Dave T Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 15 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said: But since Saints 'allegedly' wrote to the RFL beforehand, McManus has completely blown a gasket. Do you know where this allegation has come from mate? Toppy hasn't answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 20 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said: Super League clubs should now fund the referees and the RFL can take care of those who wish to referee the 'plebs' in The Championship and League 1. AFAIK the main chunk of money coming into the game, i.e. the SL TV contract, does at least in part help fund the RFL and thus the referees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Setter Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, Dave T said: he was the ref for Wire v Hull in the semi final Somebody let Pearson know ASAP! 9 minutes ago, Dave T said: he was ref for the Challenge Cup final in 2018. So he was making up for the Lineham ‘no-try’ early in the game last year then, which would have changed the game in Warrington’s favour. Now the truth comes out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Setter Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Super League clubs should now fund the referees Warrington already fund one, by all accounts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Badrinath Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Saints are gonna be spewing, as warrington are secretly using robert hicks as part of pur latest social media bomb, advertising the play offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Setter Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Surprised no one noticed this is the run up to the final?... Meghan in primrose, and Harry in blue. Coincidence? I think not: Oh, and I even saw Harry meet Hicks right before kick-off. They shook hands, so who knows what Harry was slipping to Hicks concealed by his palm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 26 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: Follow the logic through. What I originally said was that Hicks decision was the inevitable result of a culture within the game that encourages refs not to use the VR. It praises them when they make a decision without it and criticises them when they over-rely on it. This is self evident not just because of the numerous examples of that happening but because we dont go to the VR for everything. The simple fact of the matter is, if there was no encouragement to avoid using the VR then the VR would be used for everything. That is obvious I know I have said it before on this thread but this is bonkers and the logic you describe is completely illogical. The referees go to the video referee when they feel they need to have their decision validated/checked. They don't go to the video referee when they are sure of their decision. It really is a simple as that and there is no 'culture' involved. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Setter Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Dunbar said: The referees go to the video referee when they feel they need to have their decision validated/checked. From RedVee: Quote I was in a pub one night and Ganson came in straight from reffing at Wigan. He was asked by one bloke why he went to the screen so often when events were so obvious. At the time the sponsor on screen was an energy company and Ganson replied that every time he goes to the screen he gets £150 credit against his energy bills. He then went on to boast about having "a drawer full of watches" from Tissot's spell as sponsor. Yes. I know shouldn't go to those sort of places. It's fun to see what McManus has created though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 19 minutes ago, Cheshire Setter said: From RedVee: Yes. I know shouldn't go to those sort of places. It's fun to see what McManus has created though! You're not helping! "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 I think this McManus guy is a big spoiled suck crying like a little baby for a teat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: Being sure of their decision doesnt preclude them from going to the VR. They could go to the VR for every decision. They dont for the reasons we hear multiple times elsewhere and have heard on this thread. They dont not refer decisions they are sure about for any other reason than people ##### and whine and complain about the overuse of the VR They don't refer the decisions they are sure about because (and here is the key bit) they are sure about them. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Setter Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 How about we come to a compromise and let McManus have his photo taken next to the trophy. We could put some red and white ribbons on it too. Everyone's a winner that way. It's the taking part that counts. Anyway I can see my contributions are getting silly though boredom, so I should refrain from participating in this thread and leave it to the professionals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Cheshire Setter said: How about we come to a compromise and let McManus have his photo taken next to the trophy. We could put some red and white ribbons on it too. Everyone's a winner that way. It's the taking part that counts. Anyway I can see my contributions are getting silly though boredom, so I should refrain from participating in this thread and leave it to the professionals... i'm starting to get to the point where i would find it funny if they lost the grand final to a contentious decision and the ref winked at the camera just before he gave it.. and before hand i have been very much in the camp of "i hope they win it as they have been the dominant force" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 I have to say I've gone from hoping Saints win as a fair reflection of how they have dominated the last couple of seasons to starting to hope they get what's coming to them. My feelings are irrelevant but as a club they have generally, at least since the Millward days, been held in pretty high regard in the game and it's a shame they are going through the gutter now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southstander13 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 4 hours ago, RP London said: i'm starting to get to the point where i would find it funny if they lost the grand final to a contentious decision and the ref winked at the camera just before he gave it.. and before hand i have been very much in the camp of "i hope they win it as they have been the dominant force" 3 hours ago, M j M said: I have to say I've gone from hoping Saints win as a fair reflection of how they have dominated the last couple of seasons to starting to hope they get what's coming to them. My feelings are irrelevant but as a club they have generally, at least since the Millward days, been held in pretty high regard in the game and it's a shame they are going through the gutter now. Agreed. Given the year they've had then I had hoped they'd win the GF because they have clearly been the best team over the year, without doubt. All that McManus has done, for me anyway, is remove any goodwill I had for them and I now hope they don't do it. If he wanted to kick off about the reffing then do it via the appropriate channels, but once again the sport is airing its dirty laundry in public, all he has done is made himself look like a sore loser! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 3 hours ago, M j M said: I have to say I've gone from hoping Saints win as a fair reflection of how they have dominated the last couple of seasons to starting to hope they get what's coming to them. My feelings are irrelevant but as a club they have generally, at least since the Millward days, been held in pretty high regard in the game and it's a shame they are going through the gutter now. Agree. They’ve played superbly. Holbrook supported EMs comments, the local press are supporting his comments. I cannot understand the suggestion from Toppy that Saints wrote to the RFL pre CCF and yet do not mention it anywhere. Its an aggressive mentality on show where nothing else matters but Saints. IMO, collectively, they are doing themselves more harm. The Club really should be playing this down now. I can see the next game being a tense affair and the pressure on the Ref from Saints players ramping up to early Holbrook standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelic Cynic Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Lowdesert said: Agree. They’ve played superbly. Holbrook supported EMs comments, the local press are supporting his comments. I cannot understand the suggestion from Toppy that Saints wrote to the RFL pre CCF and yet do not mention it anywhere. Its an aggressive mentality on show where nothing else matters but Saints. IMO, collectively, they are doing themselves more harm. The Club really should be playing this down now. I can see the next game being a tense affair and the pressure on the Ref from Saints players ramping up to early Holbrook standards. Mike Rush,the CEO,former teacher and involved with the academy prior to becoming the CEO has not,thankfully. I would think there will be a distinct lack of interest in the remainder of St Helens games.Whatever happens the referee will be the centre of attention - put in the invidious position! I typed into another forum how I cannot find another sport where this situation has arisen;why would it? However I cannot see any blue chip sponsors becoming involved for may,many years to come,if ever. The complete lack of self awareness is astonishing.Twice! The Premier League lot in football delayed VAR as it didn't cover the whole game - including the Sunday pub leagues. The cost of 2 referees on the field and VR at each and every game is going to be expensive. The sooner the elite and their perfect referees,and VR systems and video referees,breakaway the sooner the rest of the sport can attempt to leave this dystopia behind. To beat some of the latest scandals takes some doing - but it has been achieved.Twice. No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Setter Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 30 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said: Whatever happens the referee will be the centre of attention - put in the invidious position! On the contrary, I think the referee may well feel more relaxed with Saints games. He’ll have the backing of the RFL, the media and all fans of other clubs Of course he’ll still worry about paparazzi from the St Helens Star catching him shopping in Warrington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 1 minute ago, scotchy1 said: And what benefit do we derive from them not going to the VR for those decisions? That question has absolutely nothing to do with it. The topic is why do on pitch referees not use the video referee for some decisions and the answer is that they don't need them because they are sure of their decision and they do not require validation or checking. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 6 minutes ago, scotchy1 said: A referee can refer a decision that they are sure about. Yes, they can. But they don't. You know why? Because they are sure. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Setter Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Dunbar said: Yes, they can. But they don't. You know why? Because they are sure. The soundtrack to this thread could be ‘Windmills of my mind’... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Cheshire Setter said: The soundtrack to this thread could be ‘Windmills of my mind’... I accept I may be ####### a load of people off but I feel I need to press home the point until it sinks in. It's a straight forward enough point so it shouldn't take more than six months or so. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Just now, Dunbar said: I accept I may be ####### a load of people off but I feel I need to press home the point until it sinks in. It's a straight forward enough point so it shouldn't take more than six months or so. You will never have the last word.... Ever. Even if that means he just repeats himself again and again and again... Some useful links for your perusal: https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-deal-with-a-person-who-always-tries-to-disagree-with-you-at-all-costs https://www.quora.com/Why-are-some-people-habitually-contrarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire Setter Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I accept I may be ####### a load of people off but I feel I need to press home the point until it sinks in. It's a straight forward enough point so it shouldn't take more than six months or so. In all honesty it’s about time someone locked the thread and started a ‘McManus aftermath’ sequel thread, and all posters get a clean slate. Eapecially since the thread is essentially about Mcanus’ behaviuir not the actual video ref policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Damien said: You will never have the last word.... Ever. Even if that means he just repeats himself again and again and again Ah, but I have a plan. We have a new apprentice at work and so I shall instruct him to copy and paste my last answer over and over again! If Scotchy employs his own apprentice to retaliate at least we are adding to the UK workforce and economy. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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