Two former Leeds and England stars struggle Down Under

[Manfred Mann]

It is not going as well as had been hoped for the two former Leeds backs now plying their trade in the NRL.

Ryan Hall's task was always complicated by the fact that the Sydney Roosters had also purchased former Australian winger Brett Morris at the same time as they signed him, while retaining star left winger Daniel Tupou.. Ryan Hall has had a few games, and has not made a bad impression, but also has not made an outstanding impression. Now he is suffering a knee injury which is keeping him from any chance of playing in the immediate future. At the same time  his replacement Brett Morris has been outstanding for the Roosters, scoring three first half tries last night in the Roosters 58-6 drubbing of the Gold Coast Titans. I think that Ryan Hall's best chance of getting his wing place back before the playoffs  is if one of the Roosters centres or full back are injured or rested in the remaining rounds, and Morris plays centre or full back, leaving the wing spot for Ryan Hall. The Roosters are looking likely to play in the NRL Grand Final, probably against the Melbourne Storm, and I am sure that Ryan Hall would love to be part of that Grand Final team.

Kallum Watkins has had the difficult task of playing for the Gold Coast Titans, the worst team in the NRL, and one which has no permanent full time coach. He has only played two games, but was left floundering in defence when the Sydney Roosters scored their first try last night. Watkins is lucky that for now the Gold Coast has no other good options in the centres. But playing in a poor and demoralised team does Watkins no favours. One hopes that in 2020, with the ensconcement of Justin Holbrook as coach, the Gold Coast will improve dramatically, and Kallum Watkins can have the chance to become a respected player in the NRL.

[Dunbar]

I've seen all of Hall's games for the Roosters and I think he has done very well. He has carried the ball very well which is exactly what Robinson wants from his wingers.

In a team like the Roosters where the full back and the centres are the strike players the wingers are not going to be the top try scorers in the comp (particularly right side as Manu is not a wingers centre and the Roosters favour their left edge).

I wouldn't say Hall is struggling at all.

As for Watkins... 2 games in for a vastly underperforming team is a little early to judge success or not.

[Oxford]

14 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said:

But playing in a poor and demoralised team does Watkins no favours.

Playing in one demoralised team may be unlucky, playing in two looks careless.

[DavidM]

5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I've seen all of Hall's games for the Roosters and I think he has done very well. He has carried the ball very well which is exactly what Robinson wants from his wingers.

In a team like the Roosters where the full back and the centres are the strike players the wingers are not going to be the top try scorers in the comp (particularly right side as Manu is not a wingers centre and the Roosters favour their left edge).

I wouldn't say Hall is struggling at all.

As for Watkins... 2 games in for a vastly underperforming team is a little early to judge success or not.

I’d agree , he’s done fine but they favour the other side and he’s not had many clear chances . As for Watkins , he looked like he was struggling at Leeds so whether he makes a mark I don’t know , especially at a poor club 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

They’ve both gone far too late into their careers. If both had gone 5-7 years ago, you’d likely be reading a different story about how these two have adapted well to the NRL. 

That said, backs tend to do less well when moving to the NRL. 

[eal]

England produces few backs who could ever light up the NRL. Who was the last one who excelled?

[Manfred Mann]

2 minutes ago, eal said:

England produces few backs who could ever light up the NRL. Who was the last one who excelled?

Martin Offiah?

[ELBOWSEYE]

Brian Carney did okay 

[Manfred Mann]

17 minutes ago, DavidM said:

I’d agree , he’s done fine but they favour the other side and he’s not had many clear chances . As for Watkins , he looked like he was struggling at Leeds so whether he makes a mark I don’t know , especially at a poor club 

But Ryan Hall has yet to score a try in the NRL, and yesterday Brett Morris scored three. That is a contrast that makes it very complicated for Hall, not to mention the coach Trent Robinson, who has to choose between them when both are fit.

[Manfred Mann]

16 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Brian Carney did okay 

Actually I had forgotten about Brian Carney. He was outstanding for Newcastle Knights. In fact he won the NRL's prestigious Dally M medal for Winger of the Year in 2006. He has to be rated as a great success in the NRL.

Pity he left the NRL because of homesickness.

[Dunbar]

Just had a look at the stats for Hall.

In the game that the Roosters play Robinson looks for big metres with the ball from his wingers and Hall has averaged 164 metres per game with ball in hand which puts him 11th overall in the NRL and 4th in the wingers, just ahead of his team mate Tupou and Blake Ferguson.

As I say, he is not struggling at all.

[MrPosh]

4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Just had a look at the stats for Hall.

In the game that the Roosters play Robinson looks for big metres with the ball from his wingers and Hall has averaged 164 metres per game with ball in hand which puts him 11th overall in the NRL and 4th in the wingers, just ahead of his team mate Tupou and Blake Ferguson.

As I say, he is not struggling at all.

No, no, it can't be that.

Someone's who's definitely not a troll told us so.

[Treize Hombres]

41 minutes ago, eal said:

England produces few backs who could ever light up the NRL. Who was the last one who excelled?

Gareth Widdop???....yes I know he never played pro RL here but there's not many to choose from.

Apart from Carney and Offiah I'd have to say Andy Currier and that's going back a bit. 

[Manfred Mann]

19 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Just had a look at the stats for Hall.

In the game that the Roosters play Robinson looks for big metres with the ball from his wingers and Hall has averaged 164 metres per game with ball in hand which puts him 11th overall in the NRL and 4th in the wingers, just ahead of his team mate Tupou and Blake Ferguson.

As I say, he is not struggling at all.

You make some very important points about Ryan Hall's performances.

However my sense is that Ryan Hall is struggling, not to perform well, but to perform better than his fierce competitor in the team, Brett Morris. Not only has Brett Morris scored a lot of tries for the Roosters, but he was highly praised by Trent Robinson at the end of his press conference yesterday. (see:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEOU5MWvo5I)

Morris is the person whom Hall is up against to cement a spot in the team. I don't know how the coach will choose when Hall recovers from his knee injury. It would be a shame for Ryan Hall not to play in the Grand Final, if the Roosters make it.

 

[Mr Frisky]

Poor initial post, I'm assuming raised without some basic research - 

Ryan Hall has played very well so far even though he hasnt scored a try. His meters gained and work rate after a late start due to injury has impressed most in the NRL. Most Roosters fans know he is class and will come good. Hes injured again but will probably get back into the team on his return.

Watkins has only played 2 games for by far the worst NRL term this season. Not sure what else he can prove in 2 games in such a bad team.

[Dunbar]

3 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said:

You make some very important points about Ryan Hall's performances.

However my sense is that Ryan Hall is struggling, not to perform well, but to perform better than his fierce competitor in the team, Brett Morris. Not only has Brett Morris scored a lot of tries for the Roosters, but he was highly praised by Trent Robinson at the end of his press conference yesterday. Morris is the person whom Hall is up against to cement a spot in the team. I don't know how the coach will choose when Hall recovers from his knee injury. It would be a shame for Ryan Hall not to play in the Grand Final, if the Roosters make it.

Those are all fair points.

But competing with world class players for a spot in the reigning premiers and doing well when you get the nod is not my description of struggling. 

[Futtocks]

32 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Poor initial post, I'm assuming raised without some basic research - 

Ryan Hall has played very well so far even though he hasnt scored a try. His meters gained and work rate after a late start due to injury has impressed most in the NRL. Most Roosters fans know he is class and will come good. Hes injured again but will probably get back into the team on his return.

Watkins has only played 2 games for by far the worst NRL term this season. Not sure what else he can prove in 2 games in such a bad team.

Given the above factors, what better time to predict disaster, doom and gloom? Such a shame that the Canberra contingent are letting the side down by being repeatedly match-fit and successful.

[Scubby]

Hall is injured at the moment and out for a few weeks. What do you want the guy to do? He's doing okay and had his first major injury of his career this time last year.

Watkins has been there like 2 weeks and Gold Coast are getting smashed. How were people rating Origin and test forward Trent Merrin on the first half of this season, or Tonga international Lolehia? 

Let the guys find their feet. Who remembers the difference between Warrington's Matt King in season 1 and season 2? Or Adrian Morley's average 1st season at the Chooks?

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, Manfred Mann said:

You make some very important points about Ryan Hall's performances.

However my sense is that Ryan Hall is struggling, not to perform well, but to perform better than his fierce competitor in the team, Brett Morris. Not only has Brett Morris scored a lot of tries for the Roosters, but he was highly praised by Trent Robinson at the end of his press conference yesterday. (see:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEOU5MWvo5I)

Morris is the person whom Hall is up against to cement a spot in the team. I don't know how the coach will choose when Hall recovers from his knee injury. It would be a shame for Ryan Hall not to play in the Grand Final, if the Roosters make it.

 

So your basing it all on Morris getting 3 tries, did he have to work for the tries or did they get put on a plate for him, did he do much else in the game, did the metres Hall make lead to bigger things ? How did they both do in defence ?

[OMEGA]

Martyn Offiah

Jonathan Davies

Garry Schofield

Andy Gregory

Andy Currier

Gary Connolly

Ellery Hanley

Joe Lydon

Jack Reed

Gareth Widdop

Paul Bishop

To name but a few . . .

[kiwis 13 6]

2 hours ago, eal said:

England produces few backs who could ever light up the NRL. Who was the last one who excelled?

add Gary Connolly to the list but again thats going back a bit.

[Denton Rovers RLFC]

2 hours ago, Manfred Mann said:

But Ryan Hall has yet to score a try in the NRL, and yesterday Brett Morris scored three. That is a contrast that makes it very complicated for Hall, not to mention the coach Trent Robinson, who has to choose between them when both are fit.

Morris scored three against a pitiful side, clearly it's beyond your capacity to grasp that Hall may well have scored three or even more against that quality of side!

[Mattrhino]

Just the usual Brits aren't good enough for the NRL tosh. Thought the myth would have been totally squashed in recent times. But still people peddle it. 

[eal]

British forwards are good enough, few British backs seem to be. Greg Eden was unstoppable in SL, yet in the NRL was reserve grade material.

[Manfred Mann]

3 hours ago, Mattrhino said:

Just the usual Brits aren't good enough for the NRL tosh. Thought the myth would have been totally squashed in recent times. But still people peddle it. 

Nothing of the sort. I am greatly impressed by the performances of Josh Hodgson, Ellliot Wihitehead, John Bateman, and even Ryan Sutton, at Canberra. And of course Sam Burgess and Gareth Widdop are genuine stars of the NRL. James Graham is highly respected in the NRL and among media commentators, as is, to a lesser extent, Tom Burgess.

I was just referring to the difficulties of the former Leeds stars. I never said that Ryan Hall has done badly, but my point is that he faces awesome competition for a permanent wing place at the Roosters from Brett Morris. Kallum Watkins, on the other hand, is handicapped by the poor quality of the team he plays for, so he may not get  a chance to shine until 2020.