Could there be a North American RL League?.

[The Lad]

With Toronto probably going to Super League next year and Ottawa and New York still a possibility could the idea of a North America league be something that could happen?.

Rugby union has Major League Rugby (MLR) a collection of 9 full time union teams that will be expanding to 12 next year. The American market is big and one we need to tap into, union has played some premiership league games over there and now has a league, maybe Super League games should be played over there coupled with 1 or 2 native teams doing well there could be a foundation for a league.

[Chamey]

Yes, it's called the USARL. I'm pretty unconvinced that a professional league could sustain itself without at least some grassroots or extremely easy and mainstream TV access (ie a few games a week on the main CBS). There's very few shortcuts when it comes to sport. Even the NFL with all it's money and resources over 20 odd years has failed to get beyond a cult following by trying the top-down approach.

[Big Picture]

35 minutes ago, The Lad said:

With Toronto probably going to Super League next year and Ottawa and New York still a possibility could the idea of a North America league be something that could happen?.

Rugby union has Major League Rugby (MLR) a collection of 9 full time union teams that will be expanding to 12 next year. The American market is big and one we need to tap into, union has played some premiership league games over there and now has a league, maybe Super League games should be played over there coupled with 1 or 2 native teams doing well there could be a foundation for a league.

Pro RL teams here could be part of a new league, but it would need to be transatlantic to have a unique selling point and attract audiences, and all the franchises would have to be strategically located in big world-class cities known on both sides of the pond as places home to other teams in big time major leagues.  Something like that just might be able to get FC Barcelona interested too.

[CanadianRugger]

30 minutes ago, Chamey said:

Yes, it's called the USARL. I'm pretty unconvinced that a professional league could sustain itself without at least some grassroots or extremely easy and mainstream TV access (ie a few games a week on the main CBS). There's very few shortcuts when it comes to sport. Even the NFL with all it's money and resources over 20 odd years has failed to get beyond a cult following by trying the top-down approach.

USARL is 100% amateur.  There is no way RL could sustain its own pro league in NA.  Rugby Union just got started and there are 300k amateur players in the US and about 100k amateur players in Canada. There are maybe a couple of thousand RL players at best on the entire continent.

The future is a few teams in Super League and then grow from there.

[ojx]

1 hour ago, The Lad said:

Rugby union has Major League Rugby (MLR) a collection of 9 full time union teams that will be expanding to 12 next year. 

MLR is mainly semi-pro. Their salary cap is about $500,000.  However, they have some rich investors and a shared revenue model where the players are centrally paid.  It is going to be interesting to see how it pans out, it could still go either way.

[Keith989]

2 hours ago, ojx said:

MLR is mainly semi-pro. Their salary cap is about $500,000.  However, they have some rich investors and a shared revenue model where the players are centrally paid.  It is going to be interesting to see how it pans out, it could still go either way.

There are already rumours of teams starting to break the cap, seems to be plenty of money being thrown about already. The fact that teams are signing players on multi year contracts is really encouraging too. 

[deluded pom?]

6 hours ago, The Lad said:

With Toronto probably going to Super League next year and Ottawa and New York still a possibility could the idea of a North America league be something that could happen?.

Rugby union has Major League Rugby (MLR) a collection of 9 full time union teams that will be expanding to 12 next year. The American market is big and one we need to tap into, union has played some premiership league games over there and now has a league, maybe Super League games should be played over there coupled with 1 or 2 native teams doing well there could be a foundation for a league.

Playing devil’s advocate. Who’s going to pay for two, or more, SL teams to play a game/s in the States or Canada? What’s in it for SL teams? You rarely find philanthropy at the top of the agenda in RL circles. 

[GUBRATS]

No 

[Harry Stottle]

All of you lot who desire multiple Pro RL teams on the NA continent (and BP's European big city adventure) are simply deluded, you just consider it a done excersize to equip these teams with the player's of the right quality to compete - but at what level?

In the Btitish game we employ somewhere approaching 90 player's from the Southern Hemisphere, these being those the NRL don't want those who are simply surplus to requirement, there are some decent players among those who have come over here but there are also a lot of never will be's and over the hill donkeys that our club's waste their money on, why because they have to because we simply can't produce enough here to fill those holes by our own means.

The next lot that may availabe to entice are below the standard of Southern Hemisphere players the British game already employs, you simply can't fill out new teams with a collection of player's not fit for purpose, tell me these 'new' teams will have rich owner's who can pay more money for player's, that maybe so but they will be governed like all other team's with the Salary Cap, look at Toronto they have got together a group of player's good enough to maybe win the Championship, that team is nowhere near good enough to compete in the SL, there's been no preperation on Toronto's part to bring together player's to make sure of winning the Championship and having them already on board for next season, there is a simple reason for that those player's who could have done that job are tied up already or are simply to expensive to employ in the restraints of the SC. SL clubs will not relinquish their better player's and why should they, the fans of those teams will fight against it, and moreso why would the Chairmen who have most likely brought the better player's to their club's let them go to assist an opponent, it would not make sense. If anybody wants to suggest all for the good of the game, have you ever heard of 'Charity begins at home'.

People who champion the birth of these team's really need to do some thinking about how they are going to be populated with player's, they can't get what we don't have!

[gingerjon]

6 hours ago, The Lad said:

With Toronto probably going to Super League next year and Ottawa and New York still a possibility could the idea of a North America league be something that could happen?.

Rugby union has Major League Rugby (MLR) a collection of 9 full time union teams that will be expanding to 12 next year. The American market is big and one we need to tap into, union has played some premiership league games over there and now has a league, maybe Super League games should be played over there coupled with 1 or 2 native teams doing well there could be a foundation for a league.

It could happen. It may even start. It's more than likely that it won't happen or that, if it does, the league does not survive.

As well as looking at rugby union - you might want to have a peek at the PRO Rugby set-up which lasted a year before going bust - you could have a look at cricket, lacrosse and indoor (American) football. All of whom have thousands of players and many more people who know and love the game in question - and none of whom have succeeded in establishing a stable, professional league.

We're decades, literally decades, from being in a position where a league would be possible. Probably further from it being sustainable.

That doesn't mean it's not a good direction to be heading in, just don't expect it to start tomorrow or, if it does, to last until next week.

[Bob8]

6 hours ago, The Lad said:

With Toronto probably going to Super League next year and Ottawa and New York still a possibility could the idea of a North America league be something that could happen?.

Rugby union has Major League Rugby (MLR) a collection of 9 full time union teams that will be expanding to 12 next year. The American market is big and one we need to tap into, union has played some premiership league games over there and now has a league, maybe Super League games should be played over there coupled with 1 or 2 native teams doing well there could be a foundation for a league.

The history of new professional leagues starting in sport is a long list of mainly failures. Piggy backing on existing leagues until there are enough team really is the only sensible way. 

[Bob8]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

It could happen. It may even start. It's more than likely that it won't happen or that, if it does, the league does not survive.

As well as looking at rugby union - you might want to have a peek at the PRO Rugby set-up which lasted a year before going bust - you could have a look at cricket, lacrosse and indoor (American) football. All of whom have thousands of players and many more people who know and love the game in question - and none of whom have succeeded in establishing a stable, professional league.

We're decades, literally decades, from being in a position where a league would be possible. Probably further from it being sustainable.

That doesn't mean it's not a good direction to be heading in, just don't expect it to start tomorrow or, if it does, to last until next week.

I went to some PRORugby games. It was a lonely experience. Such a set up relies on an extremely good umbrella organization and almost every team having:

- a suitable venue

- a suitable location and market 

- proper financial backing

- sensible management 

- reasonable playing squad 

...all set up new at the same time.

There are too many moving parts

[deluded pom?]

10 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

All of you lot who desire multiple Pro RL teams on the NA continent (and BP's European big city adventure) are simply deluded, you just consider it a done excersize to equip these teams with the player's of the right quality to compete - but at what level?

In the Btitish game we employ somewhere approaching 90 player's from the Southern Hemisphere, these being those the NRL don't want those who are simply surplus to requirement, there are some decent players among those who have come over here but there are also a lot of never will be's and over the hill donkeys that our club's waste their money on, why because they have to because we simply can't produce enough here to fill those holes by our own means.

The next lot that may availabe to entice are below the standard of Southern Hemisphere players the British game already employs, you simply can't fill out new teams with a collection of player's not fit for purpose, tell me these 'new' teams will have rich owner's who can pay more money for player's, that maybe so but they will be governed like all other team's with the Salary Cap, look at Toronto they have got together a group of player's good enough to maybe win the Championship, that team is nowhere near good enough to compete in the SL, there's been no preperation on Toronto's part to bring together player's to make sure of winning the Championship and having them already on board for next season, there is a simple reason for that those player's who could have done that job are tied up already or are simply to expensive to employ in the restraints of the SC. SL clubs will not relinquish their better player's and why should they, the fans of those teams will fight against it, and moreso why would the Chairmen who have most likely brought the better player's to their club's let them go to assist an opponent, it would not make sense. If anybody wants to suggest all for the good of the game, have you ever heard of 'Charity begins at home'.

People who champion the birth of these team's really need to do some thinking about how they are going to be populated with player's, they can't get what we don't have!

A couple of points Harry. Who is to say a potential NA league would have a SC and if they did it might be higher than SL’s. London were slated to not even win a game in SL yet sit on eighteen points. They may still be bottom currently but have been competitive. Who is to say this TWP squad are “nowhere near good enough to compete in the SL”?

[HawkMan]

I've never understood the strategy of wanting Toronto in Super League rather than creating a North American league as a way of expansion. Sometimes we may have to swallow a bit of pride and copy soccer. Whatever we think of what goes on on the green stuff, their expansion strategies are incredible. Look at MLS, did they create a team with the aim of transplanting it into the Premier League ? No! Three areas where they were weak, U.S , OZ and India, all now with pro leagues. Of course it takes money , rich backers, and TV interest, but surely Toronto, Ottowa, and New York could form the basis of a North American league, plus three more teams, a league of six being I believe minimum required. Six teams , 20 game regular season and play offs. That's how to grow the game stateside. Fans are brought up on matchups against rival American cities, not Northern England towns. I know Toronto wouldn't be pleased having to play in an American league after investing so much, but the model for growth is right before our eyes , the MLS.

[deluded pom?]

2 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

I've never understood the strategy of wanting Toronto in Super League rather than creating a North American league as a way of expansion. Sometimes we may have to swallow a bit of pride and copy soccer. Whatever we think of what goes on on the green stuff, their expansion strategies are incredible. Look at MLS, did they create a team with the aim of transplanting it into the Premier League ? No! Three areas where they were weak, U.S , OZ and India, all now with pro leagues. Of course it takes money , rich backers, and TV interest, but surely Toronto, Ottowa, and New York could form the basis of a North American league, plus three more teams, a league of six being I believe minimum required. Six teams , 20 game regular season and play offs. That's how to grow the game stateside. Fans are brought up on matchups against rival American cities, not Northern England towns. I know Toronto wouldn't be pleased having to play in an American league after investing so much, but the model for growth is right before our eyes , the MLS.

You seriously believe there was a strategy behind TWP joining the game over here other than the one in Eric Perez’s head?

[Harry Stottle]

4 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

I went to some PRORugby games. It was a lonely experience. Such a set up relies on an extremely good umbrella organization and almost every team having:

- a suitable venue

- a suitable location and market 

- proper financial backing

- sensible management 

- reasonable playing squad 

...all set up new at the same time.

There are too many moving parts

Hello Bob, now I have always considered you to be the sensible type discussing RL matters, I have penned my thoughts on what I believe is the biggest hurdle to overcome, someone like Mr Argyle can go into any shop and buy what he desires, but not if his wallet is constrained and the stock is already sold out, these new clubs could have owners/backers to compete with Mr Argyle but they will be shackled just the same. 

Your thoughts.

[Harry Stottle]

8 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

A couple of points Harry. Who is to say a potential NA league would have a SC and if they did it might be higher than SL’s. London were slated to not even win a game in SL yet sit on eighteen points. They may still be bottom currently but have been competitive. Who is to say this TWP squad are “nowhere near good enough to compete in the SL”?

Hi DP, firstly Toronto that is my opinion that there present squad would struggle in SL you may differ that is your prerogative.

So a potential NA league could yes do as they please if they are a self governing body with no connection to the RFL/SL, problem solved, would that work I doubt it very much, perhaps they could be an offshoot of the NRL?

[deluded pom?]

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Hi DP, firstly Toronto that is my opinion that there present squad would struggle in SL you may differ that is your prerogative.

So a potential NA league could yes do as they please if they are a self governing body with no connection to the RFL/SL, problem solved, would that work I doubt it very much, perhaps they could be an offshoot of the NRL?

Would this current TWP squad struggle to beat, and I quote, “that shower of shi-ite who masqueraded as RL team”? The one you switched off with twenty minutes of the match remaining. Why does a NA league have to be tied to the SL or the NRL? Is La Liga or the Bundesliga shackled to the Premier League?

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

Would this current TWP squad struggle to beat, and I quote, “that shower of shi-ite who masqueraded as RL team”? The one you switched off with twenty minutes of the match remaining. Why does a NA league have to be tied to the SL or the NRL? Is La Liga or the Bundesliga shackled to the Premier League?

At Catalan yes they would struggle, at home like most other teams they could well find Catalan to be cannon fodder.

Is it a crime to switch off? as I said I found it utterly boring so I exercised my index finger.

No a NA league does not require an affiliation to either the British or Australian Leagues, but for many reasons they may be much better off if they were.

I don't know very much about the round ball game, don't watch or read about it by choice, but sometimes on news programmes it is hard to avoid, but I would say no those you mention are not shakled to the Premier League, but don't the better exponents of these leagues come together to play in the same competitions?

[deluded pom?]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

At Catalan yes they would struggle, at home like most other teams they could well find Catalan to be cannon fodder.

Is it a crime to switch off? as I said I found it utterly boring so I exercised my index finger.

No a NA league does not require an affiliation to either the British or Australian Leagues, but for many reasons they may be much better off if they were.

I don't know very much about the round ball game, don't watch or read about it by choice, but sometimes on news programmes it is hard to avoid, but I would say no those you mention are not shakled to the Premier League, but don't the better exponents of these leagues come together to play in the same competitions?

Of course it’s not a crime to switch off but you switched off for a reason. That reason was because IYO Catalans were too poor, or is that uncompetitive, to watch. The various football associations around the world come together for a WC every four years Harry, which I’m sure even you are aware of. They don’t have to be linked to each other. In fact they are separate entities believe it or not who play under a controlling umbrella that is FIFA, the RL equivalent being the RLIF.

[Harry Stottle]

6 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

Of course it’s not a crime to switch off but you switched off for a reason. That reason was because IYO Catalans were too poor, or is that uncompetitive, to watch. The various football associations around the world come together for a WC every four years Harry, which I’m sure even you are aware of. They don’t have to be linked to each other. In fact they are separate entities believe it or not who play under a controlling umbrella that is FIFA, the RL equivalent being the RLIF.

Call it as you see it, Catalan has they have prooved can be a match for anyone insert any synonym or adjective for poor you so wish, and for me Catalan were all of those last night.

You know I am simply not bothered in the slightest with anything to do with football, in fact if I ever come across a refererance to football for comparrison or examples with Rugby League on these pages, I skip right past, I think they are totally irrelevant, this is the only time I have replied in that sense, I will end it there.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Of course there could, who would have thought there would have been a Nigerian Super League, for example, a few years ago? 

 

[Gooleboy]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

All of you lot who desire multiple Pro RL teams on the NA continent (and BP's European big city adventure) are simply deluded, you just consider it a done excersize to equip these teams with the player's of the right quality to compete - but at what level?

In the Btitish game we employ somewhere approaching 90 player's from the Southern Hemisphere, these being those the NRL don't want those who are simply surplus to requirement, there are some decent players among those who have come over here but there are also a lot of never will be's and over the hill donkeys that our club's waste their money on, why because they have to because we simply can't produce enough here to fill those holes by our own means.

The next lot that may availabe to entice are below the standard of Southern Hemisphere players the British game already employs, you simply can't fill out new teams with a collection of player's not fit for purpose, tell me these 'new' teams will have rich owner's who can pay more money for player's, that maybe so but they will be governed like all other team's with the Salary Cap, look at Toronto they have got together a group of player's good enough to maybe win the Championship, that team is nowhere near good enough to compete in the SL, there's been no preperation on Toronto's part to bring together player's to make sure of winning the Championship and having them already on board for next season, there is a simple reason for that those player's who could have done that job are tied up already or are simply to expensive to employ in the restraints of the SC. SL clubs will not relinquish their better player's and why should they, the fans of those teams will fight against it, and moreso why would the Chairmen who have most likely brought the better player's to their club's let them go to assist an opponent, it would not make sense. If anybody wants to suggest all for the good of the game, have you ever heard of 'Charity begins at home'.

People who champion the birth of these team's really need to do some thinking about how they are going to be populated with player's, they can't get what we don't have!

I seem to recall Maurice Lindsay and Chris Caisley telling us at the launch of SL that Barcelona, Milan and other major European Cities would be joining the League and look how that came to fruition. So it's a no from me.

[Harry Stottle]

32 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Of course there could, who would have thought there would have been a Nigerian Super League, for example, a few years ago? 

 

And the player's Oliver, where are they from?

[deluded pom?]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

And the player's Oliver, where are they from?

Err, Nigeria believe it or not.