Why are Rugby League fans so miserable all the time...?

[John Drake]

The new issue of Rugby League World has a Talking Point this month asking why the game's fanbase is so negative and what, if anything, can be done to change that around. Outgoing RLW editor Matt Shaw conducted a fan survey on Twitter, and the number of moans and groans about the sport far outweighed anything good anyone had to say.

We'd love it (obviously) if everyone on the TRL Forum bought a copy of the mag, read the article, and then gave us their own feedback on it, thoughts on why there is so much negativity in the sport and if we just have to live with that, or if perceptions can be altered and how that might be achieved.

Reason 3: Is Rugby League the greatest game in the world or a sport in constant crisis, suffering a slow and painful death? Why are the game's supporters always so pessimistic and downbeat about something they love? We try to find out. @rlworld https://t.co/5HdkusLZdk pic.twitter.com/p1pu6s5Jbk

— Rugby League World (@rlworld) August 30, 2019

[Tre Cool]

My view is it all comes down to mistrust and complete lack of confidence in the RFL to govern the game effectively and make the game what most fans believe it should be.  There's so much historical resentment that has never been dealt with and it all bubbles up in negativity, anger and conspiracy theories.  Forced mergers, not promoting teams finishing top, endless changes in league structure, massively successful home international years followed by years of no games at all.  There's so many failings and then weak PR which means this anger is never dealt with.  

[Lowdesert]

Shouldn’t the title be ‘Rugby League fans on Twitter’, John? 

 

[Allora]

10 minutes ago, Tre Cool said:

My view is it all comes down to mistrust and complete lack of confidence in the RFL to govern the game effectively and make the game what most fans believe it should be.  There's so much historical resentment that has never been dealt with and it all bubbles up in negativity, anger and conspiracy theories.  Forced mergers, not promoting teams finishing top, endless changes in league structure, massively successful home international years followed by years of no games at all.  There's so many failings and then weak PR which means this anger is never dealt with.  

I agree.

That and to some extent Rose coloured glasses by the older generation.

[Bod]

Because we have a league structure that promotes negativity. It's hard to promote a sport where most of the teams are quite happy to sit in mid table every season.

[Cerulean]

I have watched, played, taught, coached, refereed and preached rugby league for much of the last 60 years, believing it to be a sport like no other, and one I was fortunate to be attached to (by family and geography). In the last 20 years, the parts of the game closest to me have been marginalised (and often derided and scorned) because of the rise of a breakaway group - Super League - which gradually forced the sport to depart from the skilful thrilling game of handling and running and evasion, into a contest of high speed battering and wrestling, where the team with the most kilograms is the most likely to succeed. And in doing so, shed much of the enthusiasm outside of Super League, and produced an increasingly unattractive activity to which it is increasingly difficult to tempt new fans and new young players.

My game has gone now, and isn’t coming back. It all seems like a good reason to be miserable.

My fading involvement is of no importance. But if there are large numbers of modern fans of the modern game who are miserable, it could be time to stop fussing over the structure of the leagues, and look at the way the game is played.

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, Cerulean said:

I have watched, played, taught, coached, refereed and preached rugby league for much of the last 60 years, believing it to be a sport like no other, and one I was fortunate to be attached to (by family and geography). In the last 20 years, the parts of the game closest to me have been marginalised (and often derided and scorned) because of the rise of a breakaway group - Super League - which gradually forced the sport to depart from the skilful thrilling game of handling and running and evasion, into a contest of high speed battering and wrestling, where the team with the most kilograms is the most likely to succeed. And in doing so, shed much of the enthusiasm outside of Super League, and produced an increasingly unattractive activity to which it is increasingly difficult to tempt new fans and new young players.

My game has gone now, and isn’t coming back. It all seems like a good reason to be miserable.

My fading involvement is of no importance. But if there are large numbers of modern fans of the modern game who are miserable, it could be time to stop fussing over the structure of the leagues, and look at the way the game is played.

Indeed , all the major sports , Association football,RU and RL were designed to be played on a similar sized pitch with the appropriate number of essentially Amateur/Part time players , we now see supreme athletes on the same size pitches altering completely the way the games are played 

 

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, John Drake said:

The new issue of Rugby League World has a Talking Point this month asking why the game's fanbase is so negative and what, if anything, can be done to change that around. Outgoing RLW editor Matt Shaw conducted a fan survey on Twitter, and the number of moans and groans about the sport far outweighed anything good anyone had to say.

We'd love it (obviously) if everyone on the TRL Forum bought a copy of the mag, read the article, and then gave us their own feedback on it, thoughts on why there is so much negativity in the sport and if we just have to live with that, or if perceptions can be altered and how that might be achieved.

Many will be very miserable come SL GF night when Wigan are crowned Champions again 

[John Drake]

44 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Shouldn’t the title be ‘Rugby League fans on Twitter’, John? 

 

Not judging by this thread so far, or this forum in general, tbh. It's a general malaise, and it's not new either. The moaning of RL fans predates Twitter. 

[Futtocks]

34 minutes ago, Allora said:

I agree.

That and to some extent Rose coloured glasses by the older generation.

One of the things you can 100% guarantee about any "Golden Age" is that, back then, there were old folks saying that things aren't as good as they used to be in some even earlier era. Rugby League's hardly alone in having fans like that.

[Futtocks]

2 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

One of the things you can 100% guarantee about any "Golden Age" is that, back then, there were old folks saying that things aren't as good as they used to be in some even earlier era. Rugby League's hardly alone in having fans like that.

This may be about cricket, but Stephen Fry's words have a resonance in this case: "A new kind of bitterness has entered some quarters of the game as ex-players become commentators, columnists and journalists and begin to turn on their erstwhile teammates, dispraising the current players, pouring scorn on their technique and deprecating their tactical nous. We have video of course and can see that these pundits know what they were talking about: historical archive reveals that Boycott, Botham, Gower, Atherton, Willis, and Hussein were never out playing a false shot, never shuffled across, never missed a captaincy trick, never dropped a catch, never posted a fielder in the wrong place and never bowled off line or off length in the entire course of their careers."

[DavidM]

4 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

This may be about cricket, but Stephen Fry's words have a resonance in this case: "A new kind of bitterness has entered some quarters of the game as ex-players become commentators, columnists and journalists and begin to turn on their erstwhile teammates, dispraising the current players, pouring scorn on their technique and deprecating their tactical nous. We have video of course and can see that these pundits know what they were talking about: historical archive reveals that Boycott, Botham, Gower, Atherton, Willis, and Hussein were never out playing a false shot, never shuffled across, never missed a captaincy trick, never dropped a catch, never posted a fielder in the wrong place and never bowled off line or off length in the entire course of their careers."

And they had commentators commentating on them . It’d be awfully dull if they never voiced opinions or criticism 

[Allora]

2 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

One of the things you can 100% guarantee about any "Golden Age" is that, back then, there were old folks saying that things aren't as good as they used to be in some even earlier era. Rugby League's hardly alone in having fans like that.

That will always be the case in most things in life.

Tre Cool is right that the game has been run really badly for a long time and there does not seem to be any light at the end of the tunnel.

I would not employ any of the people running our game in my business, the same goes for most of the staff in the Admin of the NRL and ARL.

What they are paying themselves based on their performance is almost criminal.

They seem to be like Judges that can hold the job as long as they like until they retire or choose to leave.

There appears to be little or no accountability or measure of their performance by anyone.

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

This may be about cricket, but Stephen Fry's words have a resonance in this case: "A new kind of bitterness has entered some quarters of the game as ex-players become commentators, columnists and journalists and begin to turn on their erstwhile teammates, dispraising the current players, pouring scorn on their technique and deprecating their tactical nous. We have video of course and can see that these pundits know what they were talking about: historical archive reveals that Boycott, Botham, Gower, Atherton, Willis, and Hussein were never out playing a false shot, never shuffled across, never missed a captaincy trick, never dropped a catch, never posted a fielder in the wrong place and never bowled off line or off length in the entire course of their careers."

Yes but this all started off in football , particularly with that Muppet Andy Gray , who after watching 20 repeats of any particular incident was happy to tell everybody what any particular player did wrong and should have done instead , so glad he got the ' Chop ' couldn't stand the smug barsteward 

The invention of digital TV cameras and touch screens has enabled all and sundry ex players to continue earning a fortune talking male genitals on TV 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Such a poorly timed article, really. The week before two finals and as we head into the business end of the season where 2nd-5th and 12th in Super League weren’t sorted, where we still have promotion to be decided from the Championship and League One, the teams to be in the NRL play-off’s to be decided and around the game’s birthday, it just wasn’t the right time, for me. 

It’s an interesting article, I imagine and it’s and inquest that’s been needed for a long time. 

[CanadianRugger]

I think it's actually fairly easy to explain.

Rugby League is a counter culture and it's fans are part of that counter culture.

- criticism/rejection of institutions (historically RFU now RFL)

- the idea that those same powerful institutions are holding the game/us back and that some aspirational/undefined change would make the game better

- A countercultural movement expresses the ethos and aspirations of a specific population during a well-defined era.

Negativity of RL fans is a carry over from other aspects of life like Brexit.  The population that supports Brexit is the same population that watches Rugby League.

In other words, negativity of the RL population in England is a reflection of who you are as a people.  It has little if anything to do with the sport itself.

[DavidM]

4 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

I think it's actually fairly easy to explain.

Rugby League is a counter culture and it's fans are part of that counter culture.

- criticism/rejection of institutions (historically RFU now RFL)

- the idea that those same powerful institutions are holding the game/us back and that some aspirational/undefined change would make the game better

- A countercultural movement expresses the ethos and aspirations of a specific population during a well-defined era.

Negativity of RL fans is a carry over from other aspects of life like Brexit.  The population that supports Brexit is the same population that watches Rugby League.

In other words, negativity of the RL population in England is a reflection of who you are as a people.  It has little if anything to do with the sport itself.

I understood Cantona better 

[CanadianRugger]

7 minutes ago, DavidM said:

I understood Cantona better 

Good for you.  If you don't think Rugby League is countercultural, then why?  Everything about it seems countercultural to me.  At least the way the sport is in England.

The question asked was why are Rugby League fans so negative?

Here is a more simple set of answers:

- It's cool/in vogue to be negative

- It's the trendy thing to do

You folks have made being miserable in to a past time and your disdain for my post proves my point.

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

Good for you.  If you don't think Rugby League is countercultural, then why?  Everything about it seems countercultural to me.  At least the way the sport is in England.

It's got a far higher status and profile in Australia.

Because it got there before football 

[Allora]

6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Because it got there before football 

I don't think that is accurate.

[Damien]

So now we have a thread moaning about moaning Rugby League fans

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Allora said:

I don't think that is accurate.

Look around the world , in essentially every country where Association Football got established first , it now dominates the sporting culture of that country 

Of the others where it didn't , in many cases it is the fastest growing sport in those countries , and will eventually catch up and take over whatever other sports currently dominate 

 

[Toby Chopra]

52 minutes ago, Cerulean said:

I have watched, played, taught, coached, refereed and preached rugby league for much of the last 60 years, believing it to be a sport like no other, and one I was fortunate to be attached to (by family and geography). In the last 20 years, the parts of the game closest to me have been marginalised (and often derided and scorned) because of the rise of a breakaway group - Super League - which gradually forced the sport to depart from the skilful thrilling game of handling and running and evasion, into a contest of high speed battering and wrestling, where the team with the most kilograms is the most likely to succeed. And in doing so, shed much of the enthusiasm outside of Super League, and produced an increasingly unattractive activity to which it is increasingly difficult to tempt new fans and new young players.

My game has gone now, and isn’t coming back. It all seems like a good reason to be miserable.

My fading involvement is of no importance. But if there are large numbers of modern fans of the modern game who are miserable, it could be time to stop fussing over the structure of the leagues, and look at the way the game is played.

This is an interesting point, and one worth engaging with. 

What I'd say, though, is that the shift to speed, strength and power is the inevitable outcome of full time professionalism, as these are the things that can be easily increased with full time training. 

And if the game hadn't fully professionalisef in the 90s, given all the subsequent changes in the the shape of the economy, employment and the wider sporting and media landscape, would it even have survived in any form till today? I have my doubts. 

The challenge for all sports, not just rugby league, is to have a grassroots that caters for all types of people and that is based around fun and sociability, while also having a pathway to elite professionalism. Football and Union struggle with this too. 

 

[GUBRATS]

Just as a follow on to my previous post , the domination of Association Football in the UK ( and to a lesser degree in other countries ) and the century based structures it adopted at its inception are what drives the mind set of UK based sports fans , we are ' conditioned ' to like Promotion and relegation up and down a ' ladder ' structure , that will never change , no matter how many times people be they outside the UK or inside it tell us of the merits of closed shop options working elsewhere 

That's the way it is 

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

Absolutely. It is so easy, after your team has lost or some other setback has happened, to start a thread* and begin furiously damning everyone and everything you can think of who might be to blame.

*often with a single, uncapitalised word as a title that lacks descriptive scope. "toronto", for instance.  

This is all fans of all sports , last Sunday I spent 2 hours in a Manchester pub outside the MRI on my own watching Man City play Bournemouth with the pub full of City fans , they were winning the game from virtually the start , but moaned every minute of the match , apparently they should have had 5 penalties and won the game 12 nil , even though Bournemouth scored a perfectly legal goal from a wonderful free kick 

It's just the way it is