Attendances,Gate Money and figures

[Rhinoferg]

Having watched the super league show the other night it was evident that the grounds ( like most of the season) have looked a bit empty! 

So I did a bit of googling,some maths and worked out approximately how much each club receives for a home game based on it's average attendance this season,and based on an average of £25 a ticket (yes I know some pay less and some pay more) 

For example, Huddersfield's average gate is 5,271, (£131,775) so if they wanted to fill the ground (capacity 24,500) then to receive a similar gate money they could drop the tickets to £6, surely people would go if it was this cheap ( and they would buy food which adds to the overall receipts)

Leeds average 12682 (£317,050) they could reduce to £16 and receive the same money for a full house.

The game needs bums on seats, because the more interest,the more the word is spread.

I remember 10 years ago going to Wigan to watch Leeds in the 'big one' £10 a ticket, it was a full house more or less.

Thoughts people?

[GUBRATS]

18 minutes ago, Rhinoferg said:

Having watched the super league show the other night it was evident that the grounds ( like most of the season) have looked a bit empty! 

So I did a bit of googling,some maths and worked out approximately how much each club receives for a home game based on it's average attendance this season,and based on an average of £25 a ticket (yes I know some pay less and some pay more) 

For example, Huddersfield's average gate is 5,271, (£131,775) so if they wanted to fill the ground (capacity 24,500) then to receive a similar gate money they could drop the tickets to £6, surely people would go if it was this cheap ( and they would buy food which adds to the overall receipts)

Leeds average 12682 (£317,050) they could reduce to £16 and receive the same money for a full house.

The game needs bums on seats, because the more interest,the more the word is spread.

I remember 10 years ago going to Wigan to watch Leeds in the 'big one' £10 a ticket, it was a full house more or less.

Thoughts people?

So Wigan V Leeds sold out ? , Would Wigan V Salford similarly sell out ?

Price is a consideration for the amount of people attending , also is the quality of the home team , the quality and relevance of the opposition , wether the game is televised and the day and time of the game

It really isn't jus as simple as price , however if I was a club owner I would budget for one game per year to be free entry as a marketing tool to try to increase my support base 

[Eddie]

I doubt Huddersfield would sell out at £6 a ticket, though even if they doubled their gate there’d be knock ons with refreshments and merchandise. 

[whatmichaelsays]

26 minutes ago, Rhinoferg said:

Having watched the super league show the other night it was evident that the grounds ( like most of the season) have looked a bit empty! 

So I did a bit of googling,some maths and worked out approximately how much each club receives for a home game based on it's average attendance this season,and based on an average of £25 a ticket (yes I know some pay less and some pay more) 

For example, Huddersfield's average gate is 5,271, (£131,775) so if they wanted to fill the ground (capacity 24,500) then to receive a similar gate money they could drop the tickets to £6, surely people would go if it was this cheap ( and they would buy food which adds to the overall receipts)

Leeds average 12682 (£317,050) they could reduce to £16 and receive the same money for a full house.

The game needs bums on seats, because the more interest,the more the word is spread.

I remember 10 years ago going to Wigan to watch Leeds in the 'big one' £10 a ticket, it was a full house more or less.

Thoughts people?

I don't believe that there really is that much supressed demand due to ticket prices. 

You cite Huddersfield - a club that has for some years now offered season tickets at around £100 - less than half what most clubs charge. They've even let fans in for free on a number of occasions and not achieved anything close to a full house. 

We are one of the cheapest professional sports you can watch in the UK. I genuinely don't believe that ticket prices are the issue - the issue is the product and how the clubs are selling it.  

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I doubt Huddersfield would sell out at £6 a ticket, though even if they doubled their gate there’d be knock ons with refreshments and merchandise. 

Do they make any income out of refreshment sales ? , Some clubs do , some don't , how much extra merchandise sales do you think they'd make out of people who will only attend on rock bottom prices ?

[Eddie]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Do they make any income out of refreshment sales ? , Some clubs do , some don't , how much extra merchandise sales do you think they'd make out of people who will only attend on rock bottom prices ?

A bit undoubtedly, but agree not a great deal. 

I assume clubs make money from refreshment sales though, why wouldn’t they be able to make a profit on that?

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

A bit undoubtedly, but agree not a great deal. 

I assume clubs make money from refreshment sales though, why wouldn’t they be able to make a profit on that?

It depends wether they own and or operate the stadium , Wigan make no money out of refreshment sales , Leigh , no , Hull , not sure but guess at no 

[SSoutherner]

If you expand the crowd you have to expand stewarding (the max ratios are set in law I believe) so there is an attendant cost

Also I am not sure if crowd stewards come under SIA rules but if they do for every x number of stewards you need a supervisor and for every x supervisors you need an uber supervisor etc etc, so you can see some of the costs escalate faster then the income escalates form more bums on seats. That is why in the hospitality industry they have hugely complex "yield management" software to take into account all of these things and allow them to find the sweet spot on occupancy rates for hotels for instance

[Essai Machine]

It's the match day experience and the nostalgia it generates which causes normally business-savvy millionaires to pump millions into their teams .

[Cardypaul]

I think there is scope to do what Leeds United did and price according to their opponents normal prices for big draws and charge less money for less attractive opponents 

[bobbruce]

Isn’t this basically Bradford’s old business plan. 

[Eddie]

44 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

It depends wether they own and or operate the stadium , Wigan make no money out of refreshment sales , Leigh , no , Hull , not sure but guess at no 

Thanks for clearing that up Gubrats, I had no idea, terrible deal for the clubs. 

[superten]

1 hour ago, Rhinoferg said:

Having watched the super league show the other night it was evident that the grounds ( like most of the season) have looked a bit empty! 

So I did a bit of googling,some maths and worked out approximately how much each club receives for a home game based on it's average attendance this season,and based on an average of £25 a ticket (yes I know some pay less and some pay more) 

For example, Huddersfield's average gate is 5,271, (£131,775) so if they wanted to fill the ground (capacity 24,500) then to receive a similar gate money they could drop the tickets to £6, surely people would go if it was this cheap ( and they would buy food which adds to the overall receipts)

Leeds average 12682 (£317,050) they could reduce to £16 and receive the same money for a full house.

The game needs bums on seats, because the more interest,the more the word is spread.

I remember 10 years ago going to Wigan to watch Leeds in the 'big one' £10 a ticket, it was a full house more or less.

Thoughts people?

I think £20 should be about right . With £10 concessions and kids £5

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I don't believe that there really is that much supressed demand due to ticket prices. 

You cite Huddersfield - a club that has for some years now offered season tickets at around £100 - less than half what most clubs charge. They've even let fans in for free on a number of occasions and not achieved anything close to a full house. 

We are one of the cheapest professional sports you can watch in the UK. I genuinely don't believe that ticket prices are the issue - the issue is the product and how the clubs are selling it.  

I think much of this is right. Just lowering prices hasn't seen Hudds almost fill the stadium. There has to be the level of demand in the first place that you can tap into. It will have some impact as you can help to create and stimulate the demand, but it is a stretch to think that you can improve your crowds by 4-500% just through cheap pricing. 

I don't fully agree with your last paragraph though. I think we do need to put some care into our pricing structures, and maybe a little more creativity. I agree with a couple of the suggestions posted by others. 

Certainly in the North West of England we are a bit spoilt with world class football, and some of the ticket prices for cup games (and even European games) can be pretty cheap, often tickets can be found for cheaper than a regular Super League game. I think we can describe our lowest ticket prices as reasonable, but not necessarily cheap. 

[Derwent]

Don't forget that admission prices are inclusive of VAT. So if a club charges £20 for a ticket they only actually get £16.67 of it.

[Dave T]

A few comparable prices. Cheapest Adult Prices:

Lancs T20 - £12

Lancs County Championship - £10

Man City Prem League - £24

Man Utd Prem League - £36

Sheff Utd Prem League - £29

Prem League Darts - £23

Athletics Grand Prix - £25

For Football cup games ticket prices are generally much cheaper. We have a lot of competition, people can get top class sport for prices not dis-similar to what we pay. Now that is fine generally, as personally I'd rather watch a standard SL game for £24 than a Man City game - but I am in the minority. 

I'm not saying we need to reduce our prices, but I think we need to be aware of how the world around us is changing. I would be looking at a wider spread of ticket prices, starting cheaper and with more premium experiences available. 

[philipw]

26 minutes ago, Dave T said:

A few comparable prices. Cheapest Adult Prices:

Lancs T20 - £12

Lancs County Championship - £10

Man City Prem League - £24

Man Utd Prem League - £36

Sheff Utd Prem League - £29

Prem League Darts - £23

Athletics Grand Prix - £25

For Football cup games ticket prices are generally much cheaper. We have a lot of competition, people can get top class sport for prices not dis-similar to what we pay. Now that is fine generally, as personally I'd rather watch a standard SL game for £24 than a Man City game - but I am in the minority. 

I'm not saying we need to reduce our prices, but I think we need to be aware of how the world around us is changing. I would be looking at a wider spread of ticket prices, starting cheaper and with more premium experiences available. 

Just to correct that - cheapest adult tickets at MUFC are £29

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, philipw said:

Just to correct that - cheapest adult tickets at MUFC are £29

Cheers, just going off this link, haven't delved any deeper than that.

 

https://www.manutd.com/en/tickets-and-hospitality/match-tickets

EDIT: the £29 looks like a young adult concession, I haven't included these, or pensioner concessions in the above.

[Tommygilf]

23 minutes ago, Dave T said:

A few comparable prices. Cheapest Adult Prices:

Lancs T20 - £12

Lancs County Championship - £10

Man City Prem League - £24

Man Utd Prem League - £36

Sheff Utd Prem League - £29

Prem League Darts - £23

Athletics Grand Prix - £25

For Football cup games ticket prices are generally much cheaper. We have a lot of competition, people can get top class sport for prices not dis-similar to what we pay. Now that is fine generally, as personally I'd rather watch a standard SL game for £24 than a Man City game - but I am in the minority. 

I'm not saying we need to reduce our prices, but I think we need to be aware of how the world around us is changing. I would be looking at a wider spread of ticket prices, starting cheaper and with more premium experiences available. 

We also have the problem that most clubs will play at home maybe 15 times a season including 1 cup game? Compared to say football we just don't offer that much sport full stop. Less is sometimes more but we effectively don't play anything meaningful (other than 1 England international a week for 3 weeks if we're lucky) for 4 months of the year. I have my own ideas in terms of changing the structure of the challenge cup and fitting in more internationals but what can we say when we only host events at home grounds 15 or so weeks out of 52? 

Our major benefit in this regards however is that our season tickets are much cheaper than our competitors for example. But this has a flip side in that we have a large contingent who will moan about prices of tickets or games being played in far flung places because we don't have enough fans to drown those out.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

We also have the problem that most clubs will play at home maybe 15 times a season including 1 cup game? Compared to say football we just don't offer that much sport full stop. Less is sometimes more but we effectively don't play anything meaningful (other than 1 England international a week for 3 weeks if we're lucky) for 4 months of the year. I have my own ideas in terms of changing the structure of the challenge cup and fitting in more internationals but what can we say when we only host events at home grounds 15 or so weeks out of 52? 

Our major benefit in this regards however is that our season tickets are much cheaper than our competitors for example. But this has a flip side in that we have a large contingent who will moan about prices of tickets or games being played in far flung places because we don't have enough fans to drown those out.

Yes, I often make this point when we end up with threads around playing fewer games because American Football do that. We aren't competing with them for live audiences. 

[philipw]

10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Cheers, just going off this link, haven't delved any deeper than that.

 

https://www.manutd.com/en/tickets-and-hospitality/match-tickets

EDIT: the £29 looks like a young adult concession, I haven't included these, or pensioner concessions in the above.

No, cheapest adult season ticket in the Stretford End & East Stand (the purple bits) are £522. Divide that by 19 = £27.50 per game Actually cheaper than I originally calculated). 

[Dave T]

Just now, philipw said:

No, cheapest adult season ticket in the Stretford End & East Stand (the purple bits) are £522. Divide that by 19 = £27.50 per game Actually cheaper than I originally calculated). 

That isn't what this exercise is doing mate. 

The prices I quoted were cheapest standard matchday adult tickets. i.e. you don't need to be a season ticket holder, but you can attend these sports for a relatively similar price to a standard Super League game. 

[M j M]

Price elasticity of demand is a fiendishly more complicated topic than the OP's post. 

I suspect Rugby League has pretty inelastic demand, ie you can bump up or down the prices within reason and the crowd movement won't be proportionate. What seems to annoy fans most is the increase on the previously established price.

 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

3 hours ago, Eddie said:

I doubt Huddersfield would sell out at £6 a ticket, though even if they doubled their gate there’d be knock ons with refreshments and merchandise. 

Huddersfield did a free entry for everyone one game and the stadium was on about half full. They also did dirt cheap season tickets, but it had little effect on their attendances. 

Marketing is more important than price IMO, although I do think ticket prices have gone too high across the board, I have a season ticket but have cut back on away games due to cost. 

[redjonn]

I enjoy watching the games but typically the whole experience outside of the actual game  can be dreadful... starting from parking (within reasonable distance of walking especially for not so healthy) and travel, amenities and food, etc etc... I may be in a minority but other entertainment is less painful to attend and watch.

i.e. not just pricing