything bigger at the mo.

4.Its strange that the management at the Bulls didnt work out that playing out of Odsal would be a Millstone for them just like previous Managements have said. Before taking on the Club, you would think they would have done a Cost evaluation of such things as playing at Odsal etc. Moaning about it now is a bit late. What plans do Chambers & Co have for the Bulls Long term in playing in the City?

5.And do Bradford need to be having 22 FT players in the Championship in the first season? York, Halifax, Featherstone (Rhinos), Swinton, Batley etc have survived being PT. Fax, Keighley and Fev run Reserve Grades like Bradford. IF Bradfords costs are high & have no money, then maybe they have need to stop having so many FT players.

[GUBRATS]

7 hours ago, paul hicks said:

what anymore bonkers than chambers saying they could be playing at Dewsbury next season a ground not even in the same city. by the way I never mentioned park avenue which I think is smaller than cougar park in terms of room for spectators .

as for why did leigh not go play at Wigan well I think the answer is simple . because the council were willing to pay for the leigh ground and there we again come round to the subject of money which seems to be of more concern than playing a game of rugby league 

No they weren't , Wigan ( Leigh ) council didn't supply one single penny to the building of the LSV 

[TrueBull]

1 hour ago, The 4 of Us said:

He’s threatening the RFL to reduce the costs he knew existed when he took the club over. Not sure “I’ll take us to Dewsbury if you don’t” is going to be the empty handed threat it appears to be. Average crowds to half overnight? He’ll soon find out how viable the club is then. Not sure the cost benefit is in favour of that solution. 

The first bit of his article, he’s saying that the primary stakeholders didn’t disclose all the pertinent info. That’s a big accusation. 

 

[The 4 of Us]

40 minutes ago, TrueBull said:

The first bit of his article, he’s saying that the primary stakeholders didn’t disclose all the pertinent info. That’s a big accusation. 

 

He didn’t know the rent before he signed up? And it’s taken him how long to find out? Hhhhmmm. 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

58 minutes ago, TrueBull said:

The first bit of his article, he’s saying that the primary stakeholders didn’t disclose all the pertinent info. That’s a big accusation. 

 

I'd suggest that it points to him not having asked the right questions.  It was (as BSJ pointed out) his responsibility to carry out due diligence. Caveat emptor and all that...  

[The Blues Ox]

So they knew the figures beforehand, was it wise to spend so much on a mainly full time squad?

[Mumby Magic]

9 hours ago, John Drake said:

Suggesting Keighley could share a stadium with Bradford Bulls and Bradford Park Avenue in South Bradford is just bonkers.

You may as well ask why Leigh didn't just go and play at Wigan.

Disagree John, As of now it is an option. Of which Keighley are the only other team within a BD postcode. Salford moving 8 miles to a new stadium is another poser though.

[Hemi4561]

1 hour ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

1. Bradford Bulls need to stay in the City long Term and have a realistic plan to do that. I am not sure thats the case. Its OK Chambers saying he wants out of Odsal. But what is the plan for Bradford Bulls? Playing outside the City will be a long painful exercise that will damage the Bulls in my opinion.

2.Keighley is not an option for me. Its in the Council area of Bradford, but is a seperate Town and nothing really to do with Bradford as a City. So building something there for the Bulls is a No Go. Valley Parade is a poor option. Which leaves BPA. Is that a good option & is it realistic for the Bulls to play there?

3.Which leaves BPA. Is there enough area to build a Multi Sports Complex there? If not is there somewhere in the Southern Part of the City that the Council would Swap for Odsal and BPA Ground where a Sports Complex could be built? Why not look to a Sponsor like Prudential etc to help develop a Compley with Facilities they could use like Conference Room or Offices? 5 A side pitch(s) are a money maker. A 10k Stadium with the possibilty of Temp Seating or to further build in Future is all thats needed if needs be. The Bulls and BPA dont need anything bigger at the mo.

4.Its strange that the management at the Bulls didnt work out that playing out of Odsal would be a Millstone for them just like previous Managements have said. Before taking on the Club, you would think they would have done a Cost evaluation of such things as playing at Odsal etc. Moaning about it now is a bit late. What plans do Chambers & Co have for the Bulls Long term in playing in the City?

5.And do Bradford need to be having 22 FT players in the Championship in the first season? York, Halifax, Featherstone (Rhinos), Swinton, Batley etc have survived being PT. Fax, Keighley and Fev run Reserve Grades like Bradford. IF Bradfords costs are high & have no money, then maybe they have need to stop having so many FT players.

Point 2.As I have said earlier in this thread 540000 pay their Council tax to Bradford, they don't pay to have it all spent in a small area that you call the city. Take a look at all the outlying areas that were swallowed up in1974. If the council want to build a new stadium for all why not build it in either the geographic centre of the district or the centre of population. I doubt if either of these would be any where near Odsal, or south Bradford. 

But as John Drake has pointed out so clearly, There is no council money to prop the Bulls up with nor will there be. If there is an obligation to provide an alternative venue for the Bulls on the sale of Odsal it will not be to provide them with whatever they wish for in terms of a ground, and it most certainly not include any cash injection to fund an ongoing business that is unable to cover its operating costs.

Please note my position here is not anti Bulls, I made much the same observations in the thread on Allerdale councils change of heart weeks ago. 

[Blind side johnny]

19 hours ago, paul hicks said:

for me chambers should take the bull by the horns so to speak and drag them to another ground and then its a fresh start for all concerned the bulls, RFL and the council. 

he says he has plans so put them into practice and move then the costs he complains about will not be there so they can regroup with no excuses or indeed cost problems .

for the rfl and the council well both would benefit because with no spots club to get in the way the site could be designated for commercial or housing use and could be sold at a bigger profit than either ground rental or long lease with a large lump some payment

With no pro RL being played at Odsal I believe that the RFL lease defaults to the council with no compensation - at least that was the original stipulation within the lease.. if that is still the case then the RFL are between a rock and a hard place. Thankfully they have a team of crack negotiators to ensure that the game doesn't suffer from this impasse.

[Mumby Magic]

We have an opportunity to make the ground into a multi purpose stadium, including the area behind it. Yes investment of some means is needed but it doesn't have to be a new stadium. Odsal has countless buildings as you enter the ground near the top. Surely one of them can be converted to increase revenue streams for events? Dogs has been mentioned plus we have Speedway and Stock Cars as options. What do the council really want with odsal??? In addition why can't BPA move in with us? Have a Union team play in winter. Is it really that hard to increase the usage at odsal?

 

 

 

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

20 hours ago, John Drake said:

As a Bradfordian, born and bred, all I am trying to achieve here is to get people to engage with reality when proposing what should happen with regard to the future of Bradford Bulls and Odsal Stadium. Otherwise, you'll be doomed to disappointment.

Forget the grand schemes, we've heard 'em all before. Forget spending large sums of public money. It doesn't exist.

As someone involved in local politics in Shropshire, I'm happy to confirm the ghastly truth of your last sentence. Back on topic (sorry) are the dates that Chalmers is quoting closing dates for clubs to confirm to the RFL where they'll be playing next season?