Who would you pick for the Great Britain touring team?

[burnleywelsh]

10 hours ago, Dunbar said:

OK, I will add another word.  International sport 'should' be best of ours vs. best of yours.  I really don't care what other nations/sports do... I believe that our Rugby League national team should not include Australians.

It can get complicated and I admit that and I am happy to judge these things on a case by case basis.  And in the case of Austin and Hastings I don't want them representing England or Great Britain... because they are Australians.

So is it down to the fans (like yourself) to decide if a player can represent a country?

My son, born and bred in Lancashire, England, identifies himself as Welsh. Welsh father, mother half English, half Irish. Because he is born in England, has a Burnley accent, can he not play for Wales? Does he have to convince Welsh fans that he is more Welsh than English? And how would he do that? According to you, because he has lived all his life in England and has an English accent, he should never play for Wales......I think Iestyn Harris might disagree with you.

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, burnleywelsh said:

So is it down to the fans (like yourself) to decide if a player can represent a country?

My son, born and bred in Lancashire, England, identifies himself as Welsh. Welsh father, mother half English, half Irish. Because he is born in England, has a Burnley accent, can he not play for Wales? Does he have to convince Welsh fans that he is more Welsh than English? And how would he do that? According to you, because he has lived all his life in England and has an English accent, he should never play for Wales......I think Iestyn Harris might disagree with you.

You are arguing with me and yet I agree wit you. Did you not see my post on Jack Reed?

I have an Italian wife and I am sure (and hope) that my daughter identifies as half English/British and half Italian and I would be happy for her to represent either country. 

Let me ask you, do you think Hastings and Austin fit into the same category as my daughter and your son, do you think they identify or 'feel' British? Honestly?

Look, I'm not criticising them personally, I don't even know if either has put their hand up.for selection. 

My point is that international sport should have some emotional connection otherwise it is as mercenary as the club scene. If either (or any other.player).has this connection then great. But if they don't, it just feels opportunistic...

[Balmain1969]

If by some weird set of circumstances Australia was running low on halves, one phone call and both Austin and Hastings would be on the next flight to Sydney and into a Green and Gold jumper.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

1 hour ago, Balmain1969 said:

If by some weird set of circumstances Australia was running low on halves, one phone call and both Austin and Hastings would be on the next flight to Sydney and into a Green and Gold jumper.

I’m sure there are plenty in the England, New Zealand and every other squad that would turn out for Australia if they qualified and they got that phone call.

Australia is the only country you earn $20,000 per appearance, career’s are short, they’d be daft not to earn the money while they can. 

[Dunbar]

23 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

I’m sure there are plenty in the England, New Zealand and every other squad that would turn out for Australia if they qualified and they got that phone call.

Australia is the only country you earn $20,000 per appearance, career’s are short, they’d be daft not to earn the money while they can. 

As somebody who doesn't particularly follow a club team and who gets really excited when the international window rolls around I find that quite depressing.  I would hope that the players have some of the patriotism and passion for representing their country that the fans have and wouldn't just change allegiances at the drop of a hat... even for $20k.

I am not saying your wrong.  Just that it is a depressing thought.

[Harry Stottle]

On 19/08/2019 at 21:52, Oliver Clothesoff said:

If he gets in above Lomax at 6, the games gone mad. 

I use to think that every time Sinfield got picked against Aus or NZ, he had more than enough opportunities to impress at that level but he simply could not make the step up from being a very good influential player in the domestic game to transferring those skills when it mattered at International level, nothing against the guy just my opinion of the limit of when his skills became inadequate.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

I use to think that every time Sinfield got picked against Aus or NZ, he had more than enough opportunities to impress at that level but he simply could not make the step up from being a very good influential player in the domestic game to transferring those skills when it mattered at International level, nothing against the guy just my opinion of the limit of when his skills became inadequate.

I’m not sure your point at all. 

[Harry Stottle]

22 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

We’d be lying to ourselves if we differentiate between England and GB right now; same coach, same players.

I expect to see Reagan Grace in the GB team, it may well be come the WC that we are ruing his unavailability.

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

I’m not sure your point at all. 

I am basically expressing my views on a particular player just as you have done with Lomax.

[Harry Stottle]

21 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Hastings is a very good player.  And I don't particularly want him to play for Great Britain or England.  The same with Austin.

I have said on these boards that identity is complicated but I would take a hell of a lot of convincing that Hastings and Austin 'feel' English/British and feel an allegiance to us as a sporting nation through their grandmothers.  If they had British parents I think it would be different but these links are too tenuous for my liking.

The bottom line is I bet they both grew up dreaming of playing for the Kangaroos and not pulling on a Great Britain shirt.

I know what the eligibility rules are and I know what other countries and other sports do. It doesn't change the way I feel.

As someone said on here a while back, international sport is 'the best of ours vs. the best of yours' and it wouldn't be that with Hastings and Austin in the lineup.

You and me both Dunbar, well said.

[Harry Stottle]

21 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

One player is head and shoulders above the rest for try assists 

Hastings 33

Sneyd 21

Lomax 20 

Coote 19

Williams 18

Tomkins 17 

Connor 15 

So thats it then, Sneyd is the most influential attacking British half up to this monent in time so why not pick him? 

People use the stats charts to get their point across so here it is in black and white, and his kicking game is right up there, most probably better than any other on that list.

[Harry Stottle]

9 hours ago, Dunbar said:

You are arguing with me and yet I agree wit you. Did you not see my post on Jack Reed?

I have an Italian wife and I am sure (and hope) that my daughter identifies as half English/British and half Italian and I would be happy for her to represent either country. 

Let me ask you, do you think Hastings and Austin fit into the same category as my daughter and your son, do you think they identify or 'feel' British? Honestly?

Look, I'm not criticising them personally, I don't even know if either has put their hand up.for selection. 

My point is that international sport should have some emotional connection otherwise it is as mercenary as the club scene. If either (or any other.player).has this connection then great. But if they don't, it just feels opportunistic...

Example, Rangi Chase.

[Scubby]

24 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I expect to see Reagan Grace in the GB team, it may well be come the WC that we are ruing his unavailability.

His unavailability for England? Wingers is an area where we are overloaded with options. 

[Saint Toppy]

21 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

One player is head and shoulders above the rest for try assists 

Hastings 33

Sneyd 21

Lomax 20 

Coote 19

Williams 18

Tomkins 17 

Connor 15 

All that stat shows is Salford base all their attack around one player. If he was at a club like Saints those would be far lower as they share their attack around much more as a team. It doesn't mean he would have that level of influence at international level.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

I’m sure there are plenty in the England, New Zealand and every other squad that would turn out for Australia if they qualified and they got that phone call.

Australia is the only country you earn $20,000 per appearance, career’s are short, they’d be daft not to earn the money while they can. 

That reminds me of the guy who propositioned a girl with £100,000 to have sex with him, which she agreed to, he then said what if I reduced it to £10,000 will you still have sex with me, she said yes, then he said would you accept £100 she replied "NO, what kind of a girl do you think I am" he replied we have already established what kind of a girl you are, I was just seeing what was the best price I could get! 

Get the point Kev, as Dunbar said it is not just about money, there has to be a connection.

[Harry Stottle]

7 minutes ago, Scubby said:

His unavailability for England? Wingers is an area where we are overloaded with options. 

I didn't expect any other answer from you at all Scubby, you didn't dissapoint me one bit, so we have plenty of other options for that position so thats no problem, what if the player concerned was bar far the best centre we (Britain) has produced in the last 50 years I suppose you would change your opinion.

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

I didn't expect any other answer from you at all Scubby, you didn't dissapoint me one bit, so we have plenty of other options for that position so thats no problem, what if the player concerned was bar far the best centre we (Britain) has produced in the last 50 years I suppose you would change your opinion.

With respect he is not though. He is a decent player who is having a good season. But so did Joe Burgess and Dom Manfredi et al not too long ago. They weren't the answer to our long term problems. Grace is small and will be targeted. He is a very exciting player but he if he wasn't Welsh little would be said about him among the pack of other wingers.

[Harry Stottle]

43 minutes ago, Scubby said:

With respect he is not though. He is a decent player who is having a good season. But so did Joe Burgess and Dom Manfredi et al not too long ago. They weren't the answer to our long term problems. Grace is small and will be targeted. He is a very exciting player but he if he wasn't Welsh little would be said about him among the pack of other wingers.

As was Dessie Drummond and Jason Robinson, and in modern times Ado Carr who could well be international is not to big either.

[Liverpool Rover]

FB Coote

3/4 Hall Gildart Connor Makinson

Halves Williams Widdop

Front Row Graham Hodgson Thompson

Second Row Bateman Whitehead

Loose Forward S Burgess

Bench Walmsley Watts Clark Lomax

 

[CiderWire]

1. Ratchford 

2. Makinson

3. Connor

4. Percival

5. Grace

6. Widdop

7. Lomax

8. Watts

9. Clark

10. Graham

11. Whitehead

12. Bateman

13. Burgess S

14. Walmsley, 15. Thompson, 16. Roby, 17. Taylor

Extra cover: Burgess ×2, Hill, Williams, Hardacker,  McGillvrey, LMS

[Allora]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

As was Dessie Drummond and Jason Robinson, and in modern times Ado Carr who could well be international is not to big either.

Ado Carr is not that small though for a speedster 

Height: 183 cm (6 ft 0 in)

 

Weight: 88 kg (13 st 12 lb)

[GeordieSaint]

7 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

I expect to see Reagan Grace in the GB team, it may well be come the WC that we are ruing his unavailability.

Nah - not good enough at international level IMO (at least yet).

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Nah - not good enough at international level IMO (at least yet).

Thanks for the opinion, we will see.

[burnleywelsh]

17 hours ago, Dunbar said:

You are arguing with me and yet I agree wit you. Did you not see my post on Jack Reed?

I have an Italian wife and I am sure (and hope) that my daughter identifies as half English/British and half Italian and I would be happy for her to represent either country. 

Let me ask you, do you think Hastings and Austin fit into the same category as my daughter and your son, do you think they identify or 'feel' British? Honestly?

Look, I'm not criticising them personally, I don't even know if either has put their hand up.for selection. 

My point is that international sport should have some emotional connection otherwise it is as mercenary as the club scene. If either (or any other.player).has this connection then great. But if they don't, it just feels opportunistic...

Not arguing, just disagreeing. Sorry if you felt it was the former. I just got the impression from your post that you thought that the players in question were not 'British' enough and it was down to the fans to decide. If they qualify, they qualify. Who knows what influences they had from family as they grew up and after coming over here to play, things might have happened to reinforce that wish to represent this country. Who knows ?  Not me. 

[Dunbar]

33 minutes ago, burnleywelsh said:

Not arguing, just disagreeing. Sorry if you felt it was the former. I just got the impression from your post that you thought that the players in question were not 'British' enough and it was down to the fans to decide. If they qualify, they qualify. Who knows what influences they had from family as they grew up and after coming over here to play, things might have happened to reinforce that wish to represent this country. Who knows ?  Not me. 

Yes, not arguing. That was a bad choice of phrase.

I guess I would put it this way. As a passionate supporter of international Rugby League and Great Britain/England in particular I would want the players to share that passion and that can only come with an emotional connection. 

That may be family, that may be residence or any number of things.

My point is that with some players mentioned on this thread (nothing personal to them as I say), i would be hard pressed to see that emotional connection.