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Relegation

Sir Kevin Sinfield

Who will go down?  

122 members have voted

  1. 1. Who do you think will go down?

    • London
      34
    • Hull kr
      26
    • Huddersfield
      39
    • Wakefield
      19
    • Leeds
      4

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Tommygilf

Tommygilf

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Other clubs could do that

Precisely, and European sporting leagues have for over a 100 years agreed that the fairest way to do that is to relegate the poorest performing teams and promote the best from below to give them a chance. As qualitatively there is minimal difference.

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Sir Kevin Sinfield

Sir Kevin Sinfield

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

1,166,425 watched Super League games in 2018, 1,291,760 have watched Super League games this year and we’re a few rounds from the season ending. That’s an increase of 10.75%. 

We’ve also broken the attendance record for Super League this year. 

2012 average 10,151

2019 average 8,390

How have we possibly broken the attendance record this year?

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Oliver Clothesoff

Oliver Clothesoff

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

2012 average 10,151

2019 average 8,390

How have we possibly broken the attendance record this year?

There were an additional two sides in Super League in 2012, compared with now. Is that a fair comparison?

Catalans v Wigan at Barcelona broke the individual attendance record for Super League in May this year. 

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Tommygilf

Tommygilf

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Not all european sporting leagues. And if you are relying on tradition as your defence then are on to a losing argument as P+R isnt the tradition in Rugby League.

Ok, almost all major sports in countries with populations counted in the millions if you want to be picky. Only major sport without P/R I can think of is GAA and even then that is competed on regional and then national level.

I'm not relying upon tradition. Even so in RL that is a flawed argument as for a large portion it was all one league as clubs, unlike their counterparts in the football league, did not commit to a full multi league system and consistently and chopped and changed. Never the less the situation for at least the past 30 years has been one with multiple leagues and for the most part the potential of movement between. 

You still ignore the fact that there is minimal qualitative difference outside the top teams in SL for who else is in the comp. Salford or Halifax? Widnes or Wakefield? Bradford or Hull KR? Huddersfield or Leigh? I've said previously on this thread that expansion clubs are different in terms of what they bring to the SL table, but for the rest its clear to see there is minimal qualitative difference and certainly not enough to distinguish between them for a franchised system.

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Sir Kevin Sinfield

Sir Kevin Sinfield

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23 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

There were an additional two sides in Super League in 2012, compared with now. Is that a fair comparison?

Catalans v Wigan at Barcelona broke the individual attendance record for Super League in May this year. 

If more teams in the league is the reason for the higher average attendance figure, it would be insane not to expand Super League.

Surely the Catalans record is included in this year’s average? So again how can the average be so low but break the total attendance record?

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Oliver Clothesoff

Oliver Clothesoff

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6 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

If more teams in the league is the reason for the higher average attendance figure, it would be insane not to expand Super League.

Surely the Catalans record is included in this year’s average? So again how can the average be so low but break the total attendance record?

That’s not the only reason why any league should be expanded. 

Who knows but we’ve beaten the accumulative figure from last year with weeks to spare and had the biggest attendance in Super League history this year, it’s not been a failure of a year at all and obsessing over crowds is futile. 

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GUBRATS

GUBRATS

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55 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Not all european sporting leagues. And if you are relying on tradition as your defence then are on to a losing argument as P+R isnt the tradition in Rugby League.

When we've had more than one division ? 

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GUBRATS

GUBRATS

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Even in Super league. A season in SL without P+R is far from unique. 

Not much less than half of SL seasons haven't seen a club promoted or relegated. 

For the vast majority of multi division seasons in RL we have had mechanisms for automatic promotion and relegation based on on field performance 

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GUBRATS

GUBRATS

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Ice hockey, basketball, many rugby union leagues, lots of different sports dont use P+R. It is largely the outlier not the default.

And over the last 24 years of Super league it has by no means been common enough to be the default 

There is substantial qualitative difference between those clubs. I'm not sure why are pretending there isnt. Widnes were bust a few months ago, leigh needed help to finish the season, bradford have no home and no money, why are you pretending qualitatively these clubs are the same? They obviously arent.

And even if they weren't, if there is no qualitative difference between the clubs why structure your whole game around swapping them between leagues and bringing in all the negatives and instability that brings? 

It makes no sense whatsoever that the priority of the game should be to swap clubs there is no qualitative between

Ice hockey and basketball ? , Is that the best you can do ? , that and the amateur friendlies of union , you really are an laugh at times 

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Old Frightful

Old Frightful

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3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Is that based on crowd figures so about 11,000 to 8,000 in FC's favour?

Summat like that mate.

                                                                     Hull FC....The Sons of God...
                                                                     (Well, we are about to be crucified on Good Friday)
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redjonn

redjonn

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Ice hockey, basketball, many rugby union leagues, lots of different sports dont use P+R. It is largely the outlier not the default.

And over the last 24 years of Super league it has by no means been common enough to be the default 

There is substantial qualitative difference between those clubs. I'm not sure why are pretending there isnt. Widnes were bust a few months ago, leigh needed help to finish the season, bradford have no home and no money, why are you pretending qualitatively these clubs are the same? They obviously arent.

And even if they weren't, if there is no qualitative difference between the clubs why structure your whole game around swapping them between leagues and bringing in all the negatives and instability that brings? 

It makes no sense whatsoever that the priority of the game should be to swap clubs there is no qualitative between

I agree with regards to the qualitative difference between clubs... The low salary cap means that teams may be more equal on average due to that restriction. Whereas their is a huge difference between clubs.

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redjonn

redjonn

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Ice hockey and basketball ? , Is that the best you can do ? , that and the amateur friendlies of union , you really are an laugh at times 

netball super league.. to add another... to also give you another chuckle.. although netball is very successful growing sport at the moment.

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GUBRATS

GUBRATS

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, redjonn said:

netball super league.. to add another... to also give you another chuckle.. although netball is very successful growing sport at the moment.

How about ' rounders ' ? , Do they have it ? ,  Scotchy likes that a lot 

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Dunbar

Dunbar

Posted
Posted

Sport is about passion, enjoyment and the thrill of seeing your team succeed or the heartbreak of seeing your team fail (and then the hope that they will bounce back).

When I look back on watching Rugby League, the highlights are not which period provided the greatest stability or which year my team 'added most to the pie' it was watching the games and experiencing the joy of winning and (after some time to let it pass) the pain of losing.

If we take this joy and pain away we are on the road to sterility.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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redjonn

redjonn

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Sport is about passion, enjoyment and the thrill of seeing your team succeed or the heartbreak of seeing your team fail (and then the hope that they will bounce back).

When I look back on watching Rugby League, the highlights are not which period provided the greatest stability or which year my team 'added most to the pie' it was watching the games and experiencing the joy of winning and (after some time to let it pass) the pain of losing.

If we take this joy and pain away we are on the road to sterility.

yep, but you still get that even if no relegation given the discussion above... certainly if a big play on being the club with the wooden spoon.... and the incoming banter associated.  Maybe if not relegated the pain is not so intense... but I guess the argument is whether having relegation increases attendance in addition to watching for the passion, enjoyment and thrill, etc.    Although it increases wider interest.

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GUBRATS

GUBRATS

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

European basketball and ice hockey are far far bigger sports than RL 

Yes and they are both sports that have never had P and R , so they don't know what they are missing , also they are imported sports , not sports that were born in the communities that currently play in them 

Do we need P and R in UK Baseball ? , No , how about gridiron ? , No 

Your argument is lost , learn to live with it , you are a Leeds fan after all 

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Harry Stottle

Harry Stottle

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Not all european sporting leagues. And if you are relying on tradition as your defence then are on to a losing argument as P+R isnt the tradition in Rugby League.

Now now Scotchy we operated a league structure of one division for most of those years so it was totally impossible to have P&R,  we had two divisions albeit regional at the begining of the 20th centuary for a couple of seasons then it went to one division, went back to 2 divisions in the early 60's for 2 seasons, then in 73/74 we went back to 2 divisions were we have  been since and included the 3rd division along the way.

A truer reflection would be to analyse since the inception of 2 or more divisions in 73/74 how many of those years have and have not operated P&R, that is a better indicator and would be the tradition of the New Era not the Old Era of a one division system, and I would suggest we will never ever revert back to a single division of all Professional clubs. 

I will suggest you will come back with some silly counter claim to substantiate your argument or not answer at all if proven wrong as your track record prooves.

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GUBRATS

GUBRATS

Posted
Posted
Just now, scotchy1 said:

They are quite comfortable with what they are missing. 

As are the NRL and the PRO14 and lots and lots and lots of other sports far more successful than RL.

Fine , good for them , have you asked them that ? , You've ' polled ' the fans of 2nd tier professional ice hockey and Basketball teams ?

Have you ?

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GUBRATS

GUBRATS

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

We arent that far away from having a single division of professional clubs right now.

Expand SL to 14 and we are pretty much there

So who are you adding to the 6 we currently have ?

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GUBRATS

GUBRATS

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

There are only so many times you can play dumb before people believe you are who you say you are

You'd be the expert there , I do admire at times your squirming and turning , it is most amusing 

Go on , call me a ' middle aged man ' again like you've done in the past , its what you usually do when you're getting an ass wupping 

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