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RL does what Sky says

Winning Cup by Golden Point Drop Goal ... Ideal ?

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Just a thought having considered how heartbreaking it is to lose in any cup final but probably even more so when it is via a golden point drop-goal, especially when all your team did was to kick-off and thus give their opponents an immediate opportunity to win the match from long range within their opening set of tackles.

At the moment a drawn match is then followed by two 5-minute periods during which the first score wins the game, irrespective of how that score was made.

To make it more fair to both teams - and to try and decide the match by "proper" rugby means - could it be possible for drop-goals not to be allowed within the Golden Point period or at least not until the second 5-minute session so as to at least give both teams a chance with the ball ?

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To be fair i believe that's a similar idea to how the NFL operate. If one team gets the ball from the kick off and score a field goal, then the other team get a possession to try to score themselves. I like that concept to be honest but i do feel like changing it now would be seen as just another change and be less engaged to spectators.

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1 minute ago, overtheborder said:

To be fair i believe that's a similar idea to how the NFL operate. If one team gets the ball from the kick off and score a field goal, then the other team get a possession to try to score themselves. I like that concept to be honest but i do feel like changing it now would be seen as just another change and be less engaged to spectators.

Not being a NFL follower I didn't know about that rule but it does appear to be fair. I also understand your view about constantly changing the rules.

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1 hour ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Just a thought having considered how heartbreaking it is to lose in any cup final but probably even more so when it is via a golden point drop-goal, especially when all your team did was to kick-off and thus give their opponents an immediate opportunity to win the match from long range within their opening set of tackles.

At the moment a drawn match is then followed by two 5-minute periods during which the first score wins the game, irrespective of how that score was made.

To make it more fair to both teams - and to try and decide the match by "proper" rugby means - could it be possible for drop-goals not to be allowed within the Golden Point period or at least not until the second 5-minute session so as to at least give both teams a chance with the ball ?

Drop goals are part of the game and are “proper” rugby and it’s no different getting beat by one in the 80th minute as it is in golden point.

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41 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Drop goals are part of the game and are “proper” rugby and it’s no different getting beat by one in the 80th minute as it is in golden point.

As I stated previously, I think it seems unfair that just the toss of a coin can be a deciding factor in who wins. One team has a chance with the ball just depending on who says Heads or Tails. Yes, if they score a try that's fair enough but if not then at least allow the opposition to have a go.

At least in the 80 minutes both teams have had chances to score whereas the Golden Point drop goal scenario might not offer that option to one of them.

If you don't agree that's fair enough, it was just a suggestion.

Edited by RL does what Sky says

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10 hours ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Just a thought having considered how heartbreaking it is to lose in any cup final but probably even more so when it is via a golden point drop-goal, especially when all your team did was to kick-off and thus give their opponents an immediate opportunity to win the match from long range within their opening set of tackles.

At the moment a drawn match is then followed by two 5-minute periods during which the first score wins the game, irrespective of how that score was made.

To make it more fair to both teams - and to try and decide the match by "proper" rugby means - could it be possible for drop-goals not to be allowed within the Golden Point period or at least not until the second 5-minute session so as to at least give both teams a chance with the ball ?

You will have to run it past Sky first. Here is the email address that the RFL use for such requests

Canwechangethelawsofrugbyleagueplease@sky.com

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Although it refers to American Football, I have found this on an article headlined "Golden Point" on Wikipedia .....

"Golden point has long been perceived as a particularly poor fit for gridiron-based football codes, as possession of the ball is far more secure in the game; the first team to secure possession (which is decided by coin toss) would only need to advance to field goal range and kick the winning field goal, with the opponent having no chance to possess the ball or score, thus effectively deciding the game by the random outcome of the coin toss."

That is the same view I have.

However, the same article also said the following regarding Rugby League .....

After the Australian 2015 Grand Final was decided in golden point, a change was made for finals matches only. Golden point in finals fixtures would now only be applied if scores are level after 10 minutes of extra time (five minutes each way).

I personally don't know if this is now the case in Britain but it would still not solve my initial concern as, after the extra 10 minutes, a final could still be decided with a drop-goal while the losers had not had a chance of possession in the Golden point period.

However, it appears obvious that, after that 2015 final, many people thought it was not right to win by such a method.

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On 24/08/2019 at 00:21, RL does what Sky says said:

Just a thought having considered how heartbreaking it is to lose in any cup final but probably even more so when it is via a golden point drop-goal, especially when all your team did was to kick-off and thus give their opponents an immediate opportunity to win the match from long range within their opening set of tackles.

If you kick off and the opposition get into field goal range that set, your defence hasn't been good enough to feel aggrieved. 

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50 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

If you kick off and the opposition get into field goal range that set, your defence hasn't been good enough to feel aggrieved. 

I can understand that but the fact that the first team in possession could win the game with a drop-goal from their own half (ie how far is "field-goal range" ?) does seem to make it unfair that the result could possibly depend upon the toss of the coin.

I have no problem with the first team in possession winning by a try or a penalty goal because, as you say, either their defence hasn't been good enough to prevent a try or has done something wrong for the penalty to be awarded

Edited by RL does what Sky says

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1 hour ago, RL does what Sky says said:

I can understand that but the fact that the first team in possession could win the game with a drop-goal from their own half (ie how far is "field-goal range" ?) does seem to make it unfair that the result could possibly depend upon the toss of the coin.

I have no problem with the first team in possession winning by a try or a penalty goal because, as you say, either their defence hasn't been good enough to prevent a try or has done something wrong for the penalty to be awarded

If someone was to kick a field goal from their own half, the play the ball is likely 5m into the opposition half. If you've conceded 55m in a set, conceded a quick PTB on 4th tackle and not pressured the kicker (the conditions you would need to kick a 50m drop goal), your defence still hasn't been very good but also you've lost to an impressive piece of play. How often do we see field goals kicked from a team's own half?

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3 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

If someone was to kick a field goal from their own half, the play the ball is likely 5m into the opposition half. If you've conceded 55m in a set, conceded a quick PTB on 4th tackle and not pressured the kicker (the conditions you would need to kick a 50m drop goal), your defence still hasn't been very good but also you've lost to an impressive piece of play. How often do we see field goals kicked from a team's own half?

 

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1 hour ago, RL does what Sky says said:

 

If you have to go back 30 years, that proves my point I think!

I do think the idea of each team being guaranteed a chance with the ball might add extra excitement. I just don't think you can feel harshly done to if the opposition kick a drop goal without you touching the ball. The idea of each team having a chance with the ball also makes me wonder what happens if they level it up with a drop goal. Just keep playing?

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32 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

If you have to go back 30 years, that proves my point I think!

I do think the idea of each team being guaranteed a chance with the ball might add extra excitement. I just don't think you can feel harshly done to if the opposition kick a drop goal without you touching the ball. The idea of each team having a chance with the ball also makes me wonder what happens if they level it up with a drop goal. Just keep playing?

No, I don''t have to go back 30 years. There have been others but not shown on You Tube.

"What happens if they level it up ?"   They can't level it up as the first team to score wins.   I just think it is more fair to either have no drop-goals allowed in the Golden Point period or at least until after 5 minutes has been played so that both teams have had a chance to score either a try or a penalty goal.

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I think "Golden Try, Silver Point" would be better.

If you get a try, you win straight away, but any other points only matter at the end of extra time.

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32 minutes ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Just heading up this thread I began on 24 August having now seen the item in the "Total RL" forum of this website about the NRL considering scrapping the Golden Point.

Eat your heart out Mystic Meg !

There was an NRL game last week where golden point started , the team in possession went up the field and kicked a drop goal and that was that . It did look a bit unsatisfactory . But I’d scrap golden point anyway it’s artificial , tv induced rubbish . What’s wrong with a point after flogging each other for 80 minutes . But you can have a draw after 90 .... go figure 

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10 minutes ago, DavidM said:

There was an NRL game last week where golden point started , the team in possession went up the field and kicked a drop goal and that was that . It did look a bit unsatisfactory . But I’d scrap golden point anyway it’s artificial , tv induced rubbish . What’s wrong with a point after flogging each other for 80 minutes . But you can have a draw after 90 .... go figure 

Never mind ... if Australia stop doing the Golden Point, we will (have to) do the same shortly afterwards !

Edited by RL does what Sky says

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1 hour ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Just heading up this thread I began on 24 August having now seen the item in the "Total RL" forum of this website about the NRL considering scrapping the Golden Point.

Eat your heart out Mystic Meg !

They are looking to change the current version of Golden Point, but apparently no one has a view of what to change it to.  So says TRL article.

The first try ought to seal it in first 5mins period I think, unless one side scores 2 DGs.  After 5mins then next point wins.

I wonder if (?) a penalty goal attempt should be allowed? An alternative being a yellow card?  I'm not sure the current system works, well in fact in my own mind it definitely does not, and for a final it must be quite wrong.

 

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Everyone said they didn’t like Golden Point when it was brought in because of the high proportion of games won by the team that received the ball at kick-off, so it’s little surprise that the powers that be have finally listened. 

 

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3 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

They are looking to change the current version of Golden Point, but apparently no one has a view of what to change it to.  So says TRL article.

The first try ought to seal it in first 5mins period I think, unless one side scores 2 DGs.  After 5mins then next point wins.

I wonder if (?) a penalty goal attempt should be allowed? An alternative being a yellow card?  I'm not sure the current system works, well in fact in my own mind it definitely does not, and for a final it must be quite wrong.

 

I don't mind ending the game after 80 minutes as a draw.

This "Golden Point" thing came about first of all via America where there always has to be a winner. Our culture was always different.

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