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Manfred Mann

Who would you pick for the Great Britain touring team?

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31 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I'm no Saints fan but I don't think picking Makinson, Lomax, Thompson, Roby and Walmsley in a GB 17 is controversial. For me, they are all very good players and certainly deserve a place.

Which of these would you not select?

He selected Gildart and Connor in the centres rather than Percival which I think shows he hasn't just picked Saints players as a default. 

There is only Coote at full back that could be described as favouritism for Saints but plenty of non Saints fans have him in their GB 17.

I could have picked Grace and Knowles as well as Percival but didn’t... Coote is controversial but he’s been the best GB-qualified fullback in the league this year; playing for the team 16pts clear in the table and in the Cup Final. That suggests the Saints players already in the England/Wales Elite Squads (minus Coote) must be playing fairly well... and those in the 13 are all likely to be in the dream team at the end of the year.

Edited by GeordieSaint

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41 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I'm no Saints fan but I don't think picking Makinson, Lomax, Thompson, Roby and Walmsley in a GB 17 is controversial. For me, they are all very good players and certainly deserve a place.

Which of these would you not select?

He selected Gildart and Connor in the centres rather than Percival which I think shows he hasn't just picked Saints players as a default. 

There is only Coote at full back that could be described as favouritism for Saints but plenty of non Saints fans have him in their GB 17.

And in the context of my contributions to this thread I am directing my criticism of his selection in the direction of Coote, but I think you would have really known that if you had read all through this thread.

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23 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

And in the context of my contributions to this thread I am directing my criticism of his selection in the direction of Coote, but I think you would have really known that if you had read all through this thread.

Yes, I knew that you were directing your criticism to the selection of Coote from a Saints fan.

It's just that when you said his selection of a Great Britain 17 was 'full' of nepotism I assumed you were extending that criticism to other Saints players.

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Tomkins has to be In - along with the 2 Aussie/British players (who may be picked for GB) and Roby he has been the best player in SL this season and he still has that x factor you need at that level.

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10 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

Tomkins has to be In - along with the 2 Aussie/British players (who may be picked for GB) and Roby he has been the best player in SL this season and he still has that x factor you need at that level.

Lomax has been the best player in SL this year in my admittedly bias opinion.

Superb player.

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I'm OK with Coote being picked. He's done his time with Scotland and that makes him OK in my book. Hastings and Austin - no thanks. The latter in particular is nowhere near good enough.

I'd like to see Jake Trueman in and around the squad and, possibly, the team. He doesn't seem to have had many mentions so far.

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People called Romans they go the house

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19 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

So my team first choice from that squad would be:

1. Coote 2. Makinson 3. Connor 4. Gildart 5. Hall 6. Lomax 7. Widdop

8. Thompson 9. Roby 10. T Burgess 11. Bateman 12. Whitehead 13. S Burgess

Subs: 14. Walmsley 15.Watts 16. Currie 17. Clarke

I've chosen to not pick Graham, Hill or O'Loughlin due to looking forward to the WC in 2021 and players coming through who are just as good now; Roby however, remains as he's still the best we have. Watkins is not fit yet. Watts is top draw in my opinion and deserves a chance to prove himself.

Young Walker at Leeds is a mid-term option (2021?) for full back but the early signs are Welsby could be a cracker and the long term option.

Roby has been excellant this year and so as Hodgson,  if not better . Both in the side for me as they bring different playing styles .


 "Eh Up, potty mouth. I know life hasn't been kind to you, but there's no need to parade your resentful jealousy on here." JohnM 16th April 2020

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45 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

Lomax has been the best player in SL this year in my admittedly bias opinion.

Superb player.

Lomax has been outstanding; not necessarily the best player in the league but his stats are arguably the best all round performance in terms of influence:

Coote - 14 tries - 19 assists - 15 clean breaks - 30 errors - 6.70m average gain

Williams - 13 tries - 18 assists - 16 clean breaks - 36 errors - 6.71m average gain

Evalds - 21 tries - 11 assists - 18 clean breaks - 22 errors - 7.65m average gain

Austin - 18 tries - 11 assists - 27 clean breaks - 33 errors - 6.8m average gain

Lomax - 15 tries - 20 assists - 16 clean breaks - 17 errors - 7.05m average gain

Great season so far from Lomax (as has Coote).

I will added Evalds; wider stats (assists for example) has surprised me; arguably more influential than Ratchford... 

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5 minutes ago, BULLETT said:

Roby has been excellant this year and so as Hodgson,  if not better . Both in the side for me as they bring different playing styles .

Hodgson is developed into a cracking player; always thought he overplays for England though rather than distributing the ball faster, which always suits are style better. He'd still be a fantastic player if selected.

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8 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Hodgson is developed into a cracking player; always thought he overplays for England though rather than distributing the ball faster, which always suits are style better. He'd still be a fantastic player if selected.

Hodgson plays the NRL way , nearly all the pack play in NRL . If the referees allow the wrestle then you need Hodgson . If it is quick play the balls then yes Roby is better suited , so why not have both of them in your team . Both plan As

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 "Eh Up, potty mouth. I know life hasn't been kind to you, but there's no need to parade your resentful jealousy on here." JohnM 16th April 2020

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Hodgson is a very good hooker and rightly regarded as one of the top three in the NRL along with Cam Smith and Damien Cook.  He is closer in style to Smith as a crafty and tactically aware 9 whereas Cook is more of a running threat on the back of a fast play the ball with defenders on the floor.

But when you introduce Roby into the equation I think you have a better player than Hodgson.  His distribution is just as effective and he has become very tactically astute.  Add the running threat and a better defense and I think Roby is a more rounded player.  I would put Hodgson's short kicking game ahead of Roby but overall Roby is superior.

When Roby plays for England (over Hodgson) I think England are a better team and when they were both in Super League Roby was miles ahead of Hodgson.

Cam Smith is rightly regarded one of the very best players of all time and maybe the best hooker to ever play the game and I cannot say Roby is as good as him but I think if Roby had had a stint in the NRL he would have been a sensation and if Hogdson is spoken of as being close to Smith then Roby certainly would have been.

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I get the feeling that if Roby played in the NRL nobody would even mention Hodgson.

It's the same sort of logic that sees Heighington in a World Cup Final with Liam Farrell not even in the squad.

Edited by FearTheVee

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Roby is a total machine . As good as anything around in recent years . He makes teams tick , creates , does masses of work and is just the hub of a team . England looked far sharper with him there ,  as much as I like Hodgson and have him in the mix 

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Hodgson is like a halfback playing at hooker. He’s a very dominant influence, taking on and passing at the line, kicking from dummy half etc. 

And that’s a hard trick to pull off, so in this case I tend to agree with the NRL pundits. 

Roby is a master but he’s of the old school and much more low risk. Previously I’d have gone Roby over Hodgson but Hodgson has more in his locker.

 

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I don’t understand why people don’t choose Hodgson as starting hooker, with Roby replacing him from the bench when the opposing forwards get fatigued. That seems to me to be the most lethal choice for Great Britain.

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54 minutes ago, Manfred Mann said:

I don’t understand why people don’t choose Hodgson as starting hooker, with Roby replacing him from the bench when the opposing forwards get fatigued. That seems to me to be the most lethal choice for Great Britain.

I’ve little doubt Hodgson will be picked by Bennett as the starting hooker

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20 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

Tomkins has to be In - along with the 2 Aussie/British players (who may be picked for GB) and Roby he has been the best player in SL this season and he still has that x factor you need at that level.

In what? The stands watching with the other paying attendees? That’s the only place Sam Tomkins should be. It’s Coote or Ratchford at 1. No one else. 

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1 hour ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

In what? The stands watching with the other paying attendees? That’s the only place Sam Tomkins should be. It’s Coote or Ratchford at 1. No one else. 

Wernt his last games for England last year at halfback?

On his day still Englands most talented player.

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On 18/08/2019 at 13:40, BULLETT said:

Starting team

full back Coote 

wings; Hall ,  Makinson

centres; Bateman, Connor

halfbacks; Williams, Widdop 

pack ; Graham, Hodgson, T Burgess, Whitehead, Farrell, S Burgess 

subs Sutton, Roby, walmsley, G Burgess 

Fair enough and I've given you an up tick. 

However, Hardaker is in form and is also kicking well. I would find an alternative left wing.

Smithies should be in the wider squad.

The squad itself will to a significant degree be dependent on what teams make the top 5. And fitness. 

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6 hours ago, FearTheVee said:

I get the feeling that if Roby played in the NRL nobody would even mention Hodgson.

It's the same sort of logic that sees Heighington in a World Cup Final with Liam Farrell not even in the squad.

Did you see the Storm Raiders game last week?

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12 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Lomax is a decent SL player but is slow and cant make a break, Tomkins has been and done it all and can break a line so let's agree to agree your wrong lad.

Tomkins is a fit in the wider squad. Fullback, 6 or 7. Kicks. Useful to have available.

With Gale unfit, 7 is Widdop and 6 would be Williams.  I would play Graham even if he had his feet chopped off!

Widdop remember was effectively forced to play fullback in the last WC.  Today we have a number of strong options at fullback and in the halves. We are not at all weak in our backs and when we see someone like Smithies at 18yrs old then we have some pretty good forwards as well!

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Ratchford

Makinson Gildart Percival Hall

Widdop Lomax

Graham Roby Thompson

Whitehead S.Burgess Bateman

-----

Hodgson Walmsley T.Burgess Watts

-----

Williams Sutton Hardaker Taylor G.Burgess Knowles McMeeken

Edited by Moove
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Hard to pick the run-on pack, isn’t it?

Tom Burgess, Alex Walmsley, Josh Hodgson, Luke Thompson, James Roby, Elliott Whitehead, John Bateman, James Graham, Sam Burgess, Morgan Knowles, Sean O’Loughlin, George Burgess, Ben Currie, Scott Taylor, Liam Watts, Ryan Sutton, Liam Farrell, Daryl Clark, Morgan Smithies.

None would look out of place in the jersey.

Even then there’s an argument for Stevie Ward, Chris Hill, Jack Hughes and others in the England EPS. 

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