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3 Aug: SL: Catalans Dragons v Warrington Wolves (Merged Threads)


Who will win?  

21 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win?

    • Catalans Dragons
      14
    • Warrington Wolves
      7

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  • Poll closed on 03/08/19 at 16:00

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1 hour ago, St Reatham said:

Also, any professional player or coach who criticises a referee, should be encouraged to enrol on a refereeing course and ref a real game to see if they are any better.

And any ref who wants to make a decision on a pitch should play a full season of professional rugby league.

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Right finished watching the game.

Whole thing was very physical, some massive hits going in from both sides right from the start. I couldn't help noticing the number of high tackles in particular. The couple of cut out passes from Tomkins for the tries were fantastic, the first one (was it Yaha?) was brilliant, did really well to hold onto it, looked like the ball had slightly gone past him so great reactions. Catalans absolutely dominated that first 30 minutes, possession and territory must have been up in the 80% though there were a lot of Warrington handling errors so that will have helped Catalans along in that period. Didn't realise that stat that commentator mentioned about Catalans and goal line drop outs, something like they had had 35 in the season and only scored from 4 of them.  Warrington had quite a few players injured throughout the game; don't know if we knackered out last week or whatever but they have still had the usual week turnaround. Blake Austin's looked horrible, cringed when I saw that.  All in all, pretty enjoyable game for the most part.

Something I did notice a lot of was the Catalans fans booing Warrington players who were down injured. Happens all the time at any ground of course and is something I really hate to see. I imagine that won't have helped the tension in the stands. 

In terms of the biff on the field, there is fighting at loads of games so aside from the fact the last one was particularly brutal I don't think thats something to be too concerned about and cards were handed out and I'm sure there will be some pretty serious retrospective bans as well. I personally think Child handled the fighting pretty well, we have to remember he is just one small man in the middle of 26 massive rugby players, its an intimidating atmosphere and refs need a lot of credit for keeping calm in those situations.

Right, well, to the events in the stands. It was utterly disgraceful and quite frankly a horrible day for rugby league. I'm not a fan of Chris Hill but I do feel some sympathy for him when he was shouting at Child about ending the game and saying his family were up in the stands in the middle of that (other players saying that as well but I heard Chris most of all). If I had been in his shoes I would have probably completely lost my head so he's gone up in my books. When I heard the players saying their families were up there I was so worried and scared for them. I hope to God their families are okay. 

In terms of a course of action to take. Fans need identifying and immediately given lifetime bans from attending games and even criminal convictions I think. It is assault and has no place anywhere near rugby league in general. I also think the clubs should be deducted points (I'm not just saying that cos I'm a Hull fan and it would help us). If that was to happen it would really make an example of the idiots involved and certainly the majority of Warrington and Catalans fans who are decent people would really ostracise the people not worthy of supporting those great clubs. Imagine if a small group of idiots cost their team the title through a points deduction. This kind of strong stance needs to be taken to ensure this kind of behaviour is kicked out of the game quickly. 

I think thats everything. 

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4 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

The main issue in all of this is the fact that the violence in the stands has brought the game into disrepute. Warrington club officials must identify the culprits, publicly, and ban them for life.

sorry the game has been brought into disrepute by the action of the players on the pitch....

whilst deplorable behaviour in the stands adds to it, lets not deflect from were blame squarely lies in spoiling the game/sport 

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7 minutes ago, The Lad said:

And any ref who wants to make a decision on a pitch should play a full season of professional rugby league.

maybe but I don't see that it would make much difference... except for those that bellow to let the game flow and ignore offences...

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31 minutes ago, redjonn said:

maybe but I don't see that it would make much difference... except for those that bellow to let the game flow and ignore offences...

The point I'm trying to make is saying players should do a ref course if they want to criticise the ref is absurd, just because they have no ref certificate doesn't stop them from criticiseing them. Just like its absurd to say refs have to be players to make judgment calls 

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1 minute ago, The Lad said:

The point I'm trying to make is saying players should do a ref course if they want to criticise the ref is absurd, just because they have no ref certificate doesn't stop them from criticiseing them. Just like its absurd to say refs have to be players to make judgment calls 

ok,  I get your point now... fair comment

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This is just sadly a blown up scale of what happens both in and outside the grounds at many games. A few idiots at all clubs go looking for "Action" and are happy to be violent with or without alcohol as an excuse. A lad I know, Dave Singer, was left in a paralysed state and will never recover properly after being hit by a Featherstone fan for no reason. There are one or two idiots at all clubs including Championship Clubs that go looking for trouble. Sadly the game (RFL, Clubs, and Stewards often have ignored such incidents) and little has been done to find a solution to such incidents. I have read on here other posters having issues with others at Big Games regarding behaviour. Is Alcohol really the problem? Do we need segregation at games? What does the game as a whole , not just the two clubs need to do to stop such things happening again?

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9 hours ago, Celt said:

The lack of self awareness from a lot of Warrington fans online is incredible.

Browsing through twitter, Facebook groups etc, I am seeing comments like 

"English and proud. Brexit"  and blaming "the French" for pretty much everything. Either that or... "it was the ref's fault" (that we rioted in the stands)

The level of retardedness from some english Rugby League fans is truly staggering, and I say that as a Warrington supporter myself.  

 

Surely it was "football fans" again?

Isn't that the standard rugby league fan's go-to line whenever there is trouble and they want to sweep it under the carpet?

Any right minded Warrington and Catalans fans will be condemning those appalling scenes, not trying to blame and counter blame and say they started it etc, it was a disgrace and any Warrington or Catalans fan involved, or even, encouraging it should be totally ashamed of themselves and should be kept away from the game.

Generally, I don't have a problem with Warrington fans, I have always got on well with them, always meet up with some friends in the Kings head or in the looking glass and we talk about each other's relatives fortunes and the game in general, but the last couple of years, they have attracted a really nasty element to their support,  who seem more like the young, chavvy, wannabe football hooligan type than RL supporters,the females as bad as the lads! who seem to want to try and wind up the opposition fans in and outside the stadium ,I had the pleasure of these fans at Anfield who were foul mouthed, obnoxious, and were abusive to anyone not in Warrington shirts, I was sat with a couple of Warrington friends and received some right foul mouthed stuff from some of them, young and old,  also in the Kings head, where they were "mobbing up" trying to goad the Giants fans,one of this group, who all hang of the shirt tails of the lad with the drum also pinched a cowbell of an 11 yr old lad which was seen as "fair game" by some Wire fans, even on this very forum! , not to mention the older, steroid, cocaine fuelled gangster wannabes, Catalans also have a small unruly element, but I've never had any problems.

I've seen Wire fans saying how the French started it by "gesturing" etc, well be bold and brave enough to rise above it, I've had opposition fans gesture at me, in Perpignan as well as here in the UK, but i don't get the urge to go and charge up the stands to go and fight people.

Stop looking for excuses for why people misbehave and start condemning, and that includes the players!

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Just watched the end of that game.

The only adult in that ground who comes away with any kind of respect is James Child, he kept his composure surrounded by idiots on the pitch and idiots in the stands.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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5 hours ago, deluded pom? said:

The behaviour of probably 90% of Warrington fans in that video is disgraceful, you can clearly see people in the box wanting nothing to do with any trouble and holding their hands up to show that, but yet the thugs still carry on laying into them.

The rest are screaming obscenities, throwing the V's and generally acting like drunken scummy Brits abroad. I despair at any wire fans even trying to condone their fans' behaviour.

What a sad day for Warrington and for RL.

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5 hours ago, Wildcat said:

When we played Catalans in Perpignan last month there were a few Catalans fans in that top bit goading the Trinity fans near the end of the game.

Nothing too serious but it could have turned nasty - thankfully it didn't. 

The Catalans fans in and around Peprignan after the game were great though.

The problem with that is it only takes a few tanked up, out of control British fans to take umbrage and it kicks off, it happens at most grounds, but we don't see brawls like we saw yesterday, again, probably to do with lots of sun and alcohol completely taking over people and aggression kicking in.

I suppose it also depends on what kind of fan base you have over there, if you've basically got the 18-30 drinking and sniffing club then there's always recipe for trouble, it's in their nature generally.

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5 hours ago, Dave T said:

I think the point about cricket is a decent one. There are big differences in terms of the tribalism on show, but I do also think the player behaviour and aggression does overflow onto the terraces. 

I would also be annoyed if alcohol was banned, as I'm not sure it is the beer in the ground that is the issue, but the natural first step may need to be increased stewarding and policing to give the perception of a safer environment. 

I don't think cricket fans use the match officials as excuses to behave badly which seems to be epidemic in football and RL!

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35 minutes ago, St Reatham said:

The difference is that referees don’t lambast players or coaches who make mistakes.

A player is allowed to tell a ref his opinion, rugby league players are some of the most respectful when it comes to interaction with officials. I think the bad language that was heard was to do with the fact that a lot of Warrington players families where in the stands.

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1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

Yeah, I thought it was weird too.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I have nowt against Hull fans (even OF seemed a very nice man!), and have no desire to use any other club to defend any Wire fans.

The example was around context that there have been some issues with the Frenh fans in that corner raised by two other people in recent games.

There is nothing in me referring to Hulls game, no need for any offence to be taken mate.

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On the game itself, a good win for Catalans. They put on some good attacking moves and limited Warrington's opportunities. They had a determined attitude to win, one that is often lacking from them. That was awful for Warrington. A really hard game for them a week after a semi final, an injury to Blake Austin and possible suspensions incoming.

The discipline from both teams was absolutely shocking. In football, teams are often charged with bringing the game into disrepute or failing to control their players. I don't know if there is such a punishment in rugby league, but if there is it should be brought here. A number of high and dangerous tackles and other instances of real nastiness. The coaches criticism of James Child was also disgraceful, to deflect blame on to the referee for their players refusal to listen to the ref or play to the rules is shameful. They should also be heavily sanctioned.

The worst of all though was Kenny Edwards. The situation was volatile on and off the field and he was intent on creating as much trouble as possible. I doubt they will, but he should be punished internally by Catalans. Remi Casty rightfully reprimanded him on the field. Not the first time Edwards has done this. In the cup semi final last year, after Catalans final try, he brought the ball back down the field and whilst lining up for the kick off, launched the ball with force into the Saints fans, striking a fan. Yet no action was taken. Hopefully, this time it will.

It's hard to apportion blame for the off field violence having only seen the TV pictures, but it doesn't seem that either club has covered itself in glory. No doubt it will be just swept under the carpet and pretend it didn't happen once the initial aftermath dies down. Maybe banning orders will be issued, but in this sport due to a lack of police presence at games and the fact that you can pay on the gate or get advanced match tickets without providing your details, no doubt those responsible will be back before long.

We need to take a look at ourselves as a sport. At the semi final last week, a couple of Halifax fans invaded the pitch at the end, one of them ran past two stewards to get on to the field, neither of whom made any effort to prevent it. Maybe this will lead to us taking fan behaviour more seriously?

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37 minutes ago, The Lad said:

A player is allowed to tell a ref his opinion, rugby league players are some of the most respectful when it comes to interaction with officials. I think the bad language that was heard was to do with the fact that a lot of Warrington players families where in the stands.

What about the bad language and general bad behaviour in every other game then?

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We have an issue with crowd behaviour in our game. It is easy to highlight a lot of examples right now.

Ignoring it is silly and is making things worse.

I agree with an earlier point that it is hard for us to claim to be a family sport as much.

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31 minutes ago, meast said:

What about the bad language and general bad behaviour in every other game then?

It's a physical sport, people get hurt and tempers can rise because someone puts you on the ground and obviously you don't like it. As long as a player isn't swearing at a ref I don't see a problem and when I have seen that happen ref have dealt with it.

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1 hour ago, The Lad said:

And any ref who wants to make a decision on a pitch should play a full season of professional rugby league.

This is absolute nonsense, I refereed up to international standard without ever playing above Pennine league level 

"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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3 minutes ago, meast said:

What about the bad language and general bad behaviour in every other game then?

The attitude of players generally towards the officials has taken a nosedive over recent years. Some are still respectful, but they are a dwindling breed.

You are always going to get argy bargy between players - that's part of the game - but abuse of the referee is the thin end of the wedge. 

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50 minutes ago, meast said:

The problem with that is it only takes a few tanked up, out of control British fans to take umbrage and it kicks off, it happens at most grounds, but we don't see brawls like we saw yesterday, again, probably to do with lots of sun and alcohol completely taking over people and aggression kicking in.

I suppose it also depends on what kind of fan base you have over there, if you've basically got the 18-30 drinking and sniffing club then there's always recipe for trouble, it's in their nature generally.

Indeed, luckily they were ignored and there weren't any trouble. 

I suppose the point was there probably was some goading to the Wire fans - which doesn't help, especially when you

have spent a lot of money to see your team lose. 

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What about the role of the Captains? I haven't read anything about the role of the Club Captain's, above, apologies if I missed it some where but there's a lot to read through to get to here.

As I understand it: the two club Captain's, on the field, are the interface between the Referee and their own Players. The Captain's are duty bound to lead by example and to keep their own players in order, working in cooperation with the match officials.

(BTW - I'm not making any excuses and I'm not suggesting this was in any way a "defining" factor in what happened yesterday, just that improvement in this area could contribute to better matches and better outcomes in the future).

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