Wellsy4HullFC Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 I like playoffs, but just not between clubs all from the same league. This way makes it seem an unnecessary add on when the best team has already been declared through the league system. I can see why we have them, and they are a financial necessity and create a huge calendar event, and certainly wouldn't change to first part the post for these reasons, but it just doesn't sit right with me. If the playoffs were between 2+ leagues or groups or conferences, you'd have the best of both worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kevin Sinfield Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 When we won it from 5th, then won it from 5th again, it felt like supporters from every other club complained and said we were not worthy Champions, I think that’s even why we went down to top 4 play offs. Now it seems all is forgotten and top 5 play offs are popular again. Personally I don’t like a play off system that is overly long and has repeat fixtures. I believe the play off attendances will show I’m not alone. Top 4, semi final then final is ideal. I expect us to be back with this system in a couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSaint Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Top 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Toppy Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 15 hours ago, johnh1 said: The race for the top 5 has suddenly become very interesting. If Saints had already been confirmed as champions, there would be a lot of meaningless games coming up. As it is, with the relegation issue to be decided as well, pretty much every game has a lot standing on it. What would people prefer? First past the post as champions - always thought the GF was a needless gimmick introduced just to try and imitate the NRL. Could never understand why the best team over the course of a whole year shouldn't be crowned league champions. If we still had the FPTP system then we would have had several other clubs who would have been SL champions like Cas, Wire & Hudds. If the RFL still want some end of season excitement and a 'day out' at OT then bring back the Premiership Trophy and let the top 5 teams fight it out for another piece of silverware. St.Helens - The Home of record breaking Rugby Champions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Totally understand why we have play offs and a Grand Final, it's a fabulous season ending event, and because of loopy fixtures an absolute necessity in the interests of fairness. However the team that ends bottom could equally claim that play offs were needed in the interest of fairness. In an ideal world we'd do away with loopy fixtures, have a 16 team SL and FPTP, with the season kept alive with the top four qualifying for an eight team World Club Cup, ( 4 SL,4NRL) played the following season. Unfortunately that's something the NRL would be unlikely to want, and as the RLIB don't run the game but the NRL does, pipe dreams will remain just that. BTW - would anyone be brave enough, say next April, if it looks like Liverpool might win the EPL, to go into Jurgen Klopp's office and say " had a great idea Mr Klopp, why don't we have the top four enter a knockout competition at the season end to decide the title! " Any volunteers ? Thought not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 We've had a Championship final forever top 5 just stops rewarding poorer teams. 2 warning points Non-Political Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzzz65 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 14 hours ago, sentoffagain2 said: Old 4 cups was League winners,Top four play off winners ,County Cup winners and Rugby League cup winners. No it wasn't. There was no cup for 'League winners'(I assume you mean the team that finished top of the league).The fourth cup was for Yorkshire or Lancashire League winners. The top four playoff winners were the Rugby League champions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 If we go regular fixtures where as every club plays each other and no extra fixture such as the 'Magic' weekend, then the league leader are effectively the champions, in that situation there is no need for a play off comp. But has it has been said, the GF is now our biggest game, so I cannot see any time in the future that we will drop a game that creates a lop sided fixture list making it essential to have a play-off to determine the Champions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moove Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 25 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: It is entirely within character that many within RL see the undoubted, unmitigated success of the Grand Final and want to scrap it replace it with something inferior. Rugby League demands of its champions that they are not only consistent but perform in the heavyweight title fight when the pressure is on. That is how we decide our best team. It is the best and most exciting way of doing it While I agree with the sentiment in your first paragraph, the bit about about RL demanding that champions demonstrate consistency is plain wrong. Wire, Hull and Wigan have been anything but consistent this season and will likely be three of the five playoff teams. The fifth team could feasibly be one with an equal number of wins and defeats. That's the total opposite of consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Saint Toppy said: First past the post as champions - always thought the GF was a needless gimmick introduced just to try and imitate the NRL. Could never understand why the best team over the course of a whole year shouldn't be crowned league champions. If we still had the FPTP system then we would have had several other clubs who would have been SL champions like Cas, Wire & Hudds. If the RFL still want some end of season excitement and a 'day out' at OT then bring back the Premiership Trophy and let the top 5 teams fight it out for another piece of silverware. That's not necessarily true though is it. Winning the GF (and indeed the Challenge Cup) has almost always been about peaking at the right time and teams prepare for that. Very few teams that come out of the blocks on fire at the start of a season have the ability to carry that through to the end. You can't compare the two systems and say Cas, Hudds and Wire would have won SL without the GF as you ignore how the other clubs (Wigan, Leeds, Saints) would respond. Leeds for example may have not have kept Brian Mac or some of the players for so long, having only one 1st and a 3rd place finish of note to their name since 2010. Yet this was a team that was excellent in knockout rugby and could hold its nerve at the vital points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 hour ago, HawkMan said: BTW - would anyone be brave enough, say next April, if it looks like Liverpool might win the EPL, to go into Jurgen Klopp's office and say " had a great idea Mr Klopp, why don't we have the top four enter a knockout competition at the season end to decide the title! " Any volunteers ? Thought not. You wouldn't do it out of the blue at the end of a season though would you, you'd pre-establish it before and Mr Klopp would be preparing his team in the final months of the season for that knockout football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrtbps Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 I'm with Zlatan. "The [playoff] system is sh!t." https://www.goal.com/en/news/the-system-is-s-ibrahimovic-critical-of-mls-playoffs/15p3akzx0bska1ukh5ghjd2e4g FEATHERSTONE ROVERS, A GENERATIONAL LOVE AFFAIR, AND THE CALL OF HISTORY A SECOND TIME AROUND Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 19 hours ago, johnh1 said: The race for the top 5 has suddenly become very interesting. If Saints had already been confirmed as champions, there would be a lot of meaningless games coming up. As it is, with the relegation issue to be decided as well, pretty much every game has a lot standing on it. What would people prefer? There have always been play offs for decades and decades. Its not news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Toppy Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Tommygilf said: That's not necessarily true though is it. Winning the GF (and indeed the Challenge Cup) has almost always been about peaking at the right time and teams prepare for that. Very few teams that come out of the blocks on fire at the start of a season have the ability to carry that through to the end. You can't compare the two systems and say Cas, Hudds and Wire would have won SL without the GF as you ignore how the other clubs (Wigan, Leeds, Saints) would respond. Leeds for example may have not have kept Brian Mac or some of the players for so long, having only one 1st and a 3rd place finish of note to their name since 2010. Yet this was a team that was excellent in knockout rugby and could hold its nerve at the vital points. We have the CC to see which team is best at a knockout competition. If you want a second one then bring back the Premiership trophy. The team that performs consistently the best over the course of the entire season should be crowned the league champions. Being mediocre for 6 months and then performing well for 2-3 weeks isn't a rightful way to determine the league champions. It totally devalues 6 months of league games. St.Helens - The Home of record breaking Rugby Champions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said: We have the CC to see which team is best at a knockout competition. If you want a second one then bring back the Premiership trophy. The team that performs consistently the best over the course of the entire season should be crowned the league champions. Being mediocre for 6 months and then performing well for 2-3 weeks isn't a rightful way to determine the league champions. It totally devalues 6 months of league games. Presumably you'd celebrate your team winning the League Leaders Shield more than the Super League Grand Final then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Taylor Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Super League - League Champions Championship & 1 - Depending on how many is promoted (first position automatically promoted, then play offs). 2008 RFL Wakefield & District Young Volunteer of the Year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 6 hours ago, Saint Toppy said: First past the post as champions - always thought the GF was a needless gimmick introduced just to try and imitate the NRL. Could never understand why the best team over the course of a whole year shouldn't be crowned league champions. If we still had the FPTP system then we would have had several other clubs who would have been SL champions like Cas, Wire & Hudds. If the RFL still want some end of season excitement and a 'day out' at OT then bring back the Premiership Trophy and let the top 5 teams fight it out for another piece of silverware. Playoffs which don't crown a champion? What an utterly stupid idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Toppy Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Tommygilf said: Presumably you'd celebrate your team winning the League Leaders Shield more than the Super League Grand Final then? I think its far more of an achievement yes, its just a pity the governing body were quick to jump on the NRL GF gimmick bandwagon and chose to devalue the rest of the league games in favour of 1 single knockout game at the end of the year. St.Helens - The Home of record breaking Rugby Champions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Toppy Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Big Picture said: Playoffs which don't crown a champion? What an utterly stupid idea. Works perfectly well in Football. They have play-off's in their lower leagues to determine who gets promoted along side the league champions. Plus the Premier League doesn't need a GF gimmick to determine who are the league champions. St.Helens - The Home of record breaking Rugby Champions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 59 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: Group stage then knockout is pretty common in football. Football also has european qualification to play for, so in effect does have play-offs (I.e another competition for the top4) It's a bit disingenuous to suggest Champions League qualification are play offs. Play Offs post season by definition, CL qualification is assured during regular season. But we could have something for the top four to play for - expanded World Club Challenge, four teams SL and NRL competed for the following season. Problem is of course CL is worth millions to the participants and World Club Challenge isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, HawkMan said: It's a bit disingenuous to suggest Champions League qualification are play offs. Play Offs post season by definition, CL qualification is assured during regular season. But we could have something for the top four to play for - expanded World Club Challenge, four teams SL and NRL competed for the following season. Problem is of course CL is worth millions to the participants and World Club Challenge isn't. They are post-season, in the sense that they come after the League portion of the Champions League season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 17 minutes ago, Big Picture said: They are post-season, in the sense that they come after the League portion of the Champions League season. We're talking about Champions League qualification from EPL, which is decided by who ends in top four after 38 game regular season. In CL itself after group phase, is knockout rounds, never referred to as play offs. In the unlikely event of a total tie between two teams in either qualification in EPL.or CL group phase then a play off would be played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Rover Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 7 hours ago, Moove said: While I agree with the sentiment in your first paragraph, the bit about about RL demanding that champions demonstrate consistency is plain wrong. Wire, Hull and Wigan have been anything but consistent this season and will likely be three of the five playoff teams. The fifth team could feasibly be one with an equal number of wins and defeats. That's the total opposite of consistency. The best thing about the top 5 system is that the teams in 4th and 5th have to be the most consistent in the playoffs with the knowledge that one defeat and their season is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 League leaders all day long , if as others have suggested we had ' extras ' to play for , but we don't , so a GF it has to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superten Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 23 hours ago, Big Picture said: Sorry, but playoffs which don't crown a champion is a stupid idea. Crowning a champion is the only reason to have playoffs. old system was league winners at end of regular season were champions . The top 8 clubs then qualified for a separate end of season cup comp called the premiership trophy . 1st v 8th 2nd v 7th 3rd v 6th 4th v5th . Semis were highest two quarters winners at home against lowest two . it was pulling in 40,000 plus gates at Old Trafford in mid 90s Chief Crazy Eagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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