WHATS GOING ON AT ODSAL

[paul hicks]

14 minutes ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

Mark Wilson (Forty-20) has posted on Twitter a Photo of a "Bradford Northern Rugby League Football Club 2020 Ltd" having been registered! The mess seems to get worse by each passing day. The sad thing is much of this could have been avoided. This whole farce is simply another chapter of the RFL and Clubs-not just Bradford Bulls- pushing fans away from the Sport due to the way they are run and do things. Any lessons learnt? No and no doubt such things will keep on happening.

why blame the RFL for the failure of clubs to live within there means .

lessons learned yes make clubs live within there means and don't give in to blackmail from those that just want handouts . this is an entertainment industry and theatres and cinema's ect that don't make a profit don't stay open .

yes at grassroots its a sport but at professional level its a business and should work as such 

[Lounge Room Lizard]

26 minutes ago, paul hicks said:

why blame the RFL for the failure of clubs to live within there means .

lessons learned yes make clubs live within there means and don't give in to blackmail from those that just want handouts . this is an entertainment industry and theatres and cinema's ect that don't make a profit don't stay open .

yes at grassroots its a sport but at professional level its a business and should work as such 

I blame the RFL for a number of things in the Bradford Farce because I think they could have prevented much of the mess thats happened as well as making things worse when taking on Odsal etc.

Clubs are often not transparent and often the fans are kept in the dark about the way things are happening at a club. Most fans have no idea what state their club is in, as the Club doesnt interact very well with them or in some cases nothing at all. A number of Clubs have had people involved that are people who you would not trust- Des Johnson, Feisal Nahaboo, Peter Hood, Mark Green for example. Nigel Wood, when CEO at Halifax, kept the fans in the dark and often upset them with his decisions with no consultation what so ever. A number of fans walked away never to return.

Most Clubs do not live within there means and rely on directors to keep going.  Even big clubs like St.Helens, Warrington etc spend more than what comes in and require "help" from directors for the shortfall. That is OK when the Person(s) pay for the shortfalls. But when they go and the Club cant afford to pay the Shortfall? And how many Clubs have had money problems in the past 10 years?

The running of a Sportsclub is unlike any other business. A Sports Club has hundreds, if not thousands of fans that are very demanding but passionate as the Club is part of them and in many cases their family over decades. Often these Clubs have a history within the local community  stretching back over a Century that sees them deliver various programmes to Schools and amateur Sporting Organizations in the area. The people running a Sports Club are responsible to keep that going and they are really only caretakers of a Sports Club.

[paul hicks]

7 minutes ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

I blame the RFL for a number of things in the Bradford Farce because I think they could have prevented much of the mess thats happened as well as making things worse when taking on Odsal etc.

Clubs are often not transparent and often the fans are kept in the dark about the way things are happening at a club. Most fans have no idea what state their club is in, as the Club doesnt interact very well with them or in some cases nothing at all. A number of Clubs have had people involved that are people who you would not trust- Des Johnson, Feisal Nahaboo, Peter Hood, Mark Green for example. Nigel Wood, when CEO at Halifax, kept the fans in the dark and often upset them with his decisions with no consultation what so ever. A number of fans walked away never to return.

Most Clubs do not live within there means and rely on directors to keep going.  Even big clubs like St.Helens, Warrington etc spend more than what comes in and require "help" from directors for the shortfall. That is OK when the Person(s) pay for the shortfalls. But when they go and the Club cant afford to pay the Shortfall? And how many Clubs have had money problems in the past 10 years?

The running of a Sportsclub is unlike any other business. A Sports Club has hundreds, if not thousands of fans that are very demanding but passionate as the Club is part of them and in many cases their family over decades. Often these Clubs have a history within the local community  stretching back over a Century that sees them deliver various programmes to Schools and amateur Sporting Organizations in the area. The people running a Sports Club are responsible to keep that going and they are really only caretakers of a Sports Club.

thanks for the reply cant say I agree with all of it but I do appreciate the reply 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

46 minutes ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

Mark Wilson (Forty-20) has posted on Twitter a Photo of a "Bradford Northern Rugby League Football Club 2020 Ltd" having been registered! The mess seems to get worse by each passing day. The sad thing is much of this could have been avoided. This whole farce is simply another chapter of the RFL and Clubs-not just Bradford Bulls- pushing fans away from the Sport due to the way they are run and do things. Any lessons learnt? No and no doubt such things will keep on happening.

Bradford Rugby League Football Club 2020 Ltd and Bradford Northern Rugby League Football Club 2020 Ltd were both registered on 19th August by Jonathon Charles Round (he has 29 directorships  with registered office address in Leeds). Looking through the list I'd guess he makes (or tries to) some money by registering names that he can then sell on eg he's a director of Henry Boot Homes Ltd.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

On ‎28‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 15:36, paulwalker71 said:

Yeah it was in the aptly named ‘Rumours and Gossip’ page on one of so-called RL ‘news’ sites.

Emphatically denied by John Kear in the Telegraph & Argus.

So it depends who you believe: an unnamed gossip columnist, or a highly respected coach who actually KNOWS how much people get paid... 

Although he didn't seem to know that the Bulls were in special measures....... https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/17868660.bradford-bulls-kear-39-dark-39-club-39-s-special-measures/

[Blind side johnny]

14 hours ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

I blame the RFL for a number of things in the Bradford Farce because I think they could have prevented much of the mess thats happened as well as making things worse when taking on Odsal etc.

Clubs are often not transparent and often the fans are kept in the dark about the way things are happening at a club. Most fans have no idea what state their club is in, as the Club doesnt interact very well with them or in some cases nothing at all. A number of Clubs have had people involved that are people who you would not trust- Des Johnson, Feisal Nahaboo, Peter Hood, Mark Green for example. Nigel Wood, when CEO at Halifax, kept the fans in the dark and often upset them with his decisions with no consultation what so ever. A number of fans walked away never to return.

Most Clubs do not live within there means and rely on directors to keep going.  Even big clubs like St.Helens, Warrington etc spend more than what comes in and require "help" from directors for the shortfall. That is OK when the Person(s) pay for the shortfalls. But when they go and the Club cant afford to pay the Shortfall? And how many Clubs have had money problems in the past 10 years?

The running of a Sportsclub is unlike any other business. A Sports Club has hundreds, if not thousands of fans that are very demanding but passionate as the Club is part of them and in many cases their family over decades. Often these Clubs have a history within the local community  stretching back over a Century that sees them deliver various programmes to Schools and amateur Sporting Organizations in the area. The people running a Sports Club are responsible to keep that going and they are really only caretakers of a Sports Club.

Before your post I had never realised that these people are involved purely from an altruistic point of view. Now I am much better informed, thanks.

[The Future is League]

14 hours ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

I blame the RFL for a number of things in the Bradford Farce because I think they could have prevented much of the mess thats happened as well as making things worse when taking on Odsal etc.

Clubs are often not transparent and often the fans are kept in the dark about the way things are happening at a club. Most fans have no idea what state their club is in, as the Club doesnt interact very well with them or in some cases nothing at all. A number of Clubs have had people involved that are people who you would not trust- Des Johnson, Feisal Nahaboo, Peter Hood, Mark Green for example. Nigel Wood, when CEO at Halifax, kept the fans in the dark and often upset them with his decisions with no consultation what so ever. A number of fans walked away never to return.

Most Clubs do not live within there means and rely on directors to keep going.  Even big clubs like St.Helens, Warrington etc spend more than what comes in and require "help" from directors for the shortfall. That is OK when the Person(s) pay for the shortfalls. But when they go and the Club cant afford to pay the Shortfall? And how many Clubs have had money problems in the past 10 years?

The running of a Sportsclub is unlike any other business. A Sports Club has hundreds, if not thousands of fans that are very demanding but passionate as the Club is part of them and in many cases their family over decades. Often these Clubs have a history within the local community  stretching back over a Century that sees them deliver various programmes to Schools and amateur Sporting Organizations in the area. The people running a Sports Club are responsible to keep that going and they are really only caretakers of a Sports Club.

Without the RFL taking over the Odsal lease and forwarding TV money in advance to the Bulls they would exist today.

Lets not forget about the strong rumours that the RFL paid the Bulls players last month despite all the help the Bulls have had from the RFL, they appear less than penniless.

[paul hicks]

1 minute ago, The Future is League said:

Without the RFL taking over the Odsal lease and forwarding TV money in advance to the Bulls they would exist today.

Lets not forget about the strong rumours that the RFL paid the Bulls players last month despite all the help the Bulls have had from the RFL, they appear less than penniless.

have the clubs that played at odsal in the cup rounds this season been paid there money yet I would like to know because that was one of the things brought up when it all began to unravel at odsal a couple of months ago . it did seem strange that Bradford had taken in all the gate money and I would expect ticket money that other clubs would have sent them for tickets yet did not seem able to produce enough to pay back what would in most cases be a small share of the gate money . 

[paul hicks]

12 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueMan said:

So there's going to be Bradford Bulls and Bradford Northern clubs??

good luck getting the RFL to agree with that crazy plan . question is which one do you go with because only one can claim the history of the present club 

[JohnM]

18 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueMan said:

So there's going to be Bradford Bulls and Bradford Northern clubs??

 

[Konkrete]

8 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueMan said:

So there's going to be Bradford Bulls and Bradford Northern clubs??

At this stage options for the near future appear to be:

1. Existing Bradford Bulls - playing out of Dewsbury (returning to the city in 2-4yrs )

2. Bradford Bulls under new ownership - playing out of Odsal / Horsfall / Dewsbury

3. Existing Bradford Bulls - playing out of Dewsbury AND a new Bradford club playing out of Odsal / Horsfall (oooh it'll be like FC/KR)

4. No Bradford Bulls (closed down completely with a new Bradford club playing out of Odsal / Horsfall

5. No professional rugby played either in Bradford or representing Bradford playing outside the city.  Team and club closed down completely. (many people's seemingly favoured option)

It could be that this is it folks.  The end.  It really could.  And when the dust settles and it's all investigated there will be some big questions to ask.

a. Who were involved officially and unofficially in approving and appointing the succession of potless clowns that ruined the club and, why were these people chosen above others?

b. Who gained financially from the sale of Odsal for development?

I wonder if anyone will appear on both lists...

In terms of the new companies being formed this month, company names don't really work like cyber squatting.  For instance, you could have this... Fev Rovers 2020 ltd t/a Leeds Rhinos B [I'm joking - don't sodddding @ me!!]

[RigbyLuger]

38 minutes ago, paul hicks said:

good luck getting the RFL to agree with that crazy plan . question is which one do you go with because only one can claim the history of the present club 

What history? We're told the Bradford Bulls 2017 has no link to the past, a brand new club!

[paul hicks]

10 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

What history? We're told the Bradford Bulls 2017 has no link to the past, a brand new club!

indeed in a commercial sense no history but in an historic sense a continuing link  and certainly no less so than the hunslet link to the past for instance or indeed a few other clubs 

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

Has anyone heard of Jonathon Charles Round before? Could be someone preparing to start a Phoenix club if all else fails.

[dkw]

4 minutes ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

Has anyone heard of Jonathon Charles Round before? Could be someone preparing to start a Phoenix club if all else fails.

Looks more like he`s an opportunist trying to claim a name he can then sell on. 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/17870318.andrew-chalmers-game-needs-vibrant-club-bradford/?ref=eb

Well that clears everything up.....

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

18 minutes ago, dkw said:

Looks more like he`s an opportunist trying to claim a name he can then sell on. 

Just done what I should have done earlier and Googled him. It's an interesting exercise, to be very brief he's Leeds based (as far as I can make out) and has or had multiple company directorships far more than the 29 stated. Also I notice that the two names were registered on 19th. August when Chalmers was still playing 'who blinks first' with the RFL and the council, which is slightly suspicious in itself. Looks like you're right about him.

[fairfolly]

He has actually been a Director of 2118 (two thousand one hundred and eighteen) companies and resigned from them all.He is based in Leeds and quite obviously has found a way to make money, whether legally or not I could not say.You can actually read the names of all of his companies on Company House if you can be bothered to scan through them all. I gave up after about 5 pages.

[The Blues Ox]

5 hours ago, paul hicks said:

have the clubs that played at odsal in the cup rounds this season been paid there money yet I would like to know because that was one of the things brought up when it all began to unravel at odsal a couple of months ago . it did seem strange that Bradford had taken in all the gate money and I would expect ticket money that other clubs would have sent them for tickets yet did not seem able to produce enough to pay back what would in most cases be a small share of the gate money . 

I believe Halifax got paid but I heard that it was by the RFL with an advancement of the Bulls central payments. If they have taken most of that money early to pay bills its easy to see why the RFL may be cautious.

[Bulls2487]

19 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueMan said:

Chalmers seems open and transparent there. Can't blame him for the lack of support from the RFL and City of Bradford regarding the state of Odsal.

"He is very thorough in his work, that’s come across to me all the time he has had the ownership.
“Without wanting to criticise previous regimes, this man has been more sincere in respect of the club and its business. He has kept things tight and that is so important.

This is also in the T and A in an interview with Simon Foster(son of Trevor Foster). Simon has close dealings with the club.

https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/17871392.farewell-trevor-foster-39-s-quot-heaven-earth-quot/

 

[dkw]

48 minutes ago, fairfolly said:

He has actually been a Director of 2118 (two thousand one hundred and eighteen) companies and resigned from them all.He is based in Leeds and quite obviously has found a way to make money, whether legally or not I could not say.You can actually read the names of all of his companies on Company House if you can be bothered to scan through them all. I gave up after about 5 pages.

I remember reading about patent sharks in America who basically patent loads of ideas but leave the description as vague as possible so they can sue anyone who creates anything even similar. I'm guessing this name thing is a similar way of making money. 

[Lounge Room Lizard]

6 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Without the RFL taking over the Odsal lease and forwarding TV money in advance to the Bulls they would exist today.

Lets not forget about the strong rumours that the RFL paid the Bulls players last month despite all the help the Bulls have had from the RFL, they appear less than penniless.

The Bulls/Northern should have moved away from Odsal years ago. When the first big problems of the Bulls happened, they should have been killed off then, as no Club could run properly with such a decaying ground as Odsal around its neck. In my opinion the RFL allowed too many dodgy charactors with no money to run the Bulls out of the millstone thats Odsal. Its clear they would struggle and would forever be in a mess unless millions way spent on Odsal. Odsal might be a famous Ground,but its a costly ground that is not fit for modern day use. Thrum Hall, The Boulevard, Central Park, Knowseley Road etc were famous grounds, but the Clubs needed a cheaper option and play in Grounds that were modern. This is the same with Bradford and Odsal. Sadly this was never done.

I would have much preferred the RFL to get land in Bradford with the help of the Council/ Sponsors and Grant Money and help build a Stadium with the Rugby League Museum in it, than waste the money on Odsal. Taking over the lease of Odsal was a poor decision that helped nobody really and will see the RFL lose money that needs to be spent elsewhere.

[paul hicks]

6 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/17870318.andrew-chalmers-game-needs-vibrant-club-bradford/?ref=eb

Well that clears everything up.....

so he starts off by abusing officials of the RFL over there weight  then spends a bit of time with stories of how he leans over tables if you can believe that . after that he goes on about Brexit and some half baked plans he recons to have but no mention of who will pay for them .

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

2 minutes ago, paul hicks said:

so he starts off by abusing officials of the RFL over there weight  then spends a bit of time with stories of how he leans over tables if you can believe that . after that he goes on about Brexit and some half baked plans he recons to have but no mention of who will pay for them .

Virtually nothing new except for what a great guy he is (virtually never a good sign) and he conveniently forgets to mention how he left the NZRFL under something of a cloud. No (I was going to say realistic but it really is no) plan for a quick return to Bradford, unless someone comes up with one (and no doubt pays for it) and very little regarding the 'special measures'. No wonder the RFL called him out on his plan to move out of Bradford for 2 years.

[Konkrete]

7 hours ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

The Bulls/Northern should have moved away from Odsal years ago. When the first big problems of the Bulls happened, they should have been killed off then, as no Club could run properly with such a decaying ground as Odsal around its neck. In my opinion the RFL allowed too many dodgy charactors with no money to run the Bulls out of the millstone thats Odsal. Its clear they would struggle and would forever be in a mess unless millions way spent on Odsal. Odsal might be a famous Ground,but its a costly ground that is not fit for modern day use. Thrum Hall, The Boulevard, Central Park, Knowseley Road etc were famous grounds, but the Clubs needed a cheaper option and play in Grounds that were modern. This is the same with Bradford and Odsal. Sadly this was never done.

I would have much preferred the RFL to get land in Bradford with the help of the Council/ Sponsors and Grant Money and help build a Stadium with the Rugby League Museum in it, than waste the money on Odsal. Taking over the lease of Odsal was a poor decision that helped nobody really and will see the RFL lose money that needs to be spent elsewhere.

How do you decide if the purchase of the Odsal lease was a financially good or bad decision for the RFL until all the monies are in?  They might make millions out of it, they might make nowt.

Need to wait til the music stops before sitting down Lizzy.