Oliver Clothesoff Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 14 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said: There's 16 points between 1st and 2nd in Super League. Freak outcomes sometimes happen. Every year like in the Championship? The disparity at that level is huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav Wilson Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: Every year like in the Championship? The disparity at that level is huge. As I said: It isn't a structural issue, it's a money issue. @GavWilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Without the SL clubs agreeing to an increase in the size of SL this becomes almost a pointless discussion I'm afraid. The structures and aspirations of individual clubs in these lower leagues differ so much that there is always going to be a noticeable stratification. Attempting to overcome this by an artificial restructure won't help any but the really weak to develop and progress. Ultimately this will increase the gap between SL and the rest, creating an unassailable argument (by the Sl clubs) for franchising and the removal of P&R. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superten Posted August 19, 2019 Author Share Posted August 19, 2019 A championship of 8 with the returns of super 8 might appeal to Tv companies . Top four in championship play bottom four in super league like before . Bottom four in championship play top four in league one for a place in the season after championship . Scrap magic weekends in regular seasons and play then in super 8 series. With 8 teams in championship and four teams in league involved you could have rest of league one teams playing to qualify for the four remaining places in the next seasons 1895 . Chief Crazy Eagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 23 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said: As I said: It isn't a structural issue, it's a money issue. But the one goes with the other. It is a structural issue because of the money issue. It’s not one or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav Wilson Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 22 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: But the one goes with the other. It is a structural issue because of the money issue. It’s not one or the other. Right, so changing the structure (again) will achieve roughly the square root of sod all, until the league(s) find more investment. @GavWilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav Wilson Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 39 minutes ago, superten said: A championship of 8 with the returns of super 8 might appeal to Tv companies . Top four in championship play bottom four in super league like before . Bottom four in championship play top four in league one for a place in the season after championship . Scrap magic weekends in regular seasons and play then in super 8 series. With 8 teams in championship and four teams in league involved you could have rest of league one teams playing to qualify for the four remaining places in the next seasons 1895 . Please end this madness. @GavWilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said: Right, so changing the structure (again) will achieve roughly the square root of sod all, until the league(s) find more investment. Or would a restructure allow those who are at the higher end of the Championship to play in a league that is more competitive than the current one? Lets be honest, there’s not going to be more money arising from anywhere so should we moan about it or do something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Bartholemew Smythe said: WTF would you include Newcastle into that group! Because he called it North West and East??? Newcastle closest game for Workington and Whitehaven as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said: Because he called it North West and East??? Newcastle closest game for Workington and Whitehaven as well. Barrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, Spike said: Barrow Not as close to Newcastle as Worky and Haven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 4 hours ago, CanadianRugger said: Every week, the Top 7 Championship sides hammer the bottom 7. The leagues aren't comparable at all. The bottom ranked team has beaten the top ranked team in SL, twice this season. In what world is Rochdale ever coming close to beating Toronto? The top 6 or 7 clubs in Championship regularly put up cricket scores against the bottom 7. 23rd March 2018: Rochdale 17 TWP 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Blind side johnny said: Without the SL clubs agreeing to an increase in the size of SL this becomes almost a pointless discussion I'm afraid. The structures and aspirations of individual clubs in these lower leagues differ so much that there is always going to be a noticeable stratification. Attempting to overcome this by an artificial restructure won't help any but the really weak to develop and progress. Ultimately this will increase the gap between SL and the rest, creating an unassailable argument (by the Sl clubs) for franchising and the removal of P&R. Déjà vu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: 23rd March 2018: Rochdale 17 TWP 18 One example. That’s a good argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayCee Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: One example. That’s a good argument. It only takes one example and you're blown out of the water. My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/ It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course. It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Just now, RayCee said: It only takes one example and you're blown out of the water. It doesn’t. London are the best team in Super League because they beat Saints twice. See, it’s a daft statement and not a worthy argument. The league table doesn’t lie. There’s a massive disparity in the Championship every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: It doesn’t. London are the best team in Super League because they beat Saints twice. See, it’s a daft statement and not a worthy argument. The league table doesn’t lie. There’s a massive disparity in the Championship every year. Yes there is , so ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Clothesoff Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 minute ago, GUBRATS said: Yes there is , so ? He was arguing against the disparity based off one fluke result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: He was arguing against the disparity based off one fluke result. There is always a team at the top , and one at the bottom , that applies to every league in every sport every year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayCee Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 3 hours ago, RayCee said: It only takes one example and you're blown out of the water. 3 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: It doesn’t. London are the best team in Super League because they beat Saints twice. See, it’s a daft statement and not a worthy argument. The league table doesn’t lie. There’s a massive disparity in the Championship every year. I was being sarcastic about the solitary quote. I should have added an emoji to convey that. My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/ It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course. It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yipyee Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 In the championship you have Toronto who thought they were getting promoted and recruited a SL level squad last summer (when all the transfer activity occurs). This has created a team in the wrong division 'due to one freak result' as mentioned in this thread. At the other end you have rochdale who got a stay of execution and should be in league 1. It's no surprise they are struggling and like when huddersfield and York finished bottom and were not relegated they again are struggling and are bottom again. To add to this they only announced no relegation at the end of the season so Rochdale had no time to prepare a championship level squad. In fact it appears odd the decision to expand the championship leaving league 1 short of teams. Especially when we know there's a shortage of quality players. 7-8 gap in points.., well this is down to Widnes having points deducted as Widnes with full points will slot into this gap. Sheffield who dominated this division for 2 years are literally rebuilding as their ground was ripped from under them along with funding for a FT team. The key is to stop messing about with structure and stop messing with the artificial elevation of 'historic teams' that way each club finds its level and the leagues become competitive. Starting FT teams at the bottom and making them play through the structure only adds to the structure disparity as it blocks progression and leads to 1 team running away with the league. It also prevents the relegated team to mount a serious promotion challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 7 hours ago, SL17 said: There should have been more emphasis on the cap. As in part time teams being awarded a higher cap if turning full time. Higher cap for more full time players and youngsters. Toronto on say a 500k cap with a full time squad with someone like Leigh on a 300k cap with a mixture. Unfortunately or fortunately for Toronto the super 8’s system had to eventually stick everyone on potentially the same cap in order to compete. We don’t have the Super 8’s anymore but still have max cap allowance for all. Sort of, although Championship clubs have first to demonstrate an ability to finance their own individual caps. They cannot simply spend as they will without fisrt have an acceptable limit agreed with the RFL. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderofwood Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 21 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: It doesn’t. London are the best team in Super League because they beat Saints twice. See, it’s a daft statement and not a worthy argument. The league table doesn’t lie. There’s a massive disparity in the Championship every year. and there is a large disparity in funding , level that playing field and we may see a closer competition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumby Magic Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 For me it's a no. The Championship should have been 12 IMO. Very strong 12. Newcastle, Whitehaven, even us (Bulls) and York wouldn't have momentum to build on . Newcastle to go up or Newcastle mid table for 10 years? It's easy really. The only change I'd make would be the championship to 12 then leave it be with new clubs being added to League 1. Wow that was hard! Like poor jokes? Thejoketeller@mullymessiah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 5 hours ago, SL17 said: The point I'm trying to make is, at the moment any club joining L1 can use the full cap, either via a bond or whatever. If the cap was restricted as it should have been after the Super 8's were disbanded, you would have competition. The problem with further restriction of salary caps in L1 and championship (if I understand what you’re saying correctly) is that it hinders progressive clubs and makes them far less likely to be able to compete if and when they do go up. If the Championship teams were able to spend even less it would mean the winners of it would more than likely come back down every year and that would then strengthen the argument for a closed shop SL, which (imho) goes against the ethos of British sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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