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WHATS GOING ON AT ODSAL


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35 minutes ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

But having atleast 22 FT players and paying good money to sign junior players is also a big reason why the Bulls have no money. There is no need for the Bulls to have 22 FT players or pay out as much as they have. And the big wage bill has got them where?

Odsal may cost a fortune, but that was clear when Chambers and co agreed this deal with the RFL! And it was Chambers that agreed to the deal with the RFL regarding Odsal. His poor management has helped get the Bulls to this stage, yet he is trying to blame everybody but himself.

Hopefully you have chance to read my above post - I have no time for Chalmers at all.

However, if I were to take his comments as the truth, I guess what I'd say to you is that what would your preffered option be here? Presumably the Bulls are free from the draining commitments of the stadium and - in theory- able to maintain a hybrid-full time team playing out of Dewsbury without going into administration etc. Not sure what the issue would be with that in cloth cutting terms. In theory. In know reality is somewhat different

SQL Honours

Play off mini league winner - 2002. Bronze Medalist - 2003. Big Split Group Winner - 2006. Minor Stupidship - 2005, 2006. Cup Silver Medalist - 2008, 2009

CHAMPION - 2005, 2009, 2010

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1 minute ago, Amber Avenger said:

Hopefully you have chance to read my above post - I have no time for Chalmers at all.

However, if I were to take his comments as the truth, I guess what I'd say to you is that what would your preffered option be here? Presumably the Bulls are free from the draining commitments of the stadium and able to maintain a full time team playing out of Dewsbury without going into administration etc. Not sure what the issue would be with that in cloth cutting terms

Why a FT team when you are not near to being a Super League team? Why not a PT team like Fev, Halifax, York, Swinton etc manage to be and not waste thousands of pounds? Being FT is not needed and has seen further money thrown away by the Bulls who will finish 6th this year behind teams that have spent far less and are PT.

Odsal may be a millstone, but Chambers and Co knew that when they "worked" with the RFL and agreed to take on the running of Bradford Bulls playing out of Odsal. He may not have signed the deal, but he agreed to take it on and knew the Costs. Why moan and scream now? Chambers and Co have no money and have no idea. Its OK playing out of Dewsbury fot a couple of years. But how exactly will Chambers get the Bulls back playing in Bradford and where? Each option currently will cost alot of money that the Bulls/Chambers dont have!

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My only real concern is the time we'll be out of the city. The Tetley''s stadium is a fine ground and easily the best alternative with all things considered.

The problem is the time we'll be away - and if we'll ever get back. Chalmers has given a two year timescale, though nothing has yet been set in stone. One, unidentified, area has been identified and the council contacted but they haven't even agreed to it yet, so it's not even at 'early stages,' though he does have a development company involved. There is a 2 year deal with Dewsbury ( though, as yet no RFL approval) but Chalmers also says it may take 4 years and that amount of time away form Bradford is verging on forever, to be honest and suggests that even he is far from sure about the situation.

Incidentally, I can see no problem with the ground share. Many clubs have done the same over recent (and not so recent) times. Wakefield have even played SL at the Tetley's stadium, so why would there be a problem?

No team is an island.........................................

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7 minutes ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

Why a FT team when you are not near to being a Super League team? Why not a PT team like Fev, Halifax, York, Swinton etc manage to be and not waste thousands of pounds? Being FT is not needed and has seen further money thrown away by the Bulls who will finish 6th this year behind teams that have spent far less and are PT.

Odsal may be a millstone, but Chambers and Co knew that when they "worked" with the RFL and agreed to take on the running of Bradford Bulls playing out of Odsal. He may not have signed the deal, but he agreed to take it on and knew the Costs. Why moan and scream now? Chambers and Co have no money and have no idea. Its OK playing out of Dewsbury fot a couple of years. But how exactly will Chambers get the Bulls back playing in Bradford and where? Each option currently will cost alot of money that the Bulls/Chambers dont have!

Well exactly, why is he only talking about it now? That's the key question, that I try to explore in my post above.

My conclusion - he would have moaned about in in 2019 when our current agreement was about to expire were we Part Time, Full Time whatever. I agree the club has been mismanaged, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree if you think it would have made a blind bit of difference because IMO something far bigger is in play

SQL Honours

Play off mini league winner - 2002. Bronze Medalist - 2003. Big Split Group Winner - 2006. Minor Stupidship - 2005, 2006. Cup Silver Medalist - 2008, 2009

CHAMPION - 2005, 2009, 2010

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Odsal is a dead end for anyone.  If Bradford are to survive they have to move and they and the RLF should have bitten the bullet years ago.

Even if it were filled in then any substructures for any subsequent building would be problematical.

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Amber,

               I fully agree with the majority of your points especially where the R.F.L. is concerned. Why indeed was the Lowe,Chalmers the preferred deal? Why did the other prospective owners turned away without even putting a bid in.?Why was the lease bought by the R.F.L. without the other member clubs consulted? I know it saved Bradford at the time but for how long before the club was in Administration again.Why has nothing been forthcoming from the R.F.L. to allay these concerns? Personally I do not blame Charmers,Lowe, at least they have managed to keep the club going and I presume now somewhere near being on a stable footing.He is actually trying to work with one arm tied round his back with the so called costing of £400K before the season even starts.Surely his mission was to improve the situation at the club and as you point out what chance would there have been achieving that with a team full of juniors and amateurs getting hammered every week. Absolutely none.Obviously the club has been badly mismanaged over several years but I personally do not agree that Chalmers has made the club worse.Now ,of course we have Mr. Wood having his own Private Box at Odsal. I may be reading something into this that is not there but nothing surprises me anymore with the R.F.L.As for Chalmers being "a patsy" I think we have to look no further than the R.F.L. here with their surprise leader, Mr. Rimmer.So, in my humble opinion some things have yet to surface regarding this fiasco, but I will not be holding my breath,you would get more information from the Mafia that you will from the R.F.L. But as I have posted earlier it will make a lot of so called R.F.L supporters happy to see the Bulls in strife again.

 

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11 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Not sure about inert landfill such as rubble etc. Obviously anything obnoxious would likely be ruled out but rules surrounding a multitude of seeming dangerous or nuisance activities are quite often surprisingly lax - a hole (ex quarry) smack bang in the middle of a small town, and also surrounded by housing, not far from me has recently been filled in as a waste site, and houses are already going up on the new surface.

Pity about the obnoxious bit as it could have been a way to rid us of Nige, Rimmer, Chambers and any number of SL Chairmen, and I should imagine the RFL and others have a awful lot that they would like burying with regards the dealings surrounding the whole Bulls/RFL/Odsal saga.

I am far from a Bull's fan but can the game shrug off the loss of a big city side of which we have but a handful as being of no consequence, BMDC have never been the most enlightened of authorities, quick to bask in reflected glories, but reticent to put sports facilities to the forefront of it's bugeting.   Granted they have vast experience in dealing with  failing  sporting clubs, it seems almost a yearly occurrence back to the day's of BPA, but that must say something, If they had got all the parties together:Cricket, Football, RL and created a proper sporting complex like those found in Europe when grants and land was more readily available then numerous administration's, collapses and tragedies may have been avoided.

As things stand now I wouldn't place money on a Bull's return soon, not in there current guise anyway,  but I would say it's the end of Odsal, it's time was many years ago when safety and comfort were unexpected by spectator's, it was just a case of being there.

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18 minutes ago, fairfolly said:

Amber,

               I fully agree with the majority of your points especially where the R.F.L. is concerned. Why indeed was the Lowe,Chalmers the preferred deal? Why did the other prospective owners turned away without even putting a bid in.?Why was the lease bought by the R.F.L. without the other member clubs consulted? I know it saved Bradford at the time but for how long before the club was in Administration again.Why has nothing been forthcoming from the R.F.L. to allay these concerns? Personally I do not blame Charmers,Lowe, at least they have managed to keep the club going and I presume now somewhere near being on a stable footing.He is actually trying to work with one arm tied round his back with the so called costing of £400K before the season even starts.Surely his mission was to improve the situation at the club and as you point out what chance would there have been achieving that with a team full of juniors and amateurs getting hammered every week. Absolutely none.Obviously the club has been badly mismanaged over several years but I personally do not agree that Chalmers has made the club worse.Now ,of course we have Mr. Wood having his own Private Box at Odsal. I may be reading something into this that is not there but nothing surprises me anymore with the R.F.L.As for Chalmers being "a patsy" I think we have to look no further than the R.F.L. here with their surprise leader, Mr. Rimmer.So, in my humble opinion some things have yet to surface regarding this fiasco, but I will not be holding my breath,you would get more information from the Mafia that you will from the R.F.L. But as I have posted earlier it will make a lot of so called R.F.L supporters happy to see the Bulls in strife again.

 

Nigel Wood has alot to answer for in my opinion. But much like his time as CEO at Fax his answer will be to not answer questions and blame others. That he has a box he has at the Bulls is just typical of him. Its somebody I would not trust and he has alot to answer for regarding the Bulls/Odsal deals that should be investigated in my opinion.

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Nothing shocks or surprises me with Bradford anymore.

I feel if Bradford leave the city they will never return, much like Swinton when they left Station Road in the early 90's.

This may sound like a silly suggestion but why don't they stay at Odsal next seasons but with players who are part time, happy to exist in the Championship instead of wasting money they don't have trying to get into the top flight. 

That way the money saved could go into the stadium. 

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4 minutes ago, Nate90 said:

This may sound like a silly suggestion but why don't they stay at Odsal next seasons but with players who are part time, happy to exist in the Championship instead of wasting money they don't have trying to get into the top flight. 

That way the money saved could go into the stadium. 

Odsal needs millions of pounds spent on it to make it long term viable. The suggestion from Chalmers isn't to come back to Odsal, it's to come back to a brand new stadium elsewhere in Bradford (not sure where yet, heard it'll be in the garden where the Cottingley Fairies were found). 

To go part time and put the money into Odsal is basically treading water, or - in reality - probably worse. 

SQL Honours

Play off mini league winner - 2002. Bronze Medalist - 2003. Big Split Group Winner - 2006. Minor Stupidship - 2005, 2006. Cup Silver Medalist - 2008, 2009

CHAMPION - 2005, 2009, 2010

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1 hour ago, Amber Avenger said:

This could still go one of a few ways – but ultimately I suspect we won’t be playing at Odsal next year (or ever again), there won’t be any new stadium in 2-4 years, and Chalmers won’t be at the helm of the club within that time either. Where that leaves us – aside from in Dewsbury – who knows?

I think you're spot on with this, by the way. Not sure about the rest but I'll assign it to incompetence rather than malice unless and until something else comes out.

But, by and large, clubs leaving their towns, in any sport, without a home already being built for them to return to, doesn't end well.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I think you're spot on with this, by the way. Not sure about the rest but I'll assign it to incompetence rather than malice unless and until something else comes out.

That's fair enough - there is plenty of evidence of incompetence.

Someone posted a extensive list on RLFans earlier, not limited to the fact that the Away Jersey replicas looked naff all like the ones the players wore, this years replicas had 100s ordered in totally the wrong size, slagging off every club going, Geoff Toovey (remember him?!) and his visa, the club's press releases severe lack of proof reading for 18 months etc etc. 

Not all done directly by him, but he's the figurehead, the owner, it reflects on him. The bloke couldn't give a stuff.

SQL Honours

Play off mini league winner - 2002. Bronze Medalist - 2003. Big Split Group Winner - 2006. Minor Stupidship - 2005, 2006. Cup Silver Medalist - 2008, 2009

CHAMPION - 2005, 2009, 2010

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Well my hope Amber is that if the Bulls do manage to somehow get a new purpose built stadium it is quite near where some poster suggested earlier. I the cinema complex at Thornbury crossroads where the Bradford/Leeds boundary line is and preferably just on the Leeds side.20 metres on the Leeds side would be great.If they can keep the Bradford Bulls name at Dewsbury I can see no problem with retaining the name there.At least the rates would be much cheaper there,the very reason businesses are moving away from Bradford to Leeds.Bradford as a Town is finished, plenty of cosmetic surgery proposed but nothing that will change the economics of Bradford.

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odsal is a monster of the past that's so far past its sell by date that environmental health would be forgiven for refusing to inspect it so yes they had to move.

back in 2 to 4 years well the question is at what ground because I don't see them having the money to purchase a patch of ground let alone the money to build one .

could they get a ground a bit like hunslet but there again would that be what the bulls would aspire to ?.

I remember bramley leaving mcclaren field and moving a couple of miles to Kirkstall and that was the death of them as a bramley club .

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2 hours ago, fairfolly said:

etc etc etc    Athletics ,gone.What have we now in their place, Qaeed Azam cricket league, some sort of Kabbadi League.Tells its own story.And please let us not turn it into a Party Political story. All other towns in the U.K. are suffering the same,have they all lost all of their sports facilities and teams? I think I know the answer to that.

Just on this paragraph... didn't realise they had a Kabbadi league.   If RFL ever wanted to see how a sport turned around itself they could look at how Kabbadi turned itself from a dying sport to one that has huge interest and media coverage in its niche.  Key being it is niche with a relatively limited geographical coverage that was dying out but now has huge commercial input.

Mind you they could look at Netball too.... lots of learning to be gleaned from both sports...

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2 hours ago, fairfolly said:

Chambers refused to sign the deal concerning the lease as it was stipulated that the Bulls would have to pay the maintenance costs along with rental, council taxes etc,etc.The deal had already been signed by previous incumbents but that deal runs out Sept. 1st or so I am led to believe. In normal rental practice surely the Owner of the site should pay for the maintenance, but ,hey ho, never mind,it will make a lot of so called R.L. fans happy that the Bulls are in trouble again.

As I've said before if this incarnation was really new then the previous lease agreement was void. No wonder the ex employees were 'suing' the new club. Plenty of lease agreements place the burden of maintenance on the tenant so nothing unusual there. 

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1 minute ago, hindle xiii said:

I had hoped to come back to Bradford Bulls this season rejuvenated. I'm not.

I am done with that club.

Aaah. Mate. 

Hope you're well, RL aside.

SQL Honours

Play off mini league winner - 2002. Bronze Medalist - 2003. Big Split Group Winner - 2006. Minor Stupidship - 2005, 2006. Cup Silver Medalist - 2008, 2009

CHAMPION - 2005, 2009, 2010

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Redjohn. 

             Neither did I know they had a Kabbadi league,I know nothing about the sport only that the Asian community seem to have plenty of sponsorship available where sport is concerned.I just thought I would throw that in there.The rest is correct though, Bradford is finished as a sporting city whilst this presiding council is in office.Problem is there is not enough voters to get them out.And as I have already pointed out other Town and City councils have the same problems but use the monies available sensibly compared to Bradford.

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1 hour ago, Amber Avenger said:

Odsal needs millions of pounds spent on it to make it long term viable. The suggestion from Chalmers isn't to come back to Odsal, it's to come back to a brand new stadium elsewhere in Bradford (not sure where yet, heard it'll be in the garden where the Cottingley Fairies were found). 

To go part time and put the money into Odsal is basically treading water, or - in reality - probably worse. 

That quote highlights something that rarely, if ever, gets mentioned: the pressure put on all the recent new owners by (many of) the fans of the club wanting instant success and a rapid return to the glory days. Given the recent history of the club treading water for a few years and consolidating before trying to grow wouldn't be a bad thing to do.

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13 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

That quote highlights something that rarely, if ever, gets mentioned: the pressure put on all the recent new owners by (many of) the fans of the club wanting instant success and a rapid return to the glory days. Given the recent history of the club treading water for a few years and consolidating before trying to grow wouldn't be a bad thing to do.

To defend myself - the treading water comment is regarding the Odsal situation. 

I'd have a look back at a lot of the predictions from Bulls fans on here this year. Many people were happy to simply avoid relegation. As someone in the fanbase who speaks to other fans, I don't think anyone is pressuring the club to return to the glory days - Chalmers himself publicly stated Top 5 was an aim, much to the derision of his own fanbase. Most of the glory days fanbase, have peeled away like the paint on the Odsal terraces with every succesive administration. To turn this around on the fans - who have suffered as much as anyone - is unfair IMO. 

SQL Honours

Play off mini league winner - 2002. Bronze Medalist - 2003. Big Split Group Winner - 2006. Minor Stupidship - 2005, 2006. Cup Silver Medalist - 2008, 2009

CHAMPION - 2005, 2009, 2010

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Good luck to Bradford, it's a dangerous move to leave your own town without a concrete plan to return and I say that as a 30 year-old Swinton fan who has never seen his club play in its own town. 

I get that the ground is a relic that has been a millstone around the Bradford neck for years but once it's gone it's gone. Pinning hopes on the council building something is fanciful when local councils have no money for basic services

It's easy to say with hindsight but perhaps they should have had this sorted when they were in a position of strength with huge crowds and the UK economy was much more favourable towards development.

Great news for Dewsbury though, they'll be able to spend a lot more next year with the additional income and it should see them well clear of relegation troubles.

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Let's do a quick calc...  3,000 ST at an average of say £200 each = £600k.  The maintenance is £500k+ pa and growing and the rent is £72k pa on the lease just expired.  You've then got both the wages, operational costs and match day costs.  If the club had a player wage bill of zero then the costs of the stadium are still too much.  Not sure why people don't get that.

The reason why this is being raised now is because the existing lease is up.  So has to be renegotiated.  Given the above it's no surprise that AC won't sign it.

I can't speak for everyone but what I would say is that I'm not coming across any of these BB fans that are 'wanting instant success and a rapid return to the glory days'.  If anything there is a sombre resignation that things will be bad for a long time, but that we're glad to have had those days when so many others haven't, and we live in hope.

Our recent history has been shaped by our owners.  All our owners have been appointed and approved by the RFL.  That appointment process has been shrouded in secrecy, and the one opportunity that we had that it might come out was at the court case from the last admin.  However, that was shut down by being settled out of court in yet another strange episode.  This is the same RFL that compounded our problems by over-seeing the removal of our central funding and dividing it up among the other SL clubs, then awarding swingeing points deductions to successive new owners, and of course cutting the number of SL clubs from 14 to 12 in 2014 meaning relegation.

Which brings us to today...

The club looks like it will leave the city.  If it does then I can't ever see it returning in any meaningful sense.  It'll be the end.  If Bradford Northern is ressurrected as a rival club to play out of Horsfall then that will very divisive and likely to prove to be a poison.  And then there's the chancers, the charlatans, the opportunists.  If Odsal gets sold then there will be an awful lot of money flying around and it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility that some of the characters already known to us fall into this category, and indeed may have contrived it.  If only there were some journalists around to investigate.... but where to find them?

Forever in our shadow, forever on your mind.

 

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Amber is quite correct re the glory days fans. I have been a supporter,sponsor, and everything else since the first game I saw at Odsal in 1950. That is a long,long time. As he says when the Glory days started nearly all the people in my village were there, now those days have gone I bet you can not find four who go.Whole families were attending because whatever has gone on since,the Bulls and Peter Deakin did it right.Nowadays you might see the odd family there and the rest are diehard supporters who have followed them through thick and thin.I am one of those who was quite happy to see them avoid relegation for the next few years and try to build a solid base.The idea that this season they had a chance of promotion to S.L. was just nonsensical,it was never going to happen this season nor next. Quite obviously Andrew Chalmers and John Kear were not going to say that but anybody would half a brain cell could see it was not going to be.All we can hope now is that just maybe the millionaire owner of B.P.A. who is a Bradford lad by the way,is true to his word and brings the Bulls back to Bradford.

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