CC final attendance

[Dave T]

Has anybody received any Groupon or RFL discount for this in the last couple of weeks?

Ignore the cheap tickets sold by clubs, that is a different thing.

 

[whatmichaelsays]

Just now, Dave T said:

Has anybody received any Groupon or RFL discount for this in the last couple of weeks?

Ignore the cheap tickets sold by clubs, that is a different thing.

 

I got one on Tuesday. 10% off with the code LAST CHANCE

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I got one on Tuesday. 10% off with the code LAST CHANCE

Yes, I recall that one, sat in my inbox too.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

1 hour ago, Lobbygobbler said:

Emails and texts are a waste of time.

A big tube/bus billboard campaign and tv ads in London are the answer

This isn’t where we should be spending cash on marketing IMO.

We need targeted ads online using social media, with links to buy tickets there and then.

[EssexRL]

8 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

This isn’t where we should be spending cash on marketing IMO.

We need targeted ads online using social media, with links to buy tickets there and then.

...plus trying to get stories in local media. The Cup sponsor has presence on high streets so could be a free site for advertising. 

[RP London]

40 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

GDPR doesn't in itself prevent companies from doing email marketing. What it does do is demand that companies know and evidence where they got that data from for that email marketing and that they have permission to use it for those purposes.

The reason why so many companies were sending out "do you want to stay on our mailing list?" emails before it came into force is because they didn't have the paper trail to prove that they could satisfy that criteria - either because they'd bought lists, mis-led people into opting-in (confusing tick boxes for example) or because they didn't sufficiently log permissions. 

The RFL should know where it gets its data from. I can't believe that it has bought-in lists (unless there has been data-sharing from clubs, but this should have been declared when the RFL and clubs were collecting that data) so if it genuinely believes that it can't email people that were on its database, then there are two likely reasons; either it has poorly managed its CRM database and can't prove that it has permission to use it, or it has misinterpreted the GDPR regulations. 

However, what GDPR doesn't prevent is using the data it holds to build an audience. It can, for example, use that audience to create 'lookalike' audiences on Facebook or Instagram and advertise to them. It doesn't prevent them from using demographic audience profiling data to build audience personas. It doesn't stop them sending players down to London to drum up support and it doesn't stop them holding interviews with the media. There's actually very little it does stop them doing. 

As for the point about using a marketing agency, it would be touch-and-go as to whether that would pay for itself for the CC Final in isolation (and remember, the Grand Final and Magic Weekend are not an RFL properties any more).

If we assume that the base level for a CC Final with two English teams is around 60k (roughly the attendance when Sheffield played Wigan), that leaves around 25-30k tickets to sell. Assuming an average of around £30 a ticket, that's a potential £900k of additional pre-tax revenue. I've got no idea what the costs of Wembley and putting on the event are when you amortise on a per-ticket basis, so I'll leave that out for now. 

However, I can't imagine that the margin on a £24(+VAT) ticket provides you with much leeway to pay for much in the way of media spend and creative as it is, never mind the various agency fees. On media spend, most decent paid-media agencies will be working on a management fee of around 12% of media spend at least whilst on creative, you're paying a not insignificant hourly rate for those ideas and the research behind them. Agencies aren't cheap.

Personally, I'd much rather see the RFL just try and get the basics right first. I genuinely don't think they've even got the four P's right any more. I don't think the product is right when you consider what a modern sports-goer expects (entertainment, fan parks, etc). I don't think they've got the placement right (why hide all of the content on Our League or only where existing fans can find it?). The promotion is pitiful and I don't even think they've got the pricing right any more - as a regular fan, I know that if I hold off long enough, a discount code will soon turn up in my inbox or on Groupon. Either this is the premium, must-see, blue ribboned event that we keep being told it is, or it's a Sports Direct "stack it high, sell it cheap, closing down, everything must go" sell-off. It can't be both. 

If Red Hall can genuinely say that it is getting all of those right and things still aren't working then fine, bring in the consultants. But if you bring them before you have those things ready, you're going to pay them a lot of money just to get you to the position you should have been in before you gave them the call. 

GDPR is a convenient excuse for all that is wrong.. but GDPR was simply an exercise in cleaning up a messy business. as you say it does all the above which is about traceability and "opting in" but its key was about how you stored personal data and what happens in the event someone nicks it all.. which is hugely important but has nowt to do with mailing lists. 

As has been mentioned over and over though.. its not just mailing lists its all sorts of ways to get infront of people... social media etc.. email marketing is probably less effective than we think simply because of the sheer volume of spam that comes in, if you are interested in the subject/company you will check the email if not you are likely to delete without reading or unsubscribe.. i get loads from companies and they very rarely get me to click through on anything. Social media is a key to getting through. Short, Sharp, in your face (ie you don't have to actively open the email it is a picture and a link on your feed, you may not like it or do anything about it but you have seen it). 

I agree with pretty much everything you say above though (except i do think there is a place for cheaper tickets but it is not in the last ditch effort and everyone is simply waiting for it to happen, its early on). 

[wilsontown]

2 hours ago, cookey said:

It would be nice and appropriate if Totalrl would ask what promotion the RFL do for the Challenge Cup Final. However,the answer is that we send e-mails and texts to people already on our mailing lists.

I got an e-mail from the RFL about the final, but that seems to be only because I had already bought a ticket.

Yes, I had remembered that I was meant to be going, thanks all the same.

[whatmichaelsays]

7 minutes ago, RP London said:

I agree with pretty much everything you say above though (except i do think there is a place for cheaper tickets but it is not in the last ditch effort and everyone is simply waiting for it to happen, its early on). 

I agree that there is a place for discounted tickets, but they have become the default option for both the RFL and many clubs. 

Tactical offers should be just that - tactical. They should be focused on specific groups and demographics - ones that we believe can be turned into full-price customers in the long term. 

But too much of the supporter base has got wise to how this works. There is no FOMO to get you to buy a ticket early and you know that, as the desperation kicks in at Red Hall, the discount codes will come out of hibernation for another year. 

The whole sport has been cheapened by this approach and it's a problem both at RFL and club level. 

[RP London]

3 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I agree that there is a place for discounted tickets, but they have become the default option for both the RFL and many clubs. 

Tactical offers should be just that - tactical. They should be focused on specific groups and demographics - ones that we believe can be turned into full-price customers in the long term. 

But too much of the supporter base has got wise to how this works. There is no FOMO to get you to buy a ticket early and you know that, as the desperation kicks in at Red Hall, the discount codes will come out of hibernation for another year. 

The whole sport has been cheapened by this approach and it's a problem both at RFL and club level. 

i totally agree... 

[Dr Tim Whatley]

1 hour ago, EssexRL said:

...plus trying to get stories in local media. The Cup sponsor has presence on high streets so could be a free site for advertising. 

Not seen anything in Coral windows yet, or indeed any mention in their shops.

[Manx RL]

The final this year has a page promoting it on VisitLondon which is an initiative supported by the London Mayor. That’s a website with a significant reach and diverse audience.

https://www.visitlondon.com/things-to-do/event/44359239-coral-challenge-cup-final-at-wembley-stadium

[IM2]

i also saw that it was being promoted on an email from pitchero website provider. id seen they had done it for loads of union games and i sent an email to the RFL and they acted on it. good on them!

[saintspete83]

2 hours ago, Manx RL said:

The final this year has a page promoting it on VisitLondon which is an initiative supported by the London Mayor. That’s a website with a significant reach and diverse audience.

https://www.visitlondon.com/things-to-do/event/44359239-coral-challenge-cup-final-at-wembley-stadium

Good to see the RFL supplied them with a picture that had the most empty seats on it. 

[Manx RL]

3 minutes ago, saintspete83 said:

Good to see the RFL supplied them with a picture that had the most empty seats on it. 

How do you know the picture was supplied by the RFL?

[saintspete83]

1 hour ago, IM2 said:

i also saw that it was being promoted on an email from pitchero website provider. id seen they had done it for loads of union games and i sent an email to the RFL and they acted on it. good on them!

It's good that they listened to your advice and acted but the fact someone who is actually paid to explore every avenue and do their job to promote their event has to made aware of this. 

[saintspete83]

3 minutes ago, Manx RL said:

How do you know the picture was supplied by the RFL?

It says "image courtesy of the RFL" this could also mean that VisitLondon took this image themselves but it amazes me how many RL pictures are printed in the media that has nothing but empty seats in the background. It's like some photographers actually position themselves in the worst possible place. 

[whatmichaelsays]

7 minutes ago, Manx RL said:

How do you know the picture was supplied by the RFL?

It says "Image courtesy of RFL" on it?

[Manx RL]

1 hour ago, saintspete83 said:

It says "image courtesy of the RFL" this could also mean that VisitLondon took this image themselves but it amazes me how many RL pictures are printed in the media that has nothing but empty seats in the background. It's like some photographers actually position themselves in the worst possible place. 

I should pay attention!

I didn’t clock the empty seats at first and I can see why they’d  provide an image that shows that view - colour, pyrotechnics, excellent weather and vibrancy. However, a simple crop would display much the same emotive view and remove the ribbon of red.

[kev p]

Quote

 

Looking at the ticket site, I reckon about 60k for final. Loads of blocks with empty seats.

[Dave T]

On 15/08/2019 at 09:54, whatmichaelsays said:

I got one on Tuesday. 10% off with the code LAST CHANCE

Had this sent again yesterday, still claiming LAST CHANCE!

[Lowdesert]

54 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Had this sent again yesterday, still claiming LAST CHANCE!

Tight ######, waiting for the 15%.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, kev p said:

Looking at the ticket site, I reckon about 60k for final. Loads of blocks with empty seats.

It looks like tickets are no longer available from the clubs, with tickets returned to the RFL.

On the RFL site it now looks like around 150 tickets left in the lower tier.

733 in the middle tier (Club Wembley in the Wire end). 

244 in the Saints half upper tier.

850 in the Wire half upper tier.

1,997 tickets available for sale on the RFL site.

And now for the caveat - it looks like some blocks are still using the technique of alternative rows. Obviously we don't know if we are still in the first phase of that, or we are now on the released rows to fill in, so it could be far more empty seats. There is also the possibility that there are still blocks out with sponsors and clubs that are unsold/unused.

Best case, this could mean that we have c62-65k sold so far.

[Moove]

17 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It looks like tickets are no longer available from the clubs, with tickets returned to the RFL.

Still available online with Saints. Would be disappointing not to get back into 70k+ but you'd think the vast majority who wanted a ticket would have one by now

Out of interest, does anyone know if the RFL are doing anything specifically with the London amateur game and/or the schools with links to the Broncos and RL? Would be interesting to know how many tickets we sell to the London area generally but you'd think that would be an area to target with longer term benefits

[ihaveatry]

26 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It looks like tickets are no longer available from the clubs, with tickets returned to the RFL.

On the RFL site it now looks like around 150 tickets left in the lower tier.

733 in the middle tier (Club Wembley in the Wire end). 

244 in the Saints half upper tier.

850 in the Wire half upper tier.

1,997 tickets available for sale on the RFL site.

And now for the caveat - it looks like some blocks are still using the technique of alternative rows. Obviously we don't know if we are still in the first phase of that, or we are now on the released rows to fill in, so it could be far more empty seats. There is also the possibility that there are still blocks out with sponsors and clubs that are unsold/unused.

Best case, this could mean that we have c62-65k sold so far.

could be weaker than grand final attendance.it needs a shake up this comp.

[Marrafan]

On 15/08/2019 at 14:36, saintspete83 said:

Good to see the RFL supplied them with a picture that had the most empty seats on it. 

Why do league fans always find something to whinge about? The fact that the RFL have got it on the website shows they are being proactive. Maybe the website chose the image from some stock photos. They are listening to fans with the e-mails from Pitchero. People should stop looking for negatives in everything and knocking everything. there is a seven page thread on here obsessing about the attendance at the Challenge Cup Final. Come next week we will have another long thread whinging that there was only x number of seats sold etc. Looked terrible on TV etc etc. Do the people that obsess about these things actually go there?