Swinton Lions-Will they add the name Manchester into the official name? (MERGED THREADS)

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Is this really a thing though amongst the younger generation? The generation that we're supposedly trying to attract? Especially somewhere like Salford which has pulled in people from around the country to work in Media City?

People are more mobile than ever. They move around more, they commute longer, they have social circles that are more spread out. As a result, there is less "local pride" (or local parochialism, if you prefer). 

Look at commuter flows from places like Bolton and Oldham towards Manchester. There are people living in Bolton who probably do associate more with Manchester than they do Bolton because that's where they work, that's where their mates are, it's where they study and, probably more likely now, it's the where the football team they support is. It's not just a Manchester thing - London has consumed many of the towns and villages around it and in its commuter belt, whilst even places like Wakefield and Bradford have become a psuedo-overflow housing area for Leeds as the city has grown.

Drop a generation or two and people don't have that level of local identity where they'd get offended if you confused their local town with the nearest city. It's why communities have changed. It's why pubs and churches are closing. It's probably why there was a generational split in the EU referendum - because that sense of 'local pride', for better or worse, is less important to people as they become more mobile.

I definitely get that. When at Uni most people will describe themselves as being from or being near from x big city. It is a thing that is for better or worse though.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

31 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I definitely get that. When at Uni most people will describe themselves as being from or being near from x big city. It is a thing that is for better or worse though.

Just make it easier to locate.

"I'm from Swinton." "Where?" "Near Manchester."

Becomes... "I'm from Swinton, near Manchester."

Becomes... "I'm from near Manchester."

Becomes... "I'm from Manchester."

[Gerrumonside ref]

1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Is this really a thing though amongst the younger generation? The generation that we're supposedly trying to attract? Especially somewhere like Salford which has pulled in people from around the country to work in Media City?

People are more mobile than ever. They move around more, they commute longer, they have social circles that are more spread out. As a result, there is less "local pride" (or local parochialism, if you prefer). 

Look at commuter flows from places like Bolton and Oldham towards Manchester. There are people living in Bolton who probably do associate more with Manchester than they do Bolton because that's where they work, that's where their mates are, it's where they study and, probably more likely now, it's the where the football team they support is. It's not just a Manchester thing - London has consumed many of the towns and villages around it and in its commuter belt, whilst even places like Wakefield and Bradford have become a psuedo-overflow housing area for Leeds as the city has grown.

Drop a generation or two and people don't have that level of local identity where they'd get offended if you confused their local town with the nearest city. It's why communities have changed. It's why pubs and churches are closing. It's probably why there was a generational split in the EU referendum - because that sense of 'local pride', for better or worse, is less important to people as they become more mobile.

Have you ever been to Bolton and spoken to people about whether they are Mancunians?

 

[whatmichaelsays]

12 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Have you ever been to Bolton and spoken to people about whether they are Mancunians?

 

I've spoken to people who would never get offended or wound up by the suggestion because even though they may live or be born in Bolton, they work, socialise, spend most of their time in and, in some cases, more culturally identify with Manchester. 

Again, I suspect we're commenting on a generational divide here. As someone who was born in and currently lives in Leeds, I can also identify with Manchester, London, Dublin and Munich because I've lived and worked there. Personally giving yourself a local label that supposedly identifies you as a person seems pretty silly to be honest. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

4 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I've spoken to people who would never get offended or wound up by the suggestion because even though they may live or be born in Bolton, they work, socialise, spend most of their time in and, in some cases, more culturally identify with Manchester. 

Again, I suspect we're commenting on a generational divide here. As someone who was born in and currently lives in Leeds, I can also identify with Manchester, London, Dublin and Munich because I've lived and worked there. Personally giving yourself a local label that supposedly identifies you as a person seems pretty silly to be honest. 

People from Bolton do not self identify as Mancunians.

[whatmichaelsays]

1 minute ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

People from Bolton do not self identify as Mancunians.

You asked all of them?

[Gerrumonside ref]

1 minute ago, whatmichaelsays said:

You asked all of them?

Have you?

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Gerrumonside ref said:

Have you?

He's not proving a negative

[whatmichaelsays]

4 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Have you?

I've spoken to some who do identify more closely with Manchester than some of the outlying towns in which they live / were born. 

You're the one making the sweeping statements to refute that.

[Gerrumonside ref]

Just now, whatmichaelsays said:

I've spoken to some who do identify more closely with Manchester than some of the outlying towns in which they live/work. 

You're the one making the sweeping statements to refute that.

You started this with your own sweeping generalisation about how people from Bolton think.

Im just happy to correct that assertion that you are mistaken.

Bolton has a longstanding and proud separate identity to the city of Manchester - perhaps you were unaware of this.

[Mark]

I’ve been attending Swinton games since I was 3, I’m not 44. This year I’ve brought 3 replica jerseys for myself and one for my 2 year old daughter plus T-Shirts, season tickets, etc. I, like a lot of Swinton fans will not support a new club, basically they have just raped us of our history and used it as a vassal for a ego driven chairman to become manchester. We may not be many but we put our hearts and souls into the club, it feels like they have been ripped out today.  

[whatmichaelsays]

7 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

You started this with your own sweeping generalisation about how people from Bolton think.

Which sweeping generalisation was that?

At worst, the "sweeping statement" was the suggestion that local identity is less important to some generations than it is to others. You haven't "corrected" that. 

I've also suggested that there are people in places like Bolton who may in fact identify more closely with Manchester than they do Bolton for various reasons that I've outlined. You haven't "corrected" that either. You've simply made an unfounded "sweeping statement".

People can identify how they like - that's the beauty of free will. Thousands of people from Wakefield and Castleford travel to Elland Road and sing "we are Leeds" every fortnight - does that mean that they identify with Leeds or Wakefield?

[Robthegasman]

59 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

What do you think of the report that Swinton have changed their name to Manchester?

Well as far as I know nothing official has yet been announced so I will await an official response.

If it is true then I admit I will not be surprised given where we are and as it is very likely that we will never return to Swinton.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

59 minutes ago, Mark said:

I’ve been attending Swinton games since I was 3, I’m not 44. This year I’ve brought 3 replica jerseys for myself and one for my 2 year old daughter plus T-Shirts, season tickets, etc. I, like a lot of Swinton fans will not support a new club, basically they have just raped us of our history and used it as a vassal for a ego driven chairman to become manchester. We may not be many but we put our hearts and souls into the club, it feels like they have been ripped out today.  

It's hard to know what the future holds for Swinton as they currently stand though. With the change in funding of the professional game rumoured to be on the horizon, I cannot see Swinton surviving the cut in their current form. They have pretty much peaked as a club in the modern era (which sadly isn't that high). Being cut adrift would likely be catastrophic and could well spell the end for them anyway.

There looks like there could be a huge change in the structure of the game, and chairmen that aren't proactive will be left behind.

[Gerrumonside ref]

1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Which sweeping generalisation was that?

At worst, the "sweeping statement" was the suggestion that local identity is less important to some generations than it is to others. You haven't "corrected" that. 

I've also suggested that there are people in places like Bolton who may in fact identify more closely with Manchester than they do Bolton for various reasons that I've outlined. You haven't "corrected" that either. You've simply made an unfounded "sweeping statement".

People can identify how they like - that's the beauty of free will. Thousands of people from Wakefield and Castleford travel to Elland Road and sing "we are Leeds" every fortnight - does that mean that they identify with Leeds or Wakefield?

You’re just pontificating here about something you know very little about.

[Gerrumonside ref]

12 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueMan said:

It's not about the 'City of Manchester', it's about the Manchester City Region, two different things! The MCR encompasses the traditional city of Manchester boundaries plus the other 10 boroughs to make up 'Manchester'. It's the direct the city/region is going whether traditionalists who are stuck in 1978 like it or not...

Like I say, get yourself over to Bolton and start calling people Mancunians.

See how it goes down.

Then come back to me.

[owls]

in 1967 a large chunk of North Derbyshire was taken away and placed in Sheffield, most people at that time were against it,

even the local mp tried to stop it,

now the children and grand children  from the parents of that time don't even know that Mosbrough ,Halfway Beighton and Hackenthorpe

use to be in Derbyshire, they proudly say they are from Sheffield,

hard to swallow at first but in time Swintonians will accept being Mancs,

[HarrogateKnights]

6 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Is it proactive? I’d like to see more of a plan and more reasoning behind it than “a few sponsors told me they’d like it”. 

I personally think its a great idea. Swinton have proved this season amongst other seasons they are a decent championship team and can progress further. They have produced Super League quality in Matty Ashton who signed for Warrington amongst others. They have Mike Butt (Welsh international) who on his day is one of the best wingers in the championship. They have a great forward thinking board led by Andy Massey who isn't afraid of trying something new. If you were to accept Manchester Rangers in League 1 they would be entering into an already competitive area for sport, competing with Salford, Swinton, Oldham and Rochdale just in Rugby League for sponsors and spectators. With Leigh not a million miles away either. With Swinton a simple name change and you already have a fan base, infrastructure and competitive team in the Championship. Newcastle Thunder did it changing their name from Gateshead, it makes sense to do it for 2020. Manchester Lions is easier to sell as a brand and as a team.

[Mark]

2 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

It's hard to know what the future holds for Swinton as they currently stand though. With the change in funding of the professional game rumoured to be on the horizon, I cannot see Swinton surviving the cut in their current form. They have pretty much peaked as a club in the modern era (which sadly isn't that high). Being cut adrift would likely be catastrophic and could well spell the end for them anyway.

There looks like there could be a huge change in the structure of the game, and chairmen that aren't proactive will be left behind.

We have basically just become a franchise for a Leigh supporting chairman who believes his own hype. People at the meeting where he is quoted saying 80% were for it are basically saying it was 50/50 at best and no proper vote took place. If he wants to create a new club, that’s fine but at least be honest about it.  

[iffleyox]

26 minutes ago, owls said:

in 1967 a large chunk of North Derbyshire was taken away and placed in Sheffield, most people at that time were against it,

even the local mp tried to stop it,

now the children and grand children  from the parents of that time don't even know that Mosbrough ,Halfway Beighton and Hackenthorpe

use to be in Derbyshire, they proudly say they are from Sheffield,

hard to swallow at first but in time Swintonians will accept being Mancs,

Possibly,

alternatively you've got the merger at around the same time of Hereford and Worcester that was unpicked 30 years later into Herefordshire and Worcestershire again, the eventual re-emergence of Rutland from inside Leicestershire, the residents of Sutton Coldfield who won't believe they're in Birmingham, the persistence of Middlesex as a county despite not having existed for nearly 60 years.... People are a funny lot.

Jury's out on that one I suspect.

 

 

[The Daddy]

4 hours ago, Mark said:

I’ve been attending Swinton games since I was 3, I’m not 44. This year I’ve brought 3 replica jerseys for myself and one for my 2 year old daughter plus T-Shirts, season tickets, etc. I, like a lot of Swinton fans will not support a new club, basically they have just raped us of our history and used it as a vassal for a ego driven chairman to become manchester. We may not be many but we put our hearts and souls into the club, it feels like they have been ripped out today.  

The problem is and where yr threat falls down is that the people of Swinton are not supporting the club anyway. If they were the name change wouldn't be needed.

[Mark]

5 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

The problem is and where yr threat falls down is that the people of Swinton are not supporting the club anyway. If they were the name change wouldn't be needed.

Unless they artificially inflate attendances like they tried to do when Swinton first moved to Gigg Lane they will found out next year, our pridebuilder have already said most of the donations come from M27

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

4 hours ago, Mark said:

I’ve been attending Swinton games since I was 3, I’m not 44. This year I’ve brought 3 replica jerseys for myself and one for my 2 year old daughter plus T-Shirts, season tickets, etc. I, like a lot of Swinton fans will not support a new club, basically they have just raped us of our history and used it as a vassal for a ego driven chairman to become manchester. We may not be many but we put our hearts and souls into the club, it feels like they have been ripped out today.  

They move quick looks like the website is being worked on.

http://manchesterlions.co.uk/

 

[Man of Kent]

Struggling to think of a downside with this, to be honest. 

As someone who went through having a club moved to completely different location 70 miles away, this isn’t that. It’s not a ‘rape’ or whatever. It’s not as if Swinton even play in Swinton.

It gives the club a fighting chance of being relevant in the next decade. Otherwise it could be slow death.

 

 

[The Daddy]

Were the people of Swinton even supporting the club? No!! Then the club directors have every right to do whatever they think is necessary to ensure the club survives. They should move to Gigg Lane.