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superten

short game format

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I know we have nines or sevens , but it doesn't really give you the experience of a full blooded 13 a side game . When you look how Cricket has raised its profile in recent years with various different format the one thing that's always remained is eleven aside . Time these days is precious everybody lives busy lives . To be a Amateur rugby league player can still be time consuming playing 80 minutes on Saturday must wipe you out Sunday making it a total rest day . Also training being fit enough to play 80 minutes must take time and effort . So has the RFL ever thought of doing a shorter game time format ? I think this may help summer conference teams . Instead of playing 40 minutes each way why not try 25 minutes each way with 10 minutes half time . Every other rule the same as other competitions although you could reduce interchanges .  


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1 minute ago, superten said:

I know we have nines or sevens , but it doesn't really give you the experience of a full blooded 13 a side game . When you look how Cricket has raised its profile in recent years with various different format the one thing that's always remained is eleven aside . Time these days is precious everybody lives busy lives . To be a Amateur rugby league player can still be time consuming playing 80 minutes on Saturday must wipe you out Sunday making it a total rest day . Also training being fit enough to play 80 minutes must take time and effort . So has the RFL ever thought of doing a shorter game time format ? I think this may help summer conference teams . Instead of playing 40 minutes each way why not try 25 minutes each way with 10 minutes half time . Every other rule the same as other competitions although you could reduce interchanges .  

Why ?

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Why ?

a shorter game time might help increase player participation at amateur level .The chance more players playing rugby league has to be worth exploring .


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2 minutes ago, superten said:

a shorter game time might help increase player participation at amateur level .The chance more players playing rugby league has to be worth exploring .

Time isn't the issue , playing numbers is 

We have seen cricket used countless times as a reason to alter how we play the sport , but cricket has shortened and shortened their matches , but even their shortest is still 2/3 times longer than a game of RL 

An essentially 2 hour game isn't the problem , the sheer physicality is , and the requirement to have 30 people available 

So we have Tag and touch , although neither of those can still replicate the actual attraction of a game of RL 

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2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Time isn't the issue , playing numbers is 

We have seen cricket used countless times as a reason to alter how we play the sport , but cricket has shortened and shortened their matches , but even their shortest is still 2/3 times longer than a game of RL 

An essentially 2 hour game isn't the problem , the sheer physicality is , and the requirement to have 30 people available 

So we have Tag and touch , although neither of those can still replicate the actual attraction of a game of RL 

its not only about game time its about all the time you need to put in into being able to play 80 minutes . I am not saying reducing game time is going to cause a flood a new teams and players at summer conference level , but it night help . Clubs hiring pitches would save money on pitch hire time . More local football teams might be open to hiring there pitches with shorter games. 

But to me this idea would cost nothing to try . All RL would need to do is to put a few trail games on and see what interest or response they get . Every avenue that could possibly increase player involvement has got to be worth exploring hasn't it ?  

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Chief Crazy Eagle

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1 hour ago, superten said:

a shorter game time might help increase player participation at amateur level .The chance more players playing rugby league has to be worth exploring .

Amateur teams already play a shorter version of the game. They play anything from 20 minutes each way to 80 minutes each way depending upon the age of the players and there is also tag-rugby at which they could play to begin their participation at the game.

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10 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Amateur teams already play a shorter version of the game. They play anything from 20 minutes each way to 80 minutes each way depending upon the age of the players and there is also tag-rugby at which they could play to begin their participation at the game.

Thanks I wasn't aware of such competitions


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1 hour ago, superten said:

its not only about game time its about all the time you need to put in into being able to play 80 minutes . I am not saying reducing game time is going to cause a flood a new teams and players at summer conference level , but it night help . Clubs hiring pitches would save money on pitch hire time . More local football teams might be open to hiring there pitches with shorter games. 

But to me this idea would cost nothing to try . All RL would need to do is to put a few trail games on and see what interest or response they get . Every avenue that could possibly increase player involvement has got to be worth exploring hasn't it ?  

to take the two main things you mention which are both about the hiring of pitches for the most part you hire them for the afternoon they aren't hired like a 5 a side football pitch with your mates by the hour. certainly from when i used to be involved. Even if they were an 80 minute game is a 2 hour booking, if, just to use your example, you were to go to 2 x 25 minute halves with a 10 minute break you will still need to book for 2 hours due to possible injuries etc and not getting kicked off. 

For me when i played it wasn't the length of the game but the entire day of a saturday that would go missing, and no worries on taking the sunday to recover from the knocks i was, for the most part, hungover... my ability to walk and do things though was not hindered and anyone who is to the level of writing off their sunday, to be honest, needs to think about their training, and their ability to cope with the physical aspect of the game. 

The commitment to play rugby is a Tuesday and Thursday evening and pretty much a whole day saturday. BUT you will be doing that with your mates for the most part or making friends (when i moved to a new town it was a way of making friends who, for the most part, had similar interests (at least one)). Its not the length of the game that is the issue its the all round commitment, the pressure on your time is more with working hours now being more irregular, more places having "shift" work or "late night opening". Kids playing more video games socially than before and loads and loads more socio economic factors. 

When making commitments to play you give up quite a bit you always have, you gain quite a lot too. If you are travelling an hour to play, getting there an hour before hand to "warm up" and get ready etc then a couple of hours afterwards for social, then a drive back the fact the game is 30 minutes less I dont think will make that much difference. If it is I would say the main one would be "why bother for such a short game".

Edited by RP London

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36 minutes ago, superten said:

Thanks I wasn't aware of such competitions

That's OK ... that's what these forums are partly about; to exchange information.

I don't think your suggestion is a bad one (and without ideas then we would never progress), it's just that would the amount of time and effort to organise adult teams to play a shorter version of the game ultimately be worth it for the amount of new players it might attract ?

 

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1 hour ago, superten said:

I know we have nines or sevens , but it doesn't really give you the experience of a full blooded 13 a side game . When you look how Cricket has raised its profile in recent years with various different format the one thing that's always remained is eleven aside . Time these days is precious everybody lives busy lives . To be a Amateur rugby league player can still be time consuming playing 80 minutes on Saturday must wipe you out Sunday making it a total rest day . Also training being fit enough to play 80 minutes must take time and effort . So has the RFL ever thought of doing a shorter game time format ? I think this may help summer conference teams . Instead of playing 40 minutes each way why not try 25 minutes each way with 10 minutes half time . Every other rule the same as other competitions although you could reduce interchanges .  

I think that is the niche 9's is supposed to fill. 

The point of the shortened form of cricket is to also encourage a more attacking and spectacular form of the game. To do that they also change some of the other rules around fielding etc to ensure that more runs are scored. 

RL's version of doing that bit is to reduce the number of players (personally I would also be interested to reduce the number of tackles in 9s to three and increase the number of points for tries from your own half to encourage it even more). 

Its not just reducing the time, its condensing the game. T20 wouldn't be as popular if it was just 2hrs of test match style cricket. 

I think you are right about the participation issue though. RL are missing a huge trick in not pushing 9s carnivals throughout the summer as participation events. Its easy to commit to three or four weekends through the summer with a bit of training here and there. A year of punishing 80minute games is a much different ask. 

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Nines could be a great format to spread the game into areas that don't initially require the numbers to be involved. The NRL are pushing strongly the nines at grassroots and something the RFL could also look into.
I'd like to see Magic become a Nines comp too.

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3 hours ago, superten said:

its not only about game time its about all the time you need to put in into being able to play 80 minutes . I am not saying reducing game time is going to cause a flood a new teams and players at summer conference level , but it night help . Clubs hiring pitches would save money on pitch hire time . More local football teams might be open to hiring there pitches with shorter games. 

But to me this idea would cost nothing to try . All RL would need to do is to put a few trail games on and see what interest or response they get . Every avenue that could possibly increase player involvement has got to be worth exploring hasn't it ?  

The problem of " the time you need to put into being able to play 80 minutes " is you could then end up encouraging let's say ' less savoury ' people looking for a chance to just beat somebody up within a game , something we already see in some of the league's , were they really aren't bothered about actually playing RL 

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1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

I think that is the niche 9's is supposed to fill. 

The point of the shortened form of cricket is to also encourage a more attacking and spectacular form of the game. To do that they also change some of the other rules around fielding etc to ensure that more runs are scored. 

RL's version of doing that bit is to reduce the number of players (personally I would also be interested to reduce the number of tackles in 9s to three and increase the number of points for tries from your own half to encourage it even more). 

Its not just reducing the time, its condensing the game. T20 wouldn't be as popular if it was just 2hrs of test match style cricket. 

I think you are right about the participation issue though. RL are missing a huge trick in not pushing 9s carnivals throughout the summer as participation events. Its easy to commit to three or four weekends through the summer with a bit of training here and there. A year of punishing 80minute games is a much different ask. 

9 s quite possibly could be a way of keeping open age interested longer and as others have suggested as development tools 

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1 hour ago, RugbyLeagueMan said:

Nines could be a great format to spread the game into areas that don't initially require the numbers to be involved. The NRL are pushing strongly the nines at grassroots and something the RFL could also look into.
I'd like to see Magic become a Nines comp too.

Magic ? , No , unless of course you want to hold it at the LSV , because that size of stadium is all you would need 

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4 hours ago, superten said:

I know we have nines or sevens , but it doesn't really give you the experience of a full blooded 13 a side game . When you look how Cricket has raised its profile in recent years with various different format the one thing that's always remained is eleven aside . Time these days is precious everybody lives busy lives . To be a Amateur rugby league player can still be time consuming playing 80 minutes on Saturday must wipe you out Sunday making it a total rest day . Also training being fit enough to play 80 minutes must take time and effort . So has the RFL ever thought of doing a shorter game time format ? I think this may help summer conference teams . Instead of playing 40 minutes each way why not try 25 minutes each way with 10 minutes half time . Every other rule the same as other competitions although you could reduce interchanges .  

 

4 hours ago, superten said:

I know we have nines or sevens , but it doesn't really give you the experience of a full blooded 13 a side game . When you look how Cricket has raised its profile in recent years with various different format the one thing that's always remained is eleven aside . Time these days is precious everybody lives busy lives . To be a Amateur rugby league player can still be time consuming playing 80 minutes on Saturday must wipe you out Sunday making it a total rest day . Also training being fit enough to play 80 minutes must take time and effort . So has the RFL ever thought of doing a shorter game time format ? I think this may help summer conference teams . Instead of playing 40 minutes each way why not try 25 minutes each way with 10 minutes half time . Every other rule the same as other competitions although you could reduce interchanges .  

File it along with “get rid of scrums”.We have a book of rules of the game,just enforce them to get our game back on track.

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54 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

The chances are that as many people who might like 9s, there will be an equal (or likely much larger) number who hate it. 

 

That's not really an issue. If 1m people like it and 56m people hate it, we only really need to worry about the 1m who may like it and sell to them

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21 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

 

That isn't how it works though. You won't get 1m new people who have never heard of RL suddenly liking a 9-man version of it. I'd mention a very near cousin that has a shortened version for example and comparison but of course that is not allowed.

 

and there are people who will go to 7s but not 15s. 

How many people dislike it is a complete irrelevance

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4 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

 

It depends what running a shortened comp is designed to do. If the idea is to use it as a gateway to getting people in to watch/play the full game then it is relevant. 

It's designed to appeal to the people it appeals to.

Those that it doesnt appeal to are of no consequence.

There are 8b people in the world. If 99% of people hate it and 1% love it who cares. 808m people are enough for us to sell to.

Most people arent the market for almost everything. Pick any sport in the world and most people dont like it

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Play an adjusted version of Kabaddi... for an inside short game version... some of the skills needed cut across

Edited by redjonn

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8 hours ago, superten said:

I know we have nines or sevens , but it doesn't really give you the experience of a full blooded 13 a side game . When you look how Cricket has raised its profile in recent years with various different format the one thing that's always remained is eleven aside . Time these days is precious everybody lives busy lives . To be a Amateur rugby league player can still be time consuming playing 80 minutes on Saturday must wipe you out Sunday making it a total rest day . Also training being fit enough to play 80 minutes must take time and effort . So has the RFL ever thought of doing a shorter game time format ? I think this may help summer conference teams . Instead of playing 40 minutes each way why not try 25 minutes each way with 10 minutes half time . Every other rule the same as other competitions although you could reduce interchanges .  

A shorter format only works if there's more than one game , which negates your point 

We already have a shorter format , we don't need any more 

How much interest there is in that shorter format is open to debate , some think it would be popular , some don't 

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Well, this thread has gone the way I expected...

FWIW, I think the idea has merit. At least I'd like to see it trialled. How do we know whether people would like it if we don't even give it a go? 

Maybe try an evening league during the summer months for teams that usually play in the winter - Pennine League teams, for example. Leagues with 8 teams, 8.00 pm kick off, so games would be over shortly after 9.00 whilst it's still light. Later kick offs might draw those who are working during the day, but can't give up whole Saturdays - and still time for a few bars afterwards.

Perhaps it would attract a few new players to give it a try - and if it doesn't, well, what has really been lost?

 

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6 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

Well, this thread has gone the way I expected...

FWIW, I think the idea has merit. At least I'd like to see it trialled. How do we know whether people would like it if we don't even give it a go? 

Maybe try an evening league during the summer months for teams that usually play in the winter - Pennine League teams, for example. Leagues with 8 teams, 8.00 pm kick off, so games would be over shortly after 9.00 whilst it's still light. Later kick offs might draw those who are working during the day, but can't give up whole Saturdays - and still time for a few bars afterwards.

Perhaps it would attract a few new players to give it a try - and if it doesn't, well, what has really been lost?

 

without wanting to be a "doom sayer" as its something i dont like. however, the issue with midweek is travel again.. your talking about people getting around straight afterwork, needing to eat something, get somewhere to meet and then change/warm up then ok the game finishes at 9.. out of the changing rooms at 9.30 eat/drink then home by??? its quite a night!.. even with training (and we all know how the numbers are up and down) but 9 times out of 10 you go to your local club, now people are needing to go further afield to play mid week after work (some of whom wont finish till 6).. 

I'm not trying to be negative but if you want to trial it I think this would give a completely distorted view of it.. i cant see it working logistically. 

you dont have to "give it a go" with every knew idea to see that not much would be gained. 

9s is a bit different, i dont personally like it but i see the merits and would like to see a bit more done with it to see if it is worthwhile but i dont see a shortened time frame 13 a side game doing anything .

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If the intent is to use 20 20 as an analogy for a more exiting "youthful" short competition, I suggest a 11s comp at 25mins each half.

This would allow a magic-like weekend for 6 to 8 matches.  Or 2 games in an late afternoon early evening event. 

The rules could insist on minimum nr of under 20s and a maxium of me of 30s. Mind you I am not sure how my above latter notion world work for fixtures.

 

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6 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

If the intent is to use 20 20 as an analogy for a more exiting "youthful" short competition, I suggest a 11s comp at 25mins each half.

This would allow a magic-like weekend for 6 to 8 matches.  Or 2 games in an late afternoon early evening event. 

The rules could insist on minimum nr of under 20s and a maxium of me of 30s. Mind you I am not sure how my above latter notion world work for fixtures.

 

We have 9s or 7s , why bother with yet another ?

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21 hours ago, SuperMario said:

The problems of participation comes down to a single question for me: Is RL better to watch than to play? 

Deffo better to play! To watch I find it boring, however I played the game for over 20 years!

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