New York/Ottawa Rugby League - signs of activity

[aj1908]

7 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

That would be great if that happened Tiwit, we are seemingly at opposite ends of the spectrum, will you be hitching a lift in my TARDIS that AJ says i posses or have you got your own?

Seriously, I would love you to be correct but as I said to K'man I am here witnessing what is happening and the picture I see is as dark as the one I am painting, as I have said on more than one occasion we really need to see and learn from Toronto before opening the doors to other teams in virgin territories, anyone who thinks everything is going to be rosy are deluding themselves there will be pluses and there will be mistakes, 3 years of a yet to be signed off prototype is not enough time to evaluate the process and go into full production, and all the while the supply chain is faltering, that needs to be addressed at source not just hoping that a couple of new outlets will appease the situation.

you havent explained the link between toronto being in super league and the collapse of the game in england as you say.

toronto havent taken a single cent from the RFL so how did they cause this ?

maybe because they didnt provde the best sandwiches when league one clubs visited so their their players left the sport

[Harry Stottle]

6 hours ago, aj1908 said:

nah the game is stagnating because its spending money it doesnt have on clubs which arent viable.

if the original super league had happened the game would be way better off.

nostalgia is fine but the world has changed.  the reality is many clubs arent viable, and there is little the RFL can do to change this.

league needs to accept it doesn the money of soccer and focus on the clubs which can grow the game.

england seems to produce some very good players as shown by them starring in the nrl.

the canadians are right in what they are saying

Which clubs are you suggesting should be left behind aj being the ones you are stating are not viable and money is being wasted on them.

And, just as a matter of interest are you associated with any particular club?

[aj1908]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Which clubs are you suggesting should be left behind aj being the ones you are stating are not viable and money is being wasted on them.

And, just as a matter of interest are you associated with any particular club?

just raise the salary cap a million pounnds and see which clubs get left behind.

yes im a leigh fan

[Harry Stottle]

12 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

you havent explained the link between toronto being in super league and the collapse of the game in england as you say.

toronto havent taken a single cent from the RFL so how did they cause this ?

maybe because they didnt provde the best sandwiches when league one clubs visited so their clubs left their players left the sport

You are saying things that I haven't, or alternatively I have not explained my take on it clearly.

There is no link between Toronto and the games demise in England, nor would there be with the other new entities, I am simply stating that we do not have enough player's not are we producing enough to provide these teams, that is why we employ 90+ Southern Hemisphere guys to supplement our requirements.

Your stock answer of there are enough Aussies to fill the backfall I wonder if it is true, the player's we have in the main (not all) can't get a job in the NRL, so the next lot we are looking at are below the top level, do you realise that both the Q'land a Sydney comps (below the NRL) are televised in Australia, I wonder how long it would be if say the demand to take multiple numbers of those comps better player's away the TV companies would say "we are now paying for a comp that is not as good" will that cause the governing body of those leagues to put a stop on the drain for fear the TV companies may pull the plug? Have questions like this been asked, I don't know, but these things should be considered.

Please be honest with me AJ, on the community game other than knowing the names of teams, do you have any connection with it, are you familiar at first hand with what is happening at the grass roots or do you get your information from other sources?

[Harry Stottle]

22 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

just raise the salary cap a million pounnds and see which clubs get left behind.

yes im a leigh fan

Which ones do you think would be left behind?

[aj1908]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

You are saying things that I haven't, or alternatively I have not explained my take on it clearly.

There is no link between Toronto and the games demise in England, nor would there be with the other new entities, I am simply stating that we do not have enough player's not are we producing enough to provide these teams, that is why we employ 90+ Southern Hemisphere guys to supplement our requirements.

Your stock answer of there are enough Aussies to fill the backfall I wonder if it is true, the player's we have in the main (not all) can't get a job in the NRL, so the next lot we are looking at are below the top level, do you realise that both the Q'land a Sydney comps (below the NRL) are televised in Australia, I wonder how long it would be if say the demand to take multiple numbers of those comps better player's away the TV companies would say "we are now paying for a comp that is not as good" will that cause the governing body of those leagues to put a stop on the drain for fear the TV companies may pull the plug? Have questions like this been asked, I don't know, but these things should be considered.

Please be honest with me AJ, on the community game other than knowing the names of teams, do you have any connection with it, are you familiar at first hand with what is happening at the grass roots or do you get your information from other sources?

the nsw and qld cups are worth nothing to tv companies.  

australia produces loads of players.  given the level of super league they are good enough for the game.  there would be hundreds of players who could make the step up to super league who cant make it in t he nrl regularly.

toronto have the cash to afford good players.  its not even like they are taking away imports from the weaker clubs because they can afford the best imports, which not many clubs can.

so since theres no actual link between toronto's rise and the decline of the community game, we can assume that toronto can take their place in super league without fear of causing the further collapse of the english game.

theres people who say the same about australian junior game collapsing.  yet they just keep producing nrl players like a sausage factory churns out its product

and look how many english stars there are in the nrl.  its a record.  so it seems producing good players in numbers isnt that much of a problem in england

[aj1908]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

Which ones do you think would be left behind?

the ones who cant afford a higher salary cap lol

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, aj1908 said:

the ones who cant afford a higher salary cap lol

You can do better than that, name names please

[Harry Stottle]

5 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

the nsw and qld cups are worth nothing to tv companies.  

australia produces loads of players.  given the level of super league they are good enough for the game.  there would be hundreds of players who could make the step up to super league who cant make it in t he nrl regularly.

toronto have the cash to afford good players.  its not even like they are taking away imports from the weaker clubs because they can afford the best imports, which not many clubs can.

so since theres no actual link between toronto's rise and the decline of the community game, we can assume that toronto can take their place in super league without fear of causing the further collapse of the english game.

theres people who say the same about australian junior game collapsing.  yet they just keep producing nrl players like a sausage factory churns out its product

and look how many english stars there are in the nrl.  its a record.  so it seems producing good players in numbers isnt that much of a problem in england

I think we will just differ on our opinions at this point aj.

And my question re the Amatuer game?

[aj1908]

7 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I think we will just differ on our opinions at this point aj.

And my question re the Amatuer game?

im investing in a tardis to go into the future and take all those canadian super league players of the future to bring to the wolfpack today.  you know because even though they are in super league, they cant fill their team with any decent players.

[Harry Stottle]

35 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

im investing in a tardis to go into the future and take all those canadian super league players of the future to bring to the wolfpack today.  you know because even though they are in super league, they cant fill their team with any decent players.

Being a Leigh fan, presumably a Leigh lad and a Rugby League man surely you know at least one of the many domiciled in our town who have had a connection with Toronto Wolfpack, if so did you ever talk to them about the many auditions TWP had with those "ready made for Rugby League athletes" that Mr Perez said would be queuing up to take their place in the team, I did need I say anymore than "where are they".

Just supposing these athletes do turn up, how are they going to learn the game, TWP could ill afford to throw a rookie into a SL game, send them on a DR perhaps I should imagine because of subsistence etc they would have to count on a salary cap, because of the nature of TWP or any other NA team for that matter they will always be at the limit of their cap spend, I will concede that they should at least if they put their minds to it a really make a go of unearthing some talent they will do so but never in tbe numbers peope are saying by this way.

The way TWP can nurture player's through to pro level is by the 'organic' method exactly the same way any club does here, that they take the player on after he has gone through the system from junior, youth, elite programme's etc, etc, and being organic that will take a long long time to come to frution, at least the 2 to 3 generation's I suggested, for a moment just contemplate that for every 100 kids who first lace a boot in our amatuer set up if one or two at the outside make it to SL that is a very good converstion rate, but firstly a lot of kids will be required playing the game in Canada to form competitive leagues and a pathway for the elite youngsters to perculate through.Your tardis aj how long would you be going forward in time to bring your SL Canadian player's back? you suggested 20 years previously, not a cat in hell's chance you will need a magic wand to even contemplate a player conveyor belt could be done in that time scale. 

Don't get me wrong I want this wonderful game of ours to grow and prosper anywhere it can reach, but I also take a realistic view on matters of how things can be accomplished, everything in life has pro's and con's attached to it, and at the moment I consider our game is to weak in the UK in playing numbers to supply more teams who cannot provide for themselves at the present.

As long as these teams are plying their trade in the British League their playing roster will be made up of a majority of British lads, it is by far the most cost effective way to do it, the player's live at home in their own beds for 9 months of the year that is for half of their games and training etc hence being stationed in Manchester, bringing Aussies over to populate the teams in big numbers especially if the have a wife and kids in tow will cost hell if a lot more.

 

 

[aj1908]

9 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Being a Leigh fan, presumably a Leigh lad and a Rugby League man surely you know at least one of the many domiciled in our town who have had a connection with Toronto Wolfpack, if so did you ever talk to them about the many auditions TWP had with those "ready made for Rugby League athletes" that Mr Perez said would be queuing up to take their place in the team, I did need I say anymore than "where are they".

Just supposing these athletes do turn up, how are they going to learn the game, TWP could ill afford to throw a rookie into a SL game, send them on a DR perhaps I should imagine because of subsistence etc they would have to count on a salary cap, because of the nature of TWP or any other NA team for that matter they will always be at the limit of their cap spend, I will concede that they should at least if they put their minds to it a really make a go of unearthing some talent they will do so but never in tbe numbers peope are saying by this way.

The way TWP can nurture player's through to pro level is by the 'organic' method exactly the same way any club does here, that they take the player on after he has gone through the system from junior, youth, elite programme's etc, etc, and being organic that will take a long long time to come to frution, at least the 2 to 3 generation's I suggested, for a moment just contemplate that for every 100 kids who first lace a boot in our amatuer set up if one or two at the outside make it to SL that is a very good converstion rate, but firstly a lot of kids will be required playing the game in Canada to form competitive leagues and a pathway for the elite youngsters to perculate through.Your tardis aj how long would you be going forward in time to bring your SL Canadian player's back? you suggested 20 years previously, not a cat in hell's chance you will need a magic wand to even contemplate a player conveyor belt could be done in that time scale. 

Don't get me wrong I want this wonderful game of ours to grow and prosper anywhere it can reach, but I also take a realistic view on matters of how things can be accomplished, everything in life has pro's and con's attached to it, and at the moment I consider our game is to weak in the UK in playing numbers to supply more teams who cannot provide for themselves at the present.

As long as these teams are plying their trade in the British League their playing roster will be made up of a majority of British lads, it is by far the most cost effective way to do it, the player's live at home in their own beds for 9 months of the year that is for half of their games and training etc hence being stationed in Manchester, bringing Aussies over to populate the teams in big numbers especially if the have a wife and kids in tow will cost hell if a lot more.

 

 

toronto must be listening to you.  they re-signed quinn nwgati.  which country is that lad from ?

torontos job is to be as strong as possible on the field, not get canadian ring ins to pretend to be something they arent.

with all the other obstacles placed in their path, surely signing the best players they can is the smart thing to do for a newly established club in a country where the sport is trying to grow ?

as i said before, the melbourne storm have established a presence in melbourne.  they have produced 2 nrl players i think in 20 years.  the people of melbourne dont care.  their success has brought in the crowds and established the club.  same as what toronto are trying to do

[dealwithit]

Couple points:

1) Don’t increase the salary cap until a majority of clubs are sustainable 

2) If there’s 2 Canadian born and developed players in the Wolfpack team within 20 years that’s a huge success. The fact there is already youth and adult community teams bodes well. 

3) Back on track, the silence from NY and Ottawa must mean news is likely very soon. 

[Kayakman]

3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

That would be great if that happened Tiwit, we are seemingly at opposite ends of the spectrum, will you be hitching a lift in my TARDIS that AJ says i posses or have you got your own?

Seriously, I would love you to be correct but as I said to K'man I am here witnessing what is happening and the picture I see is as dark as the one I am painting, as I have said on more than one occasion we really need to see and learn from Toronto before opening the doors to other teams in virgin territories, anyone who thinks everything is going to be rosy are deluding themselves there will be pluses and there will be mistakes, 3 years of a yet to be signed off prototype is not enough time to evaluate the process and go into full production, and all the while the supply chain is faltering, that needs to be addressed at source not just hoping that a couple of new outlets will appease the situation.

I stand by what I have said and you have never been able to disprove it Harry...  I've always supported a combined approach of protecting and supporting the heartlands while also promoting and supporting expansion...they are not mutually exclusive.  This can be easily done but requires a bit of lateral thinking unlike the linear thinking of an engineer or accountant.

You must at least admit to comprehending this fact Harry?

[Bob8]

14 hours ago, SL17 said:

The youth department was left in the name of fame. The fame was always going to end some day. 

Community clubs are working harder to keep the sport alive whilst still taking a back seat to the non existent pathway.

The product SL was the saviour of the game, but also the downfall of the game.

Another closed shop will end the game as we know it.

Expansion clubs would again be for nothing. As without youth you have no game.

Writing as a man who has spent most of his adult life involved with volunteering in the amateur game, I am not sure what the right balance is between pro and amateur.

Globally, I can see the room for development and growth in poorer areas. I am not sure that exists in affluent areas, where top level sport might be required.

If the game is to grow in the USA, Canada, France or anywhere else, I think we need entry to the top flight. How to balance that with P&R is tricky.

Sorry! Just waffle!

[TIWIT]

5 hours ago, dealwithit said:

Couple points:

1) Don’t increase the salary cap until a majority of clubs are sustainable 

2) If there’s 2 Canadian born and developed players in the Wolfpack team within 20 years that’s a huge success. The fact there is already youth and adult community teams bodes well. 

3) Back on track, the silence from NY and Ottawa must mean news is likely very soon. 

It just gets lost in all the loud Toronto discussions.

[GUBRATS]

9 hours ago, aj1908 said:

toronto must be listening to you.  they re-signed quinn nwgati.  which country is that lad from ?

torontos job is to be as strong as possible on the field, not get canadian ring ins to pretend to be something they arent.

with all the other obstacles placed in their path, surely signing the best players they can is the smart thing to do for a newly established club in a country where the sport is trying to grow ?

as i said before, the melbourne storm have established a presence in melbourne.  they have produced 2 nrl players i think in 20 years.  the people of melbourne dont care.  their success has brought in the crowds and established the club.  same as what toronto are trying to do

Is that the Melbourne in Australia , where they play RL ?

 

[Manxmanc]

9 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Is that the Melbourne in Australia , where they play RL ?

 

A timely intervention, acknowledging the Melbournes in Ontario and Quebec.

[Kayakman]

52 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Is that the Melbourne in Australia , where they play RL ?

 

Nope....Melbourne, Ontario:

Melbourne is a small community located within Middlesex County, Ontario, Canada. It lies on the boundary between two municipalities, Strathroy-Caradoc and Southwest Middlesex. About half the population of Melbourne lives in each municipality.

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Nope....Melbourne, Ontario:

Melbourne is a small community located within Middlesex County, Ontario, Canada. It lies on the boundary between two municipalities, Strathroy-Caradoc and Southwest Middlesex. About half the population of Melbourne lives in each municipality.

And ?

[Kayakman]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

And ?

What do you mean 'And?'?????

[GUBRATS]

Just now, Kayakman said:

What do you mean 'And?'?????

What actual contribution to the discussion does pointing out there is a Mebourne in Canada achieve ?

[Manxmanc]

2 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

What do you mean 'And?'?????

What do you mean 'And?'?????'????

[Kayakman]

9 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

What actual contribution to the discussion does pointing out there is a Mebourne in Canada achieve ?

I will answer your question but :

“First, You Have to Do These Things I Say”

[TheReaper]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

What actual contribution to the discussion does pointing out there is a Mebourne in Canada achieve ?

What has the last 5 pages had to do with the thread title ?