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RFL killing the game


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51 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

No but the whole point of the reserve league is player development above and beyond the amateur game. If a team don't offer that, what is the point in them being in the league?

No one is pretending Keighley reserves will be producing a boat load of future England internationals but what they are and would continue to provide is a pathway into the semi professional game for ambitious youngsters overlooked by super league academies. Why does it matter whether they contribute more or less to the game then NCL clubs? With the ever shrinking player pool in this country the RFL should be begging more clubs to start up a reserve teams, not slamming the door shut on clubs who actually want to run one.

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6 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

Twitter suggests Whitehaven have had their application for a reserve side rejected.

  This is Whitehaven,top of League 1,coached admirably by Gary Charlton,after their financial problems last year,in his first season,with a side full of local players,and now informed they will not be able to have a reserve side for their probable first season in The Championship.

Just when you thought the sport couldn't get any more idiotic after the weekend...

Presumably Fev and Newcastle won't have made the cut either? Hopefully the rejected clubs can put together their own mini league.

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1 hour ago, Angelic Cynic said:

  Those clubs with a particular grading of  Academy have to run reserve sides - as do Super League clubs - despite Keighley and Halifax managing to run a reserve side through the years when other clubs failed to do so.

  https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/284510-reserves-get-off-the-mark/

  The owner from the successful years in the 1990's has returned to Keighley since the previous owners got the club in a mess.

  They play their own players.Last season St Helens played Hull KR players in their reserve side.

 

Cynic also worth mentioning the South Wales (in the Scorpions days  ) for a good couple of years ran a reserve team as well - they got mullered pretty much but I'm sure a couple of the Raiders came through that system .

Also Fev , Leigh and the Eagles stuckk with the 2nd team structure as well 

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Every time I read stuff like this a little bit of my support for the professional side of the game dies a bit.

Mind numbing stupidity 

"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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Any word on Newcastle? There really is nowt up here for the competitive Academy side to graduate to. Well, between Thunder first team and Gateshead Storm that is.

And that is some gap...

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2 hours ago, Saint 1 said:

No but the whole point of the reserve league is player development above and beyond the amateur game. If a team don't offer that, what is the point in them being in the league?

So why didn't most SL clubs give a s==t about player development this season?

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2 hours ago, Davo5 said:

So how do clubs like Keighley & Halifax attract young players and keep existing players who are not in the first team if there is no comp for them to play in.

The main rationale for bringing back reserves was that players were being lost to the game at 19, as teams were having to prematurely make decisions on them. So this additional level gives a transition between academy and first team. The problem with the teams mentioned is that they don’t operate a fully fledged academy system so don’t meet this criteria. 

I’m with Saint1 on this, I just don’t see the point of teams who don’t run a full academy setup stockpiling players in a lower league reserves basis. You would have perhaps 4 teams in this league below so they wouldn’t be getting a lot of games which is pointless for the players and clubs and a waste of money, which could be spent on youth development/academy or improvement in facilities. The SL reserves will be far too strong for them, which is why they don’t want to play them. 

I have some sympathy for Halifax, given what they’ve achieved with their reserves and can see why they’d see it as a kick in the teeth but I would much rather these teams focus on developing an academy to attract and develop the next generation of players. When that has been achieved, then apply for a reserves again.

The RFL, as stakeholders of the game, also have to be careful that the likes of the NCL is not completely pillaged of players for a piecemeal reserves setup. There are already clubs struggling to fulfil games in NCL and certainly in the regional leagues so it doesn’t make sense to just pad out some lower league squads. Those clubs will still be able to attract young players if they’re good enough for League 1/ Championship level

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8 hours ago, BD20Cougar said:

Presumably Fev and Newcastle won't have made the cut either? Hopefully the rejected clubs can put together their own mini league.

Surely the common sense answer is to have a compulsory Super League reserve competition and then an optional Championship reserve competition (for both Championship and League One clubs)

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7 hours ago, DoubleD said:

The main rationale for bringing back reserves was that players were being lost to the game at 19, as teams were having to prematurely make decisions on them. So this additional level gives a transition between academy and first team. The problem with the teams mentioned is that they don’t operate a fully fledged academy system so don’t meet this criteria. 

I’m with Saint1 on this, I just don’t see the point of teams who don’t run a full academy setup stockpiling players in a lower league reserves basis. You would have perhaps 4 teams in this league below so they wouldn’t be getting a lot of games which is pointless for the players and clubs and a waste of money, which could be spent on youth development/academy or improvement in facilities. The SL reserves will be far too strong for them, which is why they don’t want to play them. 

I have some sympathy for Halifax, given what they’ve achieved with their reserves and can see why they’d see it as a kick in the teeth but I would much rather these teams focus on developing an academy to attract and develop the next generation of players. When that has been achieved, then apply for a reserves again.

The RFL, as stakeholders of the game, also have to be careful that the likes of the NCL is not completely pillaged of players for a piecemeal reserves setup. There are already clubs struggling to fulfil games in NCL and certainly in the regional leagues so it doesn’t make sense to just pad out some lower league squads. Those clubs will still be able to attract young players if they’re good enough for League 1/ Championship level

Fair points , and if we were coming into a brand new competition set up from scratch then I could be persuaded that for through your reasoning the lower league teams should not be part of it ,perhaps allowed a friendly league of their own ??

However this is not a new comp however the RFL want to dress it up 

The  bugbear on the RFL's decision is it's downright apathy for the efforts of both clubs to keep going and ,who lets be honest ,in the past couple of season if they hadn't provided willing opposition for the big boys, the reserve structure would have been all but dead and buried .For them them to be told sorry we don't want you now is a massive two fingered salute to all the players , coaches , support staff , volunteers and supporters who have worked their backsides off to put a credible team on the park  and have produced some cracking players , for Champ and L1 RL through the system .

I'm sure if the reserve set ups at lower levels are as bad as a couple of posters are making out , then allowing the smaller clubs in shouldn't have been an issue , if the tonkings come I'm sure clubs will see that they are out of their depth and act accordingly . (South /West Wales to their credit ran a 2nd string for a season or two but after a couple of heavy defeats gravitated back to their own regional league ).Natural selection and all that malarky ...

 

 

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So if Halifax are refused, and there is no reason that Fax cannot build on that semi performance v Saints and push for promotion in the coming seasons one thing comes straight to mind....

Are we definitely headed back to a closed shop/licensing/franchise call it what you will and one of the criteria is running a mandatory reserve team, if Leigh, Bradford, Fev, York get refused then we will be much nearer knowing the answer! 

Then what about TWP and Tolouse?

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10 hours ago, Rach said:

Halifax also been denied ...

Appalling decision , both clubs have supported the Reserve Team Structure for many years , particularly in Fax's case being funded and supported by supporter run iniatives ...

Both teams have produced a steady stream of players that have made their mark at first team level yet another kick in the proverbials for lower league clubs trying to develop from within ....

Halifax being denied is not good. I would have thought they would have been guaranteed. Surely if there is enough teams miss out then there is the appetite for a second tier reserve league?

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6 hours ago, Celt said:

An alternative could be that they play among themselves, but then enter a Cup competition with the 'proper' Super League reserves teams.  The Cup could (for example) start in groups of 4 allowing 3 games minimum.  Super League sides would only be 'contaminated' by having to play maximum 1 match against a part-time club.  The SL reserve comp could have its matches/schedule tweaked slightly to  accomodate this 'Reserve Cup'.  

The minnows could then be patronisingly waved off to play among themselves, and the rfl could pat itself on the back and congratulate everyone for 'doing the right thing'.  if 5 small clubs - Halifax, Keighley, Whitehaven, Thunder and N Wales Scousers (who i am pretty sure run a team already?) were to enter, that could mean 8 league matches, + 3 cup (minimum) = 11 games.  The league could also have a 1v2  'grand final' if it wished.  11/12 matches would be plenty, as the clubs would (i imagine) operate a tiny reserve squad, and include trialists and non-selected first teamers on a regular basis. (as well as academy kids in the case of thunder for example).  

Just an idea like.  (and i do agree with you that investment in facilities is also a priority that should be addressed).

Decent idea mate but, who is going to pay for it all? Out of the teams already rejected (supposedly as no word on some) I would say only maybe Newcastle could? I cant see Haven or North Wales for example being able to pay for it all of their own backs, even if they did get sponsorship. Very short sighted from the RFL who it seems are rejecting everyone outside of Super League. You would think they would want to encourage and expand the game..... silly me! This is the RFL we're talking about!!

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I get that there’s bound to be some anger and disappointment at places like Keighley and Halifax if it’s true and that both have been declined entry to the new competition taking place next year, but I am still a little bemused by such faux outrage there seems to be. 

My understanding is that both currently run reserve teams now and presumably do so without any additional financial handouts from The RFL and both have, if people here are correct, reaped rewards of having a development side. 

Both have felt they had a good chance of being accepted to join this new competition and subsequently made bids to do. They have, if rumours are to be believed, both been rejected from this competition for reasoning not (yet) in the public domain. 

I assume that joining this competition meant sides would get some form of extra funding from the governing body/bodies and I can imagine that for both, playing Super League opposition in reserve games is probably a nice financial boost throughout the year. 

I’m yet to see any evidence that The RFL/whoever funded either side and that either have to stop running a reserve side as a result of this breaking news. Both could continue running their reserve grades, it seems.

There hasn’t been a League for either to compete in over the last few years but both have found fixtures and I’m sure they could do so in the coming year, despite the Super League competition. 

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The source appears to be http://www.rlnews.co.uk/cougars-dismayed-by-rfl-decision-to-reject-reserves-application/

I'm scratching my head about this one, trying to think of a credible reason to turn teams down. On the face of it, the only 'reason' would have to be something to do with the player pool.

But are those lads who have been playing for Halifax reserves suddenly all going to be playing for Huddersfield reserves next season? Morel likely, they'll just be lost to the game. So what is to be gained by disallowing Halifax, Keighley and the rest? 

The cynic in me thinks that we are going down another step to some sort of licensing. They make it a condition that clubs have to run an academy and reserves, and then strangle the life out the clubs who inconveniently now run reserves (or want to). Eventually in two or three years time you're left with the chosen clubs, and the rest have withered on the vine

I'm starting to sound like The Parksider now...

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Its a shame that clubs like Fax who run genuine reserve grades and have for some time are being excluded. The solution it seems should be a second tier of reserve grade?

Its especially a shame with what has gone largely unnoticed/uncommented upon in this whole debate around reserves. The SL academy level is being reduced from u19 to u18. My own club have been against the return of a formal reserves comp for many years and have repeatedly said that our u19s are our reserves and the championship is where we'd like to loan out players to. In the new setup that doesn't change at all. So we'll potentially have some clubs running full blooded reserve teams whilst others are just continuing their u19s setup as lip service; all while clubs that want to be in a reserve grade comp are being left out. 

Personally I think reserves is yesterdays solution to todays problem but if clubs like Fax who have shown a commitment to the programme off their own backs aren't included I see even less of a point in it.

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Super League clubs running reserves means taking players out of Championship/League One clubs.

Championship / League One clubs running reserves just means taking players out of the community game.

This much was obvious. It's also obvious that the community clubs cannot afford to lose players, they're already struggling for numbers as it is. 

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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8 minutes ago, nadera78 said:

Super League clubs running reserves means taking players out of Championship/League One clubs.

Championship / League One clubs running reserves just means taking players out of the community game.

This much was obvious. It's also obvious that the community clubs cannot afford to lose players, they're already struggling for numbers as it is. 

Not for all clubs. In many cases it means just not letting them go to championship/L1 in the first place, for others it means keeping players on till they are 20 as they do now anyway. In fact, I don't think I've seen a case of a SL team recruiting a championship player specifically to play in their reserves, though I could be wrong.

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