RFL killing the game

[Marauder]

16 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

No great surprise there. Fillers at best.

That's the problem with the system, every team about will be on the take from below and the knock on will be players and clubs being lost to the game, the players who are left behind will re-surface playing pat a cake down at the local union club.

[Marauder]

16 minutes ago, Monkey Lover said:

Compare those kids in the Keighley Reserve squad to the Hull FC team below which put 50 on them early in July.

What benefit is it to either party? Most of that Hull team has either played Super League or is a red hot talent. They need to be tested properly against other sides of similar quality.

Kieran Buchanan, Charlie Graham, Ryan Johnson, Jack Bartlett, Joe Rustill, Ben McNamara, Kieran Smith, Jack Brown, Jez Litten, Elliot Townsend, Dean Hadley, Jordan Lane, Danny Washbrook, Harvey Gotts, Ryan Price, Ryan Langton, Ryan Devaney

It's a good job International Rugby Union didn't think like you because Nations like Argentina wouldn't be at the standard to give the top 5 union nations a game and even beat them these days.

[Lowdesert]

1 minute ago, Marauder said:

That's the problem with the system, every team about will be on the take from below and the knock on will be players and clubs being lost to the game, the players who are left behind will re-surface playing pat a cake down at the local union club.

I don’t think that will happen as wholesale as you suggest.  I know Hull are focussed on repatriation, for want if a better word, with Com Clubs if players don’t make it.  The amateur game is struggling in Hull and it’s not  in their interests to make it worse.

 

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, Monkey Lover said:

They will do. Hull FC is a step up from West Hull in the NCL but there is a lot of talent in the NCL playing for the top 3 or 4 teams in the Prem and the reserves is a great chance to look at them in a stronger comp..

Keighley Cougars Reserves do not have a single player to my knowledge that would get into the West Hull side or Hunslet Parkside team.

I am fully in favour of the reserves comp but not for just anyone who puts together a team. Next year the reserves is going to be a very strong comp with teams taking it seriously, those Yorkshire League players in Keighley's set up will get mullered. It is a waste of everyones time so the RFL have said no.

As soon as they step up your West Hulls etc will find themselves in free fall, players need to test themselves against a better standard

[Marauder]

1 minute ago, Lowdesert said:

I don’t think that will happen as wholesale as you suggest.  I know Hull are focussed on repatriation, for want if a better word, with Com Clubs if players don’t make it.  The amateur game is struggling in Hull and it’s not  in their interests to make it worse.

 

Give over, I've been around long enough to know that all the teams running a reserve side will use amateurs as stocking fillers, they'll also tell them not to train or turn out for their amateur club, it happened yesterday, it happens today and will happen tomorrow'

Not sure what type of form that these amateurs will be signed on while being stocking fillers, but at a guess it will be such they will not get paid or very little.  

[Lowdesert]

3 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Give over, I've been around long enough to know that all the teams running a reserve side will use amateurs as stocking fillers, they'll also tell them not to train or turn out for their amateur club, it happened yesterday, it happens today and will happen tomorrow'

Not sure what type of form that these amateurs will be signed on while being stocking fillers, but at a guess it will be such they will not get paid or very little.  

It will not be as widespread as it was - and you are referring back to the 80s and 90’s.  Sure, they’ll trial players but Hull specifically won’t do it to those levels.

Nzoungou is prime reserves fodder as he’s not ready for SL but Hull aren’t renewing his contract.  That shows they will be pushing academy to sink or swim and just because they don’t make it doesn’t mean they’ll be lost to the game by any means.

[Marauder]

8 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

It will not be as widespread as it was - and you are referring back to the 80s and 90’s.  Sure, they’ll trial players but Hull specifically won’t do it to those levels.

Nzoungou is prime reserves fodder as he’s not ready for SL but Hull aren’t renewing his contract.  That shows they will be pushing academy to sink or swim and just because they don’t make it doesn’t mean they’ll be lost to the game by any means.

So why did West Hull have a players meeting and put the question to their players, thankfully from what I was told at one of their games that the players in general wanted to play for Wests - As for being lost to the game, I said the ones with the lease talent at the bottom of the food chain would be lost to the game.

How much does an amateur club get for a player these days when they sign ? 

[Lowdesert]

8 minutes ago, Marauder said:

So why did West Hull have a players meeting and put the question to their players, thankfully from what I was told at one of their games that the players in general wanted to play for Wests - As for being lost to the game, I said the ones with the lease talent at the bottom of the food chain would be lost to the game.

How much does an amateur club get for a player these days when they sign ? 

Don’t know but there has always been a healthy relationship between WH and Hull FC.  Much as want to say.

The least talent, maybe, as the amount of clubs they could’ve gone to just aren’t there anymore. Local league is struggling.  Hopefully, with both clubs chasing players in their own right (not jointly through the recent arrangement ) there’ll be a push on getting school rugby running.  Hull recruited for this about 4 months ago and I believe HKR have done more recently.

[Marauder]

2 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Don’t know but there has always been a healthy relationship between WH and Hull FC.  Much as want to say.

The least talent, maybe, as the amount of clubs they could’ve gone to just aren’t there anymore. Local league is struggling.  Hopefully, with both clubs chasing players in their own right (not jointly through the recent arrangement ) there’ll be a push on getting school rugby running.  Hull recruited for this about 4 months ago and I believe HKR have done more recently.

That will be around 40 or 50 players taken out of the local amateur scene and maybe 10 or 20 from West Yorkshire as well = a vacuum below.

 

Because of the vacuum that will be created the RFL/SL should invest heavily in development, it's the only way around the problem that will be created and it needs to be managed with humanity and not just regimented.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

If rumours are to be believed and Halifax and Keighley aren’t included in this, I wonder who is? 

We know it’s the eleven Super League sides, Widnes, Bradford and five others but I wonder who those five are. 

Leigh? Featherstone? York? Newcastle? 

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

That will be around 40 or 50 players taken out of the local amateur scene and maybe 10 or 20 from West Yorkshire as well = a vacuum below.

 

Because of the vacuum that will be created the RFL/SL should invest heavily in development, it's the only way around the problem that will be created and it needs to be managed with humanity and not just regimented.

I don’t agree with those numbers and we have to factor on Foundations, under 16s as well.  Even if there was 50, who could begrudge a kid wanted to try.  

Even in an academy team with more than several representative players I was involved with there were many players who were never going to make it.  Clubs have to have these.  They have a shot, but even so, some better players still do not make it due to application - and I can name many of those too.

If Clubs Just recruited players who were the cream of the crop in every age group, we’d be playing 3 a side.

I don’t disagree with your last point but the RFL don’t have any brass mate btw.  It should be in Hull CC interest to assist both clubs but their pension funds come first.

 

 

[Gooleboy]

7 hours ago, DoubleD said:

I agree that it does look like a 2 fingered salute to some clubs who have persevered with reserves when others couldn’t be bothered. However, hopefully those clubs can either play informal matches or be encouraged to divert their resources to developing a pathway for youth (or investing in facilities)

Elitism rearing its ugly head.

[meast]

Don't worry, there'll be plenty of players coming through the academy and reserve systems of Toronto, New York, Ottawa, Belgrade, and Bolton-Horwich Bison-hawks soon enough .

In  all seriousness, is it a financial reason? player welfare etc?

[deluded pom?]

2 hours ago, Marauder said:

How much does an amateur club get for a player these days when they sign ? 

Does any professional team pay a penny for signing a player from an amateur club these days? A scandalous situation. Do they think amateur clubs run on fresh air?

[Oliver Clothesoff]

14 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

Does any professional team pay a penny for signing a player from an amateur club these days? A scandalous situation. Do they think amateur clubs run on fresh air?

The RFL give them money, no? 

[deluded pom?]

7 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

The RFL give them money, no? 

No idea Ol. The club making the signing used to have to pay a set fee to the local amateur league from where the player came from and it would be passed on to his amateur club or clubs on a pro rata basis depending on how long he spent at each if there was more than one. It was soon abused with some pro teams needing quick numbers and signing amateur players but never paying for the privilege.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

8 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

No idea Ol. The club making the signing used to have to pay a set fee to the local amateur league from where the player came from and it would be passed on to his amateur club or clubs on a pro rata basis depending on how long he spent at each if there was more than one. It was soon abused with some pro teams needing quick numbers and signing amateur players but never paying for the privilege.

I was under the impression that a Super League player’s junior club gets something like £3-5,000 once he’s made a debut. 

[deluded pom?]

33 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

I was under the impression that a Super League player’s junior club gets something like £3-5,000 once he’s made a debut. 

I’ve never seen a figure that high. It was in the hundreds the last time I recall.

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

I don’t agree with those numbers and we have to factor on Foundations, under 16s as well.  Even if there was 50, who could begrudge a kid wanted to try.  

Even in an academy team with more than several representative players I was involved with there were many players who were never going to make it.  Clubs have to have these.  They have a shot, but even so, some better players still do not make it due to application - and I can name many of those too.

If Clubs Just recruited players who were the cream of the crop in every age group, we’d be playing 3 a side.

I don’t disagree with your last point but the RFL don’t have any brass mate btw.  It should be in Hull CC interest to assist both clubs but their pension funds come first.

 

 

Don't begrudge anyone a chance, what I'm stating is players who will never make the grade will be kept dangling to fill shirts when needed as for the foundations, who has done the spade work to get the player/players up to that standard ?

 

My gripe is while the RFL/SL change the systems faster than their nickers they do very little in the general development overall, I agree some of the SL clubs do seem to have a good relationship with certain amateur clubs within their area, on that point RFL service areas used to direct the better players in a service area towards certain amateur clubs, which IMO is all wrong as it has resulted in the reduction in junior teams.

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, deluded pom? said:

No idea Ol. The club making the signing used to have to pay a set fee to the local amateur league from where the player came from and it would be passed on to his amateur club or clubs on a pro rata basis depending on how long he spent at each if there was more than one. It was soon abused with some pro teams needing quick numbers and signing amateur players but never paying for the privilege.

It was £50 for ever and a day, I believe Tony Smith while at Bradford had this up't this off their own back.

[deluded pom?]

44 minutes ago, Marauder said:

It was £50 for ever and a day, I believe Tony Smith while at Bradford had this up't this off their own back.

Tony Smith at Bradford?

[Marauder]

6 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

Tony Smith at Bradford?

I meant Brian

[deluded pom?]

Just now, Marauder said:

I meant Brian

I wasn’t sure whether you meant Brian or Tony when he was coaching at Huddersfield or Leeds.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

6 hours ago, Monkey Lover said:

You tell me which of these is good enough to play top 4 NCL? Which one gets in Hunslet Parkside first team as a starter?

You tell me what happens when this lot play Hull FC or St Helens reserves/Academy?

The RFL have a duty of care to stop kids like this getting hurt.

https://www.cougarmania.co.uk/copy-of-squad

The 'ignore' comment actually referred to what I'd posted in error but on reflection..........

[Angelic Cynic]

It does seem the piecemeal approach by the RFL doesn't just limit the frustration to players and supporters.

I have just read the press from yesterday regarding Sheffield Eagles.

Not only is the ending of the involvement of young players a major point - but the monies paid for stadia issues

https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/people/from-the-depths-of-despair-to-wembley-how-sheffield-eagles-have-overcome-hurdles-to-secure-cup-final-appearance-489055

After all,the RFL were involved some years ago concerning the stadia but it seems they hold no sway when it comes to getting things done.So the club suffer - through no fault of their own

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/whaling-slams-lying-sheffield-city-council/

The RFL seem to have different approaches,for different clubs,when it comes to stadia,academies and reserve sides.