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Who would you pick for the Great Britain touring team?

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39 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

New Zealand born Ben Stokes put in another unbelievable match winning performance for England Cricket. It’s been wall to wall media coverage since the victory.

Were England Cricket wrong to pick Kiwi Stokes? And can you point me to the ridicule they have faced for picking him, which apparently we would face if we pick players born outside the UK? 

G'day, You didn't dissapoint me Kev, I was waiting for that one, let me give you a little list of what Cricket has done over the years, it us their norm and yes I don't agree with anyone who has not spent a lot if their formative years over here, like Coote, Hastings and Austin, they are true Aussies, 

Country of birth Number Players
India 17 K.S. Ranjitsinhji, Teddy Wynyard, Richard Young, Neville Tufnell, Douglas Jardine, Duleepsinhji, Nawab of Pataudi Sr., Errol Holmes, Norman Mitchell-Innes, George Emmett, Colin Cowdrey, John Jameson, Bob Woolmer, Robin Jackman, Nasser Hussain, Vikram Solanki, Min Patel.
South Africa 17 Basil D’Oliviera, Tony Greig, Ian Greig, Allan Lamb, Chris Smith, Robin Smith, Andrew Strauss, Kevin Pietersen, Matt Prior, Jonathan Trott, Craig Kieswetter, Jade Dernbach, Stuart Meaker, Michael Lumb, Jason Roy, Keaton Jennings, Tom Curran.
Wales 14 Johnnie Clay, Robert Croft, Jeff Jones, Tony Lewis, Austin Matthews, Hugh Morris, Gilbert Parkhouse, Pat Pocock, Greg Thomas, Maurice Turnbull, Cyril Walters, Steve Watkin, Allan Watkins, Simon Jones.
Australia 10 Billy Murdoch, John Ferris, Sammy Woods, Albert Trott, Gubby Allen, Adam Hollioake, Ben Hollioake, Jason Gallian, Tim Ambrose, Sam Robson.
Scotland 9 Mike Denness, Gavin Hamilton, Alec Kennedy, David Larter, Gregor MacGregor, Ian Peebles, Eric Russell, Dougie Brown, Peter Such.
Republic of Ireland 5 Leland Hone, Sir Tim O'Brien, Frederick Fane, Ed Joyce, Eoin Morgan.
Barbados 4 Roland Butcher, Gladstone Small, Chris Jordan, Jofra Archer.
Northern Ireland 3 Joseph McMaster, Martin McCague, Boyd Rankin.
Zimbabwe 3 Graeme Hick, Paul Parker, Gary Ballance.
Germany 2 Donald Carr, Paul Terry.
Guyana 2 Chris Lewis, Monte Lynch.
Jamaica 2 Norman Cowans, Devon Malcolm.
Kenya 2 Derek Pringle, Jamie Dalrymple.
New Zealand 2 Andy Caddick, Ben Stokes.
Pakistan 2 Usman Afzaal, Owais Shah.
Trinidad and Tobago 2 Lord Harris, Pelham Warner.
St Vincent and the Grenadines 2 Wilf Slack, Neil Williams.
Zambia 2 Phil Edmonds, Neal Radford.
Denmark 1 Amjad Khan.
Dominica 1 Phillip DeFreitas.
Hong Kong 1 Dermot Reeve.
Italy 1 Ted Dexter.
Papua New Guinea 1 Geraint Jones.
Peru 1 Freddie Brown.
St Kitts and Nevis 1 Joey Benjamin.

Have it your way, as you said you don't consider our home grown are good enough, may I just say I consider those comments rather pathetic, anyway as per Saturday Coote or Ratchford?

Edited by Harry Stottle

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On 24/08/2019 at 13:42, Dunbar said:

Because he has scored more tries and made fewer errors than all the others?

So are you saying "stats" are a definitive guide to form for International selection, earlier in this thread, "tounge in cheek" when someone posted the current stats highlighting our stand off's performances I suggested that the best English No 6 in that list was Mark Sneyd, and he most probably also has the best kicking game of those listed!

Do I expect him to even get a consideration for selection, not a chance.

I think these lists of performance values are good fun to look at, but there are far more implications that make a player, things like the team they play in, the methods and strategies employed by the coach, the player's around them, etc, etc, e.g. take Lachlan Coote out of the Saints team this season and put in Leeds Rhino's, I know he compliments the Saints team, but would he have had the same impact at Headingley, I rather much doubt it.

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10 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

So are you saying "stats" are a definitive guide to form for International selection, earlier in this thread, "tounge in cheek" when someone posted the current stats highlighting our stand off's performances I suggested that the best English No 6 in that list was Mark Sneyd, and he most probably also has the best kicking game of those listed!

Do I expect him to even get a consideration for selection, not a chance.

I think these lists of performance values are good fun to look at, but there are far more implications that make a player, things like the team they play in, the methods and strategies employed by the coach, the player's around them, etc, etc, e.g. take Lachlan Coote out of the Saints team this season and put in Leeds Rhino's, I know he compliments the Saints team, but would he have had the same impact at Headingley, I rather much doubt it.

No, I don't think stats are a definitive guide to international selection.  My comment that you quoted was specifically about why Handley made a list published earlier.

When picking players the best way is to use sensible judgement based on knowledge and experience.  But stats do back up what you say.  For example, on another thread about hookers I said that I felt there was too much negative play in Josh Hodgson's game for him to be considered a great player... and a look at the stats shows that he is top of error count for hookers in the NRL and in the top 3 for missed tackles and penalties conceded.  In this sense, stats can be useful.

In a sport where contribution can be measured effectively, as with the modern NRL, I would suggest if you looked at the stats and just picked the full back with the most tackle busts, the wingers with the most run metres, the centres with the most line breaks, the half backs with the most try and line break assists, the middle forwards with the most run metres, the edge forwards with the most tackle busts and the hooker with the most possessions then you would have a great team when you looked at the names.

It wouldn't be the best team you could select from the NRL but it wouldn't be far off.

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54 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

In a sport where contribution can be measured effectively, as with the modern NRL, I would suggest if you looked at the stats and just picked the full back with the most tackle busts, the wingers with the most run metres, the centres with the most line breaks, the half backs with the most try and line break assists, the middle forwards with the most run metres, the edge forwards with the most tackle busts and the hooker with the most possessions then you would have a great team when you looked at the names.

I had to have a look and for the 2019 NRL season the team would be:

1.       James Tedesco

2.       Ken Maumalo

3.       Bronson Xerri

4.       Jason Croker

5.       Daniel Tupou

6.       Luke Keary

7.       Mitchell Moses

8.       David Klemmer

9.       Cameron Smith

10.   Payne Haas

11.   John Bateman

12.   David Fifita

13.   Jason Taumalolo

I'm not sure the centres are the best you could pick in the NRL today (although not far off) but the rest of that team looks very good.

Edited by Dunbar

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1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

I had to have a look and for the 2019 NRL season the team would be:

1.       James Tedesco

2.       Ken Maumalo

3.       Bronson Xerri

4.       Jason Croker

5.       Daniel Tupou

6.       Luke Keary

7.       Mitchell Moses

8.       David Klemmer

9.       Cameron Smith

10.   Payne Haas

11.   John Bateman

12.   David Fifita

13.   Jason Taumalolo

I'm not sure the centres are the best you could pick in the NRL today (although not far off) but the rest of that team looks very good.

Yep certainly get your point, but as we have already established or at least I suggested individual statistics can/are influenced by other contributory factors especially in the offensive side of the game,  I would suggest that the defensive attributes and mistakes made take on a more personal aspect.

Let's take this a step further, how would you rate Mr Sinfield and his international career? on a stats record in the domestic game, for me he would be ticking a lot of boxes and be near the top especially for the offensive portion of his game, and again it is a personal observation to me that he prooved on a number of occasions that the influence he displayed in the domestic game he could not transfer to the international arena, it was it seemed to me to fast for him to display his skills effectively. 

So whilst I agree with you that stats give an indication of an individual's performance level I consider your other statement to use sensible judgement based on knowledge and experience much nearer the criteria required, so for me Kevin's regular selection was not based on knowledge and expierience of seeing him perform - and may I add against the other big two nations - but more in optimism of him producing his club form rather than of expectation of him doing so.

As I said my opinion.

 

Edited by Harry Stottle

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1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

I had to have a look and for the 2019 NRL season the team would be:

1.       James Tedesco

2.       Ken Maumalo

3.       Bronson Xerri

4.       Jason Croker

5.       Daniel Tupou

6.       Luke Keary

7.       Mitchell Moses

8.       David Klemmer

9.       Cameron Smith

10.   Payne Haas

11.   John Bateman

12.   David Fifita

13.   Jason Taumalolo

I'm not sure the centres are the best you could pick in the NRL today (although not far off) but the rest of that team looks very good.

I am sure you can do it yourself, but big influences in the Australian selection process are of the rep players in the Origin series and those who compete in the Grand Final, obviously the latter has not yet occured but it will be interesting to see who would be left out from the Stats team you publish and the Origin player's who are already internationals who miss out.

Edited by Harry Stottle

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7 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Let's take this a step further, how would you rate Mr Sinfield and his international career? on a stats record in the domestic game, for me he would be ticking a lot of boxes and be near the top especially for the offensive portion of his game, and again it is a personal observation to me that he prooved on a number of occasions that the influence he displayed in the domestic game he could not transfer to the international arena, it was it seemed to me to fast for him to display his skills effectively. 

I think Sinfield was an interesting one.

His skill set included very good tactical nous and I felt he was hamstrung by captaining Peacock at club level and then Peacock was his captain at international level.

Personally, I would have picked him, made him captain and built the team around him... or not selected him at all.

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59 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I think Sinfield was an interesting one.

His skill set included very good tactical nous and I felt he was hamstrung by captaining Peacock at club level and then Peacock was his captain at international level.

Personally, I would have picked him, made him captain and built the team around him... 

As did Mr McNamara in 2013, he named him captain and one of the 2 starting half's fully 9 month's before the competition commenced, the rest as they say is history.

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On 17/08/2019 at 15:24, Harry Stottle said:

What, when the domestic season is over and done with, apart from anyone else it would upset those player's more than anyone decrying them the opportunity to reach the pinnacle of their sport playing for the Great Britain Rugby League Lions kind of has a ring to it doesn't it.

I was being sarcastic I know they would play.

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