Can Sheffield Eagles kick on from Wembley?

[Clogiron]

11 hours ago, Eddie said:

Are you actually a fun of RL or do you just revel in its demise?

Yes, I do like the 'fun' in RL but if you meant fan I'm a long, long time watcher who's seen enough of it to know what it's limitations are and putting down a worthwhile footprint in a soccer mad city like Sheffield or Liverpool is one of them.

[Clogiron]

11 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

For what it's worth I attended countless games at Sheffield's Don Valley in the 90s, and there was consistently more than 2000 locals there every time.

So what's happened to them? Why do 75% of them no longer attend games, why haven't they built on that? I know they threw the towel in before with the Shuddersfield takeover and it's a different club etc, etc but those 2000+ locals as you state didn't all disappear overnight with Heatherington did they??

[Tommygilf]

22 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

So what's happened to them? Why do 75% of them no longer attend games, why haven't they built on that? I know they threw the towel in before with the Shuddersfield takeover and it's a different club etc, etc but those 2000+ locals as you state didn't all disappear overnight with Heatherington did they??

They were probably affected by the moves to Wakefield and Donny on top of the Shuddersfield farce.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

16 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

So what's happened to them? Why do 75% of them no longer attend games, why haven't they built on that? I know they threw the towel in before with the Shuddersfield takeover and it's a different club etc, etc but those 2000+ locals as you state didn't all disappear overnight with Heatherington did they??

I don't know as I'm not an Eagles fan, but my guess would be firstly that their recent nomadic existence after the demolition of Don Valley, coupled with their limited current ground have contributed to them losing alot of local support. Also, the reality is that alot of people aren't interested in watching 2nd tier sport, and only show interest when it's top level, and obviously Sheffield have been out of the top flight for 20 years.

[Griff]

Now is probably not the best time to be attracting brand new supporters to the OLP.  They'll take one look and probably never come again.

What's needed is for the winning bidder to fulfil what he claimed he was going to do in his bid.   If he can't - or won't - do that, he needs to say so and then Sheffield City Council can move forward.  Let's not forget that he wasn't the only bidder for this project.

[Clogiron]

44 minutes ago, Griff said:

Now is probably not the best time to be attracting brand new supporters to the OLP.  They'll take one look and probably never come again.

What's needed is for the winning bidder to fulfil what he claimed he was going to do in his bid.   If he can't - or won't - do that, he needs to say so and then Sheffield City Council can move forward.  Let's not forget that he wasn't the only bidder for this project.

I would agree with the first part of your post entirely, on the second this could drag out for a long time through court's and the council whilst the Eagles will be deprived of income so not too promising really.

[Blind side johnny]

No doubt the RFL will nod through any application to play at OLP for another year.

[Griff]

3 hours ago, Clogiron said:

I would agree with the first part of your post entirely, on the second this could drag out for a long time through court's and the council whilst the Eagles will be deprived of income so not too promising really.

What could ?   The bid was by the Scarborough Group.  Nothing to do with Sheffield United or Sheffield United Ladies.

The Scarborough Group have a deal.  They should honour it.

Or at the very least, back out of it.

Agree with you it's not too promising, though.  Mainly because no one has the guts to put their foot down with a firm hand.

[DoubleD]

20 hours ago, Clogiron said:

One can only dream

Sheffield have been in existence in one form or another for 35 years now, they won the Challenge Cup, and now they have won the 1895 so they have had more success than any club bar Workington who have entered the game since the last war but what have they got to show for it? No ground, less spectator's than when they started and a city whose population is entirely disinterested that's if they are even aware of them. There comes a time when you have to stop banging your head against a wall and admit you can't win.

For what it's worth I attended both of Sheffields highest home attendences:  Australia in 92? and the Bulls in 97 and it wasn't in anyway due to locals that they got those gates, if there was 2000 locals combined at both those games you would be very lucky

So let’s just give up, great strategy and attitude 

[Angelic Cynic]

1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said:

No doubt the RFL will nod through any application to play at OLP for another year.

  I don't know if the RFL 'nod through' anything - but they were involved with the talks prior to The Scarborough Group entering the tendering process at a very late hour.

 The RFL may have granted permission with the belief that the given date for completion was acceptable.

  The RFL did appear to have their finger on the pulse - https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/whaling-slams-lying-sheffield-city-council/

   You'll be aware Caborn was once a director at Sheffield United - and there is a link with McCabe,former owner of Sheffield United and head of The Scarborough Group - https://www.theguardian.com/football/2008/mar/05/newsstory.sheffieldunited

[Damien]

2 hours ago, DoubleD said:

So let’s just give up, great strategy and attitude 

Its amazing how many RL fans on here have that attitude when it comes to non heartland clubs and areas.

[Blind side johnny]

13 hours ago, Damien said:

Its amazing how many RL fans on here have that attitude when it comes to non heartland clubs and areas.

How long does a club have to be in existence until it is allowed to be regarded as "heartland"?

[Damien]

Just now, Blind side johnny said:

How long does a club have to be in existence until it is allowed to be regarded as "heartland"?

For some posters on here the answer seems to be never.

[Clogiron]

You know what they say about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome?  RL is a prime example of that, start a club somewhere and expect it to succeed just because it's there, then carry on expecting it to suddenly take off despite all the indications to the contrary  whilst everybody seal claps along at these plucky expanionists.

A sharp dose of reality is what is really needed, a club playing in front of a couple of hundred spectator's often relaying on off season Union player's to make the numbers up, getting hammered every week is not a shining light to be held up as progress.

Sheffield's situation is different to that, they have spent 35 years trying to attract a public that is interested in Soccer only and failed miserably over and over again, but you haven't to question it, as it's how RL goes about expansion and the past 125 year's show how successful that's been

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

You know what they say about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome?  RL is a prime example of that, start a club somewhere and expect it to succeed just because it's there, then carry on expecting it to suddenly take off despite all the indications to the contrary  whilst everybody seal claps along at these plucky expanionists.

A sharp dose of reality is what is really needed, a club playing in front of a couple of hundred spectator's often relaying on off season Union player's to make the numbers up, getting hammered every week is not a shining light to be held up as progress.

Sheffield's situation is different to that, they have spent 35 years trying to attract a public that is interested in Soccer only and failed miserably over and over again, but you haven't to question it, as it's how RL goes about expansion and the past 125 year's show how successful that's been

In the 90s Sheffield's attendances were very similar to those of Castleford and Warrington. They were more than some Super League clubs are getting now. They have not failed time and again. Sheffield's problem has always been the ground which when it was the Don Valley was a poor RL ground and they have had problem after problem since.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

Eagles averaged well over 4k during their time in Super League. I'm pretty sure the fact that they currently attract less than 1k is due to being out of the top tier and their recent nomadic existence and current ground problems. If they were playing out of a decent ground with the same TV money that other Super League clubs get, I'm sure they would be a much more attractive proposition for spectators.

However, the average attendances across Super League as a whole have slid down the past few years. What is being done across the sport to raise the profile of the game, so that there are more high profile star players that excite the fans and that people want to pay to go and see? I've heard all quarters of the game talk about how important this is, but seen very little evidence of any effective strategies.

[bazzzz65]

On Saturday, September 21, 2019 at 11:08, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

 Also, the reality is that alot of people aren't interested in watching 2nd tier sport.

I was at Hillsborough yesterday supporting Fulham and there were 22000 there.So your comment is rubbish.

[fairfolly]

You do realise that Sheffield Eagles do not get 22000 in a league season don,t you for their home fixtures.

[Eddie]

28 minutes ago, bazzzz65 said:

I was at Hillsborough yesterday supporting Fulham and there were 22000 there.So your comment is rubbish.

Agreed, the Championship has the 4th or 5th highest average attendance in Europe. Even when we were in League One Norwich averaged 25,000, only 2,000 less than we get in the Prem. 

[bazzzz65]

Fulham's average will be about 15,000 this season if they manage to be near the playoff places. Down from 25,000 last season in the Premier League but the Riverside stand has been demolished and is being replaced.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

51 minutes ago, bazzzz65 said:

I was at Hillsborough yesterday supporting Fulham and there were 22000 there.So your comment is rubbish.

Soccer is the exception to the rule. The game of soccer/football is so massive worldwide that other sports just can't compare.

There was a cracking edition of the BBC RL podcast earlier in the year with Shane Richardson from Souths and a bloke from Harlequins RU who had previously been a CEO for an NRL club. They succinctly and eloquently explained far better than I ever could how RL shouldn't even try and compare itself to football, because football tends to work in spite of its organisation simply because the game is so massively popular. Plus the average attendance across the whole of the FL Championship last season was approx half that of the Premier League, therefore suggesting that significantly fewer people are interested in watching it.

So I stand by my comment and respectfully disagree. If you can provide any evidence of any other second tier sport in this country achieving big crowds then I could be persuaded to change my view.

 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

5 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Eagles averaged well over 4k during their time in Super League. I'm pretty sure the fact that they currently attract less than 1k is due to being out of the top tier and their recent nomadic existence and current ground problems. If they were playing out of a decent ground with the same TV money that other Super League clubs get, I'm sure they would be a much more attractive proposition for spectators.

However, the average attendances across Super League as a whole have slid down the past few years. What is being done across the sport to raise the profile of the game, so that there are more high profile star players that excite the fans and that people want to pay to go and see? I've heard all quarters of the game talk about how important this is, but seen very little evidence of any effective strategies.

96-99 average was 4240.

[RP London]

20 hours ago, Clogiron said:

You know what they say about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome?  RL is a prime example of that, start a club somewhere and expect it to succeed just because it's there, then carry on expecting it to suddenly take off despite all the indications to the contrary  whilst everybody seal claps along at these plucky expanionists.

A sharp dose of reality is what is really needed, a club playing in front of a couple of hundred spectator's often relaying on off season Union player's to make the numbers up, getting hammered every week is not a shining light to be held up as progress.

Sheffield's situation is different to that, they have spent 35 years trying to attract a public that is interested in Soccer only and failed miserably over and over again, but you haven't to question it, as it's how RL goes about expansion and the past 125 year's show how successful that's been

while i understand, and have some sympathy, with your issues on Eagles I would point out that the average isnt that far off many clubs that have been around a lot longer with better facilities and a ground of their own. When you look at what Eagles have been through I think they have done very well to survive.. 

Eagles can do a lot of things much better, i have tried to be constructive with ideas on this thread and would love to see them do just one or two. 

The issues you have with the ground i can promise you anyone who is associated with the Eagles is feeling the same, probably more. It is not ideal at all but there is little that the Eagles can do about it. Like most new clubs having your own ground that you have paid for brick by brick is nigh on impossible. You rely on others to build multipurpose grounds or municipal grounds.. that is just the way of it. Lets be fair on this, i would guess we all would agree that expansion clubs in their early years need dispensation on certain things and while Eagles may be beyond these "early years" due to the original club why should they be held to higher standards than other clubs... Bradford will be at Dewsbury next year, Wakefield and Cas cant get new stadiums built and how many team actually own their own stadium now? 

Sheffield has other sports in the city that do "ok" and if we got close to doing what the Steelers do I think most people would be happy, and it would be a building block. However, I think most people in the city who follow them would agree they have A LOT more work to do. I cannot see anyone saying it is hunky dory or everything is perfect but equally to give up and go home seems hugely defeatist when with a little bit of effort and a good dose of luck (which everybody everywhere needs) then there can be something quite nice built 

[Griff]

Well, looks like the Scarborough Group are making their move.

Contractors appointed and work starts in the dead of winter in December.

I'd like to see a few bricks in place but it's more than we've had over the last two years.

Watch this space.  Or, rather, the space surrounding the pitch at the OLP.

[Blind side johnny]

2 hours ago, Griff said:

Well, looks like the Scarborough Group are making their move.

Contractors appointed and work starts in the dead of winter in December.

I'd like to see a few bricks in place but it's more than we've had over the last two years.

Watch this space.  Or, rather, the space surrounding the pitch at the OLP.

Interesting. I always understood that most of the building trade shuts down for four weeks in January.