Les Tonks Sidestep Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Just now, Oliver Clothesoff said: But it’s not their competition. Yes it is. SLE is basically a marketing arm not a governing body for the 'sport of SL'. All games in the UK are played under the auspices of the RFL. Who do you think supplies the match officials and time keepers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The British Lion Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Its just bordering on the ridiculous now. Warrington defended like heroes at Wembley. They won the game through sheer determination. Huge lack of class there from McManus, and the continuing whinge brigade of 'a portion' of Saints fans. There were a number of decisions that 'didn't' happen and weren't penalised in favour of Warrington, but I don't see any of the Saints staff bringing up them. Be graceful in defeat, chaps. You're embarrassing yourselves now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Dunbar said: The more I think about this article the more outrageous I think it is. The attitude and behaviour of any organisation is set by the people at the top and he is providing a terrible example to the people who work in his organisation. As somebody earlier has said, it is a distinct lack of class. Never mind to the supporters of his club and that's without taking into account the recent events in France. As NickW pointed out calling death threats a 'pathetic spat' tells you quite a lot about the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Ted Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Still come back to John Monie's old adage "Don't complain about the referee unless you've won". That's terrible from McManus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Far too much ref-baiting in this sport. A serious comp can’t have the head honcho of a leading club making claims about a referee being predisposed to the opposition. McManus should be reprimanded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeF Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: But it’s not their competition. who deals with SL players disciplinary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris22 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 I defended the club (or the right of any club) to seek clarity as to a referee's decision as we did. I also defended the right to formally complain about a referees's decisions as there was a misconception that we did. McManus usually conducts himself well and in turn represents the club well. On this occasion, he has badly let himself and the club down. I get that he like any fan was frustrated that we lost. I get the annoyance at some rough calls we got last weekend. But these comments should not have been publicised. At best, they should have been communicated to the RFL. Sadly, I'm a bit embarrassed to read them. The comments are in parts illogical. We cannot drop referees from the final because they receive threats and thus let a bully win. The hyperbolic, lazy comments about fans turning away from the sport are ones I would roll my eyes at from a fan in a stadium, let alone our chairman. I expect the idea is to apply pressure to match officials in advance ahead of the play offs, but it's not good reading in a communication from the club. The remarks stink of panic. A chairman who has invested heavily, a team that has dominated for 2 years and so far has won no major trophies and is concerned we don't know how to get over the line. The more I think about it, the more annoyed I am about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 All the focus recently has been about taking the focus off the refs, with the Enjoy the Campaign game. This came to a head after the death threat, and McManus undermines it all by calling it a spat and a PR stunt. He is a grade A tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Wire Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Utterly embarrassing for such a great club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Setter Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Oliver Clothesoff said: He’s bang on in regards to the standard of refereeing. He’s suggesting a little too much there, for me, though. He’s bordering on suggesting Hicks is bent. While I think he’s incredibly incompetent, I don’t think he’s bent or in favour of any particular team. He may well be bang on about the standards, but he follows that up with suggesting that Saints were affected by his decisions more than Warrington. That simply isn’t true as he missed stuff for both sides, and both had fair tries disallowed. 1 hour ago, NickWeaver said: The fact referees go, and are allowed to go, on Twitter with fans is utterly beyond me: no good can come from it and clearly no good does. “Resultantly, the perception of officiating impartiality was destroyed even before kick-off. This was amply consolidated, in the eye of many, in reality when Hicks comprehensibly did not go to the video referee for Morgan Knowles’ clear and legitimate opening try and then followed it up shortly with other highly questionable decisions. He’s almost egging the Saints fans on to agree with him, and we know what mob culture against perceived ref bias can result in - such as the very Twitter incident he’s referring to. In my mind that’s incitement and the RFL should issue a response. Totally unprofessional from a modern-day chairman. I’d like to think the referees are totally impartial, irrespective of whether the standards need looking at. However if he’s right about the ‘apparent’ bias maybe this little rant of his might just make the situation worse for his club now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie tries Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 This is so poor it’s untrue. lose with dignity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnleywelsh Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longboard Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Pie tries said: This is so poor it’s untrue. lose with dignity I agree. Win or lose, show dignity, respect for others, self-respect and pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelic Cynic Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 For a decade or more spectators have been driven from the game - yet he and his like want all the money for Super League clubs where,if he is to be believed,the officiating has driven the crowds away. At least his eyesight is good - he can see things clearly,from the seats,while the referee on the spot,obviously cannot. I wonder what the next,publicised,self-harm by someone in the sport will be.Intoxicated players is so-last-year. Probably find out by this time next week - it just continues unabated. Respect.Enjoy The Game. No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSaint Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 46 minutes ago, Chris22 said: I defended the club (or the right of any club) to seek clarity as to a referee's decision as we did. I also defended the right to formally complain about a referees's decisions as there was a misconception that we did. McManus usually conducts himself well and in turn represents the club well. On this occasion, he has badly let himself and the club down. I get that he like any fan was frustrated that we lost. I get the annoyance at some rough calls we got last weekend. But these comments should not have been publicised. At best, they should have been communicated to the RFL. Sadly, I'm a bit embarrassed to read them. The comments are in parts illogical. We cannot drop referees from the final because they receive threats and thus let a bully win. The hyperbolic, lazy comments about fans turning away from the sport are ones I would roll my eyes at from a fan in a stadium, let alone our chairman. I expect the idea is to apply pressure to match officials in advance ahead of the play offs, but it's not good reading in a communication from the club. The remarks stink of panic. A chairman who has invested heavily, a team that has dominated for 2 years and so far has won no major trophies and is concerned we don't know how to get over the line. The more I think about it, the more annoyed I am about this. Completely agree. He has every right to feel frustrated about the Knowles error; absolutely no right to call the referee bent. Disappointed would be an understatement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Wire Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: I dont agree with McManus and think he got this pretty wrong. But... we are particularly poor at painting the image if impartiality in the game. We have referees who referee the teams they support, we have referees on twitter as public figures, we have referees engaging with individual clubs. That's not great. We also have this very strange thing where a referees performance is often judged how they dont referee the game. Referees are praised for not making decisions, for not giving penalties and for not using the VR. There is a culture that we have created where Hicks is a positive talking point and gets positive attention for making the wrong decision. The error he made at the CC Final, which was an atrocious error, is the inevitable result of some mixed up ideas the game as a governing body and as a group have about officiating. McManus is right to highlight that. His style makes it sound bitter and reactionary rather than calm and measured which means these important issues are lost in nonsense. Just read that three times and I still don't have a clue what your point is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Leeds Wire said: Just read that three times and I still don't have a clue what your point is. Scotchy talks ballcocks shock...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 12 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: There is a culture that we have created where Hicks is a positive talking point and gets positive attention for making the wrong decision. The error he made at the CC Final, which was an atrocious error, is the inevitable result of some mixed up ideas the game as a governing body and as a group have about officiating. McManus is right to highlight that. What do you mean by that? Surely Hicks simply thought Knowles had bounced the ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: Hopefully a big fine coming his way - and if only the option of banning his team from next year's competition was available to the RFL disciplinary.............. Immediate (checks table.. ) 18 points ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 2 hours ago, DavidM said: I’m not blaming the ref right .... but I really am All of which misses the point that the ref had a clear view of the event and so called it a no try. There is no controversy about it. Even if the VR had been called in he saw nothing available to have been able to contradict it. Infantile speculation by St Helens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Man of Kent said: Far too much ref-baiting in this sport. .... And on this blog. Look all you numbnuts, without referees there will be no game. McManus is behaving like a spoilt father on the touchline screaming abuse at the ref because his poor little Johnny was penalised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Prince Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 34 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: You been drinking? The point was pretty obvious, McManus makes some good points, they get lost in He had no good points. The ref called it no try. You suggest that referees do not make decisions. In fact they have to. The have to say Have No Try or Have a Try. They do not say Not Certain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 16 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: What I mean is that hicks didnt refer that to the VR because he thought he would be praised for not doing so, and criticised for doing so. I'm sure hicks did think Knowles.bounced the ball. I'm also sure he didn't know for sure and knew he didnt know for sure (obviously not least because he was wrong) Hicks mistake wasnt that he got the decision wrong, everyone will do that from time to time. His mistake was not to go to the VR and the only reason he doesnt go is because of a culture that praises refs for not going to the VR and criticises them for doing so. Oh, I see. Culture. Don’t buy that myself. I think Hicks just saw a bounce and played on. Where McManus might have had a point is Hicks being a guest of Warrington during the week of the final could be seen as amateurish. However, the press stories about Hicks confronting the death threat tweeter were published 10 days before Wembley and it’s not actually clear to me when Hicks met him at the Halliwell Jones. The tweet in question was posted on 31 May and police took immediate action. McManus has reacted like an idiot. If someone on here had suggested Hicks was bent like McManus has the mods would probably have got involved. Which is possibly more action than the RFL will take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 7 hours ago, Man of Kent said: What do you mean by that? Surely Hicks simply thought Knowles had bounced the ball? Indeed. At the very worst, it was just a human error. There are certain characters who would agree with McManus, and it could have been easily predicted who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 Until now I had McManus down as one of the few adults in the room amongst the SL bosses. I know how losing cup final frustration can linger but this is just embarrasing. Even if you accept that Hicks made a mistake in that one incident, the argument seems to be that for the remainder of the match Saints were so overwhelmed by one thing early on that they were totally unable to get back in the game so they ended up losing decisively. Which is pretty damning of his players. Champion teams overcome adverstity, they don't shrink from it and I'm worried that this is a bit of an insight into the mentality of the Saints club at the moment. And worried that, again, I'm going to find myself at a Grand Final where it's them vs Wigan and I know I'm backing a team which just doesn't have what it takes. I'm reminded of what Keiron Cunningham had to say about infinitely more controversial incidents which played much more significant roles in much closer matches, like the 1999 Grand Final. Quote “That was a great win and it was the game when Leon [Pryce] had a try disallowed by the video ref,” remembers Cunningham. “But every time he brings it up, or the Chris Joynt voluntary tackle three years later, I just get my ring out of the box and tell him to have a look.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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