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Manfred Mann

Two former Leeds and England stars struggle Down Under

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7 hours ago, eal said:

British forwards are good enough, few British backs seem to be. Greg Eden was unstoppable in SL, yet in the NRL was reserve grade material.

Greg Eden unstoppable? Is that a joke?

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The whole English backs failing thing isn't 100% true. Ryan Hall has been strong, just unlucky with injury. Joe Burgess struggled at the Roosters (in a poor year for the club) but was brilliant for Souths. And for all his critics, Sam Tomkins had a really promising first year in a famously erratic side, before injury ruined his second. Read here for some proof: 

https://www.nrl.com/news/2014/12/15/the-nrls-top-five-fullbacks/

Edited by ghost crayfish
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9 hours ago, eal said:

British forwards are good enough, few British backs seem to be. Greg Eden was unstoppable in SL, yet in the NRL was reserve grade material.

Greg Eden!

Eden was with Hull KR for 2013 through 2015 and in that time he was sent to Salford on loan and Gateshead Thunder on dual registration.

After that he went to Australia and played in the NRL for Brisbane where his strike rate for tries was actually higher than at both Salford and Gateshead.

Nobody in the English game would class Eden as a world class player... he is talented but has significant flaws in his game, most notably in defence. the fact he got a run in the NRL at all speaks volumes.

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13 hours ago, Scubby said:

Hall is injured at the moment and out for a few weeks. What do you want the guy to do? He's doing okay and had his first major injury of his career this time last year.

Watkins has been there like 2 weeks and Gold Coast are getting smashed. How were people rating Origin and test forward Trent Merrin on the first half of this season, or Tonga international Lolehia? 

Let the guys find their feet. Who remembers the difference between Warrington's Matt King in season 1 and season 2? Or Adrian Morley's average 1st season at the Chooks?

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a player have such a turnaround in performance as King did between his first and subsequent seasons at Warrington. He was awful in his first season and everyone was thinking what a flop but then showed his class in subsequent seasons. 

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On 04/08/2019 at 20:17, eal said:

England produces few backs who could ever light up the NRL. Who was the last one who excelled?

There’s only one Ellery Hanley . The Black Pearl is the Greatest Ever Rugby League player North or Southern Hemisphere

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On 04/08/2019 at 20:17, eal said:

England produces few backs who could ever light up the NRL. Who was the last one who excelled?

Well in the past we’ve had many, Hanley, Offiah, Schofield, Currier, Davies, Connolly, Myler, Hampson, Gregory, Topliss and a whole host of others going further back.

Ive got absolutely no doubt that there are many others who would have killed it in the NRL had they gone. Senior, Gleason, Drummond, Newlove, Briers, Robinson, Gill, Long, Hulme, Hunte, Duane, Shenton  and again others if I thought longer about it.

currently there are players who I think would make 1st grade and be strong performers Makinson, Grace, Lomax, Johnstone, McGilvary, Gildart, Percival, Ratchford, Shaul, Evalds, Handley, Sneyd, Conner and maybe Trueman.

Not to mention the aforementioned Tomkins, Burgess and Williams who’s already gone out there

Edited by OMEGA
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7 hours ago, OMEGA said:

Well in the past we’ve had many, Hanley, Offiah, Schofield, Currier, Davies, Connolly, Myler, Hampson, Gregory, Topliss and a whole host of others going further back.

Ive got absolutely no doubt that there are many others who would have killed it in the NRL had they gone. Senior, Gleason, Drummond, Newlove, Briers, Robinson, Gill, Long, Hulme, Hunte, Duane, Shenton  and again others if I thought longer about it.

currently there are players who I think would make 1st grade and be strong performers Makinson, Grace, Lomax, Johnstone, McGilvary, Gildart, Percival, Ratchford, Shaul, Evalds, Handley, Sneyd, Conner and maybe Trueman.

Not to mention the aforementioned Tomkins, Burgess and Williams who’s already gone out there

Tomkins did very well over there.

He played great and scored trys in season 1 then had bad luck with injuries in his 2nd season.

He should have stayed on to prove himself but to be honest he was at the wrong club. He should have gone to a Sydney club.

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In fairness I think every man and his rooster has been linked with a swap deal for Morris in the last couple of weeks. He wants to join his brother at the Roosters and the fact he is under contract at Cronulla seems to mean nothing!

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10 hours ago, OMEGA said:

Well in the past we’ve had many, Hanley, Offiah, Schofield, Currier, Davies, Connolly, Myler, Hampson, Gregory, Topliss and a whole host of others going further back.

Ive got absolutely no doubt that there are many others who would have killed it in the NRL had they gone. Senior, Gleason, Drummond, Newlove, Briers, Robinson, Gill, Long, Hulme, Hunte, Duane, Shenton  and again others if I thought longer about it.

currently there are players who I think would make 1st grade and be strong performers Makinson, Grace, Lomax, Johnstone, McGilvary, Gildart, Percival, Ratchford, Shaul, Evalds, Handley, Sneyd, Conner and maybe Trueman.

Not to mention the aforementioned Tomkins, Burgess and Williams who’s already gone out there

Spot on. Ever since I saw Andy Currier as the key man in Balmain's run to the 1989 Grand Final and then line up in the centre alongside Tim Brasher and against Laurie Daley and Mal Meninga I decided that any good British player could make it in Australia. 

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30 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Where have you seen that Hela? 

Was listening to an NRL podcast on the way into work with Mick Ennis and Braith Anasta on it. They spoke about Morris moving to the Roosters and that the Sharks had been offered a player (can’t remember who) or Ryan Hall as a swap, though both seemed to say that would be a bad idea. 

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6 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Spot on. Ever since I saw Andy Currier as the key man in Balmain's run to the 1989 Grand Final and then line up in the centre alongside Tim Brasher and against Laurie Daley and Mal Meninga I decided that any good British player could make it in Australia. 

Forgot to add forgot to include Brian Carey who had a couple of great seasons at Newcastle and won Wingman of the year I believe!

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You only need to look atr thge English backline when they come up against the Kangaroos - it is normally a total mismatch.  Factor in the NZers, Samoans, Fijians etc who are also playing in the NRL, and you can see why the English guys look so out of their depth.  

On the positive side though... at least Hall shapes up well physically - Pat Lane said Hall was the strongest guy in the squad on a number of tests, but other English backs in the NRL would be like a fish out of water.  (It is no coincidence that the 'best winger in the world' has not left St Helens.... nobody in the NRL would seriously want him (most of them have never even heard of him!)  - except Gold Coast, who will take anybody)


Rugby League: Alive and Handling

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3 hours ago, Celt said:

You only need to look atr thge English backline when they come up against the Kangaroos - it is normally a total mismatch.  Factor in the NZers, Samoans, Fijians etc who are also playing in the NRL, and you can see why the English guys look so out of their depth.  

On the positive side though... at least Hall shapes up well physically - Pat Lane said Hall was the strongest guy in the squad on a number of tests, but other English backs in the NRL would be like a fish out of water.  (It is no coincidence that the 'best winger in the world' has not left St Helens.... nobody in the NRL would seriously want him (most of them have never even heard of him!)  - except Gold Coast, who will take anybody)

Quite surprisingly Australia is a hot bed of rugby league and produce their own players. There is very little need to import UK players.  But as and when an Aussie club feels immediately short of a player they might buy in a NZ or an Islands or UK player.  Generally UK players do fairly well.

An Aussie club bought Hall who immediately got seriously injured.  It's hard to criticise Hall in that situation.

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If Justin Holbrooke selects Ash Taylor and Tyrone Roberts in the halves, and Brian Kelly and Tyrone Peachey in the centres,  poor old Kallum Watkins may not get a run in the Titans team unless one of the previously mentioned players is injured..

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Well yeah. Of course if the coach picks other guys ahead of him he won't get a run! 

But the coach did pick Watkins for this weekend's trial match. After a six month off season to get fit, I think we'll see the best of Watkins this year. I'm backing him to be one of the best centres in the NRL. 

As for Hall, I don't think anyone would doubt he was top drawer at his peak. A definite top NRL quality player. But right now he's in his 30s, his knee seems busted, and his speed is gone. If he can actually get into the roosters top team, he'll be doing well.

Edited by ghost crayfish
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6 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

 

An Aussie club bought Hall who immediately got seriously injured.  It's hard to criticise Hall in that situation.

Agreed - and Hall is a really good athlete for his age, as I said.

Sam Tompkins is another English player I had forgotten about (mentioned above) who did fairly well (after a horrendous start mind...) in the NRL. The vast majority of English backs though are miles off the level of an NRL team.


Rugby League: Alive and Handling

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On 21/02/2020 at 19:18, Hela Wigmen said:

Was listening to an NRL podcast on the way into work with Mick Ennis and Braith Anasta on it. They spoke about Morris moving to the Roosters and that the Sharks had been offered a player (can’t remember who) or Ryan Hall as a swap, though both seemed to say that would be a bad idea. 

Morris is not on the biggest money at Cronulla, but his value to the team at this present moment is far more than what they pay him.

He is still very good, reliable and can fill a gap anywhere in the three quarters.

Why would they swap him for a guy who is dudded with injuries? It’s a pathetic attempt to make a story.

Moreso, Morris is worth more to Cronulla than his contract. Let’s also remember, Roosters are desperate due to injuries. With $300k of salary cap still missing from the Sharks roster in 2020, if I was in charge, I would only be considering a swap if the Roosters came up with a solution to eliminate that handicap. That would include an additional player swap. One that does not include Ryan Hall.

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I'm of the belief that the top 20 best english super league players could all make it in the nrl. And by make it, I mean make starting, full strength match day 17's assuming they were randomly scattered throughout the 16 teams.

Only exception would be spine players (1,6,7,9) as they would have to go to specific teams with a need. 

Then even the next group of players from 20 - 40 could all make squad's and still play throughout the year. Just maybe not if the team is at full strength. Ryan Sutton fits into this category at Canberra.

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Ryan Hall is well past his prime. He looks like a journeyman winger. If he was a goalkicker perhaps he would find regular work as a reliable first-teamer.

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On 21/02/2020 at 11:54, Dunbar said:

Spot on. Ever since I saw Andy Currier as the key man in Balmain's run to the 1989 Grand Final and then line up in the centre alongside Tim Brasher and against Laurie Daley and Mal Meninga I decided that any good British player could make it in Australia. 

yep.... an example from 31 years ago, when the sport was basically part time.  Sounds about right.

 


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On 22/02/2020 at 18:27, AB90 said:

I'm of the belief that the top 20 best english super league players could all make it in the nrl. And by make it, I mean make starting, full strength match day 17's assuming they were randomly scattered throughout the 16 teams.

Only exception would be spine players (1,6,7,9) as they would have to go to specific teams with a need. 

Then even the next group of players from 20 - 40 could all make squad's and still play throughout the year. Just maybe not if the team is at full strength. Ryan Sutton fits into this category at Canberra.

"the top 20 best english super league players" reinforced by some english NRL players were recently pumped by Papua New Guinea... a motley collection of guys from teams like Doncaster, Townsville Hawks, Carcassone, Barrow, Burleigh Bears, Norths Devils etc etc.  The majority of them weren't even professionals.

If the top 20 English super league players formed a team in the NRL, then they would be a laughing stock.

There's a few English guys would do OK in the NRL, most of them in the forwards.  another bunch would get a game for Gold Coast, hopelessly adrift at the foot of the table.  The rest? Forget it.

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I think that Celt’s use of brackets earlier on this thread must go down as the most elegant in TRL history. You don’t get that level of parenthesis in the NRL. 

I was on the same flight as the Roosters this morning, and the few I spoke with about the Saints match all named forwards as being NRL standard (not that they excluded the backs, they just didn't mention them). As for Morris, field both with the same number for the Roosters and no one will notice. 

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