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Swinton Lions-Will they add the name Manchester into the official name? (MERGED THREADS)

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4 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Have you?

I've spoken to some who do identify more closely with Manchester than some of the outlying towns in which they live / were born. 

You're the one making the sweeping statements to refute that.

Edited by whatmichaelsays
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Just now, whatmichaelsays said:

I've spoken to some who do identify more closely with Manchester than some of the outlying towns in which they live/work. 

You're the one making the sweeping statements to refute that.

You started this with your own sweeping generalisation about how people from Bolton think.

Im just happy to correct that assertion that you are mistaken.

Bolton has a longstanding and proud separate identity to the city of Manchester - perhaps you were unaware of this.

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I’ve been attending Swinton games since I was 3, I’m not 44. This year I’ve brought 3 replica jerseys for myself and one for my 2 year old daughter plus T-Shirts, season tickets, etc. I, like a lot of Swinton fans will not support a new club, basically they have just raped us of our history and used it as a vassal for a ego driven chairman to become manchester. We may not be many but we put our hearts and souls into the club, it feels like they have been ripped out today.  

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7 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

You started this with your own sweeping generalisation about how people from Bolton think.

Which sweeping generalisation was that?

At worst, the "sweeping statement" was the suggestion that local identity is less important to some generations than it is to others. You haven't "corrected" that. 

I've also suggested that there are people in places like Bolton who may in fact identify more closely with Manchester than they do Bolton for various reasons that I've outlined. You haven't "corrected" that either. You've simply made an unfounded "sweeping statement".

People can identify how they like - that's the beauty of free will. Thousands of people from Wakefield and Castleford travel to Elland Road and sing "we are Leeds" every fortnight - does that mean that they identify with Leeds or Wakefield?

Edited by whatmichaelsays
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59 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

What do you think of the report that Swinton have changed their name to Manchester?

Well as far as I know nothing official has yet been announced so I will await an official response.

If it is true then I admit I will not be surprised given where we are and as it is very likely that we will never return to Swinton.

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59 minutes ago, Mark said:

I’ve been attending Swinton games since I was 3, I’m not 44. This year I’ve brought 3 replica jerseys for myself and one for my 2 year old daughter plus T-Shirts, season tickets, etc. I, like a lot of Swinton fans will not support a new club, basically they have just raped us of our history and used it as a vassal for a ego driven chairman to become manchester. We may not be many but we put our hearts and souls into the club, it feels like they have been ripped out today.  

It's hard to know what the future holds for Swinton as they currently stand though. With the change in funding of the professional game rumoured to be on the horizon, I cannot see Swinton surviving the cut in their current form. They have pretty much peaked as a club in the modern era (which sadly isn't that high). Being cut adrift would likely be catastrophic and could well spell the end for them anyway.

There looks like there could be a huge change in the structure of the game, and chairmen that aren't proactive will be left behind.

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1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Which sweeping generalisation was that?

At worst, the "sweeping statement" was the suggestion that local identity is less important to some generations than it is to others. You haven't "corrected" that. 

I've also suggested that there are people in places like Bolton who may in fact identify more closely with Manchester than they do Bolton for various reasons that I've outlined. You haven't "corrected" that either. You've simply made an unfounded "sweeping statement".

People can identify how they like - that's the beauty of free will. Thousands of people from Wakefield and Castleford travel to Elland Road and sing "we are Leeds" every fortnight - does that mean that they identify with Leeds or Wakefield?

You’re just pontificating here about something you know very little about.

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12 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueMan said:

It's not about the 'City of Manchester', it's about the Manchester City Region, two different things! The MCR encompasses the traditional city of Manchester boundaries plus the other 10 boroughs to make up 'Manchester'. It's the direct the city/region is going whether traditionalists who are stuck in 1978 like it or not...

Like I say, get yourself over to Bolton and start calling people Mancunians.

See how it goes down.

Then come back to me.

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in 1967 a large chunk of North Derbyshire was taken away and placed in Sheffield, most people at that time were against it,

even the local mp tried to stop it,

now the children and grand children  from the parents of that time don't even know that Mosbrough ,Halfway Beighton and Hackenthorpe

use to be in Derbyshire, they proudly say they are from Sheffield,

hard to swallow at first but in time Swintonians will accept being Mancs,

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6 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Is it proactive? I’d like to see more of a plan and more reasoning behind it than “a few sponsors told me they’d like it”. 

I personally think its a great idea. Swinton have proved this season amongst other seasons they are a decent championship team and can progress further. They have produced Super League quality in Matty Ashton who signed for Warrington amongst others. They have Mike Butt (Welsh international) who on his day is one of the best wingers in the championship. They have a great forward thinking board led by Andy Massey who isn't afraid of trying something new. If you were to accept Manchester Rangers in League 1 they would be entering into an already competitive area for sport, competing with Salford, Swinton, Oldham and Rochdale just in Rugby League for sponsors and spectators. With Leigh not a million miles away either. With Swinton a simple name change and you already have a fan base, infrastructure and competitive team in the Championship. Newcastle Thunder did it changing their name from Gateshead, it makes sense to do it for 2020. Manchester Lions is easier to sell as a brand and as a team.

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2 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

It's hard to know what the future holds for Swinton as they currently stand though. With the change in funding of the professional game rumoured to be on the horizon, I cannot see Swinton surviving the cut in their current form. They have pretty much peaked as a club in the modern era (which sadly isn't that high). Being cut adrift would likely be catastrophic and could well spell the end for them anyway.

There looks like there could be a huge change in the structure of the game, and chairmen that aren't proactive will be left behind.

We have basically just become a franchise for a Leigh supporting chairman who believes his own hype. People at the meeting where he is quoted saying 80% were for it are basically saying it was 50/50 at best and no proper vote took place. If he wants to create a new club, that’s fine but at least be honest about it.  

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26 minutes ago, owls said:

in 1967 a large chunk of North Derbyshire was taken away and placed in Sheffield, most people at that time were against it,

even the local mp tried to stop it,

now the children and grand children  from the parents of that time don't even know that Mosbrough ,Halfway Beighton and Hackenthorpe

use to be in Derbyshire, they proudly say they are from Sheffield,

hard to swallow at first but in time Swintonians will accept being Mancs,

Possibly,

alternatively you've got the merger at around the same time of Hereford and Worcester that was unpicked 30 years later into Herefordshire and Worcestershire again, the eventual re-emergence of Rutland from inside Leicestershire, the residents of Sutton Coldfield who won't believe they're in Birmingham, the persistence of Middlesex as a county despite not having existed for nearly 60 years.... People are a funny lot.

Jury's out on that one I suspect.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Mark said:

I’ve been attending Swinton games since I was 3, I’m not 44. This year I’ve brought 3 replica jerseys for myself and one for my 2 year old daughter plus T-Shirts, season tickets, etc. I, like a lot of Swinton fans will not support a new club, basically they have just raped us of our history and used it as a vassal for a ego driven chairman to become manchester. We may not be many but we put our hearts and souls into the club, it feels like they have been ripped out today.  

The problem is and where yr threat falls down is that the people of Swinton are not supporting the club anyway. If they were the name change wouldn't be needed.

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5 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

The problem is and where yr threat falls down is that the people of Swinton are not supporting the club anyway. If they were the name change wouldn't be needed.

Unless they artificially inflate attendances like they tried to do when Swinton first moved to Gigg Lane they will found out next year, our pridebuilder have already said most of the donations come from M27

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"When you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose; it's how drunk you get." -Homer Simpson

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"I couldn't be more chuffed if I were a badger at the start of the mating season" Ian Holloway

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4 hours ago, Mark said:

I’ve been attending Swinton games since I was 3, I’m not 44. This year I’ve brought 3 replica jerseys for myself and one for my 2 year old daughter plus T-Shirts, season tickets, etc. I, like a lot of Swinton fans will not support a new club, basically they have just raped us of our history and used it as a vassal for a ego driven chairman to become manchester. We may not be many but we put our hearts and souls into the club, it feels like they have been ripped out today.  

They move quick looks like the website is being worked on.

http://manchesterlions.co.uk/

 

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Struggling to think of a downside with this, to be honest. 

As someone who went through having a club moved to completely different location 70 miles away, this isn’t that. It’s not a ‘rape’ or whatever. It’s not as if Swinton even play in Swinton.

It gives the club a fighting chance of being relevant in the next decade. Otherwise it could be slow death.

 

 

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Were the people of Swinton even supporting the club? No!! Then the club directors have every right to do whatever they think is necessary to ensure the club survives. They should move to Gigg Lane. 

Edited by The Daddy

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I don’t as of yet know the full facts about this but if as I suspect this is the case well I do think that this is inevitable,and if we are honest it has probably been inevitable for a long time.

Whether we like it or not I think the circumstances dictate that this is going to happen.

And let’s face it and especially as the Manchester United fans(and I am one)know Newton Heath was how they started out as before the name change and subsequent move to Old Trafford.It certainly worked for them and it could work for Swinton Lions Maybe soon to be Manchester Lions.

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17 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

Were the people of Swinton even supporting the club? No!! Then the club directors have every right to do whatever they think is necessary to ensure the club survives. They should move to Gigg Lane. 

Simple answer No even years ago so I believe 

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1 hour ago, iffleyox said:

Possibly,

alternatively you've got the merger at around the same time of Hereford and Worcester that was unpicked 30 years later into Herefordshire and Worcestershire again, the eventual re-emergence of Rutland from inside Leicestershire, the residents of Sutton Coldfield who won't believe they're in Birmingham, the persistence of Middlesex as a county despite not having existed for nearly 60 years.... People are a funny lot.

Jury's out on that one I suspect.

 

 

On the one hand, you've got gallant folk in Hull and Middlesbrough fighting for years to get back into Yorkshire.  On the other, you've folk claiming "Oh no, we're from Cheshire/Cumbria/Greater Manchester/Merseyside". 

There are still Yorkshire folk today living under the jackboot of occupation by Durham, Cumbria and Greater Manchester.  That "Welcome to Durham" sign on the A66 annoys me no end - no part of Durham is south of the Tees.


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4 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

It's hard to know what the future holds for Swinton as they currently stand though. With the change in funding of the professional game rumoured to be on the horizon, I cannot see Swinton surviving the cut in their current form. They have pretty much peaked as a club in the modern era (which sadly isn't that high). Being cut adrift would likely be catastrophic and could well spell the end for them anyway.

There looks like there could be a huge change in the structure of the game, and chairmen that aren't proactive will be left behind.

Surviving which cut?

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I think that a few things have brought it to this.We do not play in Swinton and haven’t done for 27 years.And I don’t think we ever will return sadly.

Then there is the changes that are coming in Rugby League outside Super League where there will in all likelihood be no central funding for clubs like Swinton so in order for them to survive they need to find at least say £350K-£400K(Min)from other sources to not only replace the loss of central funding but to ensure they can stand on their own two feet.Can a stand alone Swinton Lions do that when they play out of town?I doubt it and I question if they could if they still played in Swinton in honesty.They might,they might not.Now as a Manchester club it might bring in new sponsors,more and new support hopefully with the existing support(please don’t turn your backs whatever happens fellow fans)and money but could it be that the possibilities are greater if they were?

Then it also seems that the future of this game,certainly outside of Super League will be more city/city region based so will any new potential competition or their broadcast partners want small town based clubs in it?From what I gather they might not.

So mix those ingredients together and it seems now that the Swinton club has come to a crossroads and a decision and change in honesty needs to happen if the club is to survive.A stand alone Swinton Lions I think sadly in all likelihood would probably die at the end of 2021 or become amateur,a newly named say Manchester Lions might prosper and take off because the name would potentially attract a bigger audience etc etc. Yes it would be a risk but I take a risk every day when I cross the road especially with what I think is gout(not nice)currently in my left ankle that I could misjudge the road and get knocked down,seriously injured or killed,so for Swinton Lions as they currently are which is the bigger risk?Could renaming make the club into something bigger and stronger and one day successful?

I think if we do become Manchester Lions without the Swinton name in it, I don’t necessarily see it as the end as Newton Heath LYR Football Club eventually became Manchester United(my team football wise for my sins and Glazers Out)in 1902 But Newton Heath was always there and will always be a part of it.And I think Swinton will always be a part of any Manchester Lions club/brand.

And if we do become Manchester Lions I will support them as quite honestly if I didn’t I would be a hypocrite as I support Manchester United football wise and I might be all sorts to those who know me for good and bad but I tell you all who read this what I am NOT and that is a hypocrite.

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Have you ever been to Bolton and spoken to people about whether they are Mancunians?

 

I know what the reply would be 😀

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