Swinton Lions rebrand,and what are other clubs outside Super League doing in anticipation of 2021?

[Lounge Room Lizard]

I feel the next 5 years sadly could see some clubs struggle to exist. How long can clubs go on surviving on less money and gates under a thousand? Some Clubs like Halifax are lucky to have players visit local Clubs and Schools. Others have looked towards ties with SL Cubs like Fev. It will take time for any Club to see much improvement in Crowds. Clubs are trying various schemes like free entry or donations for certain games etc, but crowds are still not that good. I think the Championship and League 1 needs it own Manager/CEO that can help or advise Clubs on various things. Most Clubs only exist due to volunteers doing things from washing kits to answering phones or running a Club Shop. I feel the RFL needs to provide practicle help for clubs and not just leave Clubs to do things on there own. Maybe the lower Leagues need to work more together on things like Tickets for games, Working together on promotion of the League and certain Games etc.

[GUBRATS]

6 minutes ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

I feel the next 5 years sadly could see some clubs struggle to exist. How long can clubs go on surviving on less money and gates under a thousand? Some Clubs like Halifax are lucky to have players visit local Clubs and Schools. Others have looked towards ties with SL Cubs like Fev. It will take time for any Club to see much improvement in Crowds. Clubs are trying various schemes like free entry or donations for certain games etc, but crowds are still not that good. I think the Championship and League 1 needs it own Manager/CEO that can help or advise Clubs on various things. Most Clubs only exist due to volunteers doing things from washing kits to answering phones or running a Club Shop. I feel the RFL needs to provide practicle help for clubs and not just leave Clubs to do things on there own. Maybe the lower Leagues need to work more together on things like Tickets for games, Working together on promotion of the League and certain Games etc.

Posted years ago on RL fans that each lower league club should have had appointed to them a ' marketing ' person , grouped in say 4 all under the control of a manager , essentially this ' team ' would then work collectively for one team for one week per month , all the teams under the control of a CEO 

Various initiatives could then be tried and shared , clubs could work together on joint projects at their matches , ultimately Fax are only in competition with Fev 2 or 3 times a year , they are however both in competition with Leeds,Giants,Cas,Wakey and the Bulls ( when in SL ) all year , every year 

When licencing was introduced I contacted several lower tier clubs with an idea to work together for the common good with regards their merchandise procurement ( that aspect was just the initial idea , with much more to follow on ) , the responses I received were very very poor , they really didn't/don't understand just who they are competing with outside the white lines on a RL pitch 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

When licencing was introduced I contacted several lower tier clubs with an idea to work together for the common good with regards their merchandise procurement ( that aspect was just the initial idea , with much more to follow on ) , the responses I received were very very poor , they really didn't/don't understand just who they are competing with outside the white lines on a RL pitch 

Unfortunately that's the reason why some clubs are where they are. 

Do some small town/village clubs go on to be a success? Yes, of course. But they have been run by very effective people for a long time, back when it wasn't an issue to be a small town or big city, and established a good brand and customer base because of it.

It's hard to attract these people these days to small town clubs with small fanbases in an age of huge city sports franchises with giant turnovers. You need to do more or something different. 

[yipyee]

9 hours ago, Eddie said:

Everton have c.50% of the fan base in Liverpool without being called Liverpool, and same with Aston Villa - Swinton can still get fans from elsewhere while being called Swinton. 

Do Everton have 50% of the fan base??

[yipyee]

This is the second and third tier in a pyramid that is slowly becoming a column.

This tier should be twice the size of SL with greater geographical spread.

If the pyramid crumbles the tip will fall off and we will be left with nothing

[Yakstorm]

Considering Ottawa is almost guaranteed to be in by 2021, and NYC is still floating about, the number of clubs which would be forced out if only a 10 Team Super League and 16 Team Championship was to exist would be closer to 13, which surely as a sport we wouldn't let happen.

It would almost be commercial suicide to attempt to host World Cup matches in the same year we have potentially kicked out Doncaster, Newcastle and Coventry out of Professional Rugby League, and who would Wales draw half their squad from if there is suddenly no West Wales or North Wales? 

You could also end up with no representation in Cumbria depending on where teams finish... and whilst we are pretty destructive as a sport, surely we aren't that stupid... 

[Eddie]

7 hours ago, yipyee said:

Do Everton have 50% of the fan base??

In the city yes, and in some areas (other than Everton) more than 50%. 

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

16 hours ago, Tim Streets tache said:

As a Swinton fan, i have followed all this closely. The board had a secret meeting with "select fans" - mainly Mazeys brownnosing mates. Suddenly this gets leaked in The Sun.

Being a member of numerous fan sites and seeing the chairmans reaction on twiiter and answers to any sort of compromise (Mancherster SL) being one, i think its pretty much a given that the club willl be Manchester Lions next season.

This may not mean much to fans of other clubs, but i think you can understand the frustration of current fans who after nearly 3 decades of not playing in the town, the name Swinton - being the only identity left to the club/town. Their/Our club/town. 

Did seem a bit convenient that it landed in the Sun at the same time as the Bury and Bolton news.

 

[paulwalker71]

Might as well throw Dewsbury and Bradford into the potential merger mix

After all, this thread has reached 3 pages without us getting a mention  

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Should merge the lower league sides, less sides = more money for each. 

South Yorkshire Eagles - Sheffield and Doncaster. 

Heavy Woollen XIII - Batley and Dewsbury. 

Manchester - Oldham, Rochdale and Swinton. 

West Yorkshire - Halifax, Bradford and Keighley. 

Cumbria - Workington, Haven and Barrow. 

Thirteen clubs into five. Makes sense. 

[Tommygilf]

7 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Should merge the lower league sides, less sides = more money for each. 

South Yorkshire Eagles - Sheffield and Doncaster. 

Heavy Woollen XIII - Batley and Dewsbury. 

Manchester - Oldham, Rochdale and Swinton. 

West Yorkshire - Halifax, Bradford and Keighley. 

Cumbria - Workington, Haven and Barrow. 

Thirteen clubs into five. Makes sense. 

I can literally feel the phoenix clubs emerging...

[Eddie]

8 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Should merge the lower league sides, less sides = more money for each. 

South Yorkshire Eagles - Sheffield and Doncaster. 

Heavy Woollen XIII - Batley and Dewsbury. 

Manchester - Oldham, Rochdale and Swinton. 

West Yorkshire - Halifax, Bradford and Keighley. 

Cumbria - Workington, Haven and Barrow. 

Thirteen clubs into five. Makes sense. 

Yeah all of Barrow’s fans are going to go to Workington for home games, or vice versa. Unless you were being sarcastic in which case

[Oliver Clothesoff]

That didn’t take long 

[hrtbps]

1 hour ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Should merge the lower league sides, less sides = more money for each. 

South Yorkshire Eagles - Sheffield and Doncaster. 

Heavy Woollen XIII - Batley and Dewsbury. 

Manchester - Oldham, Rochdale and Swinton. 

West Yorkshire - Halifax, Bradford and Keighley. 

Cumbria - Workington, Haven and Barrow. 

Thirteen clubs into five. Makes sense. 

I'd go further. I'd merge South Yorkshire Eagles, Heavy Woollen XIII and West Yorkshire into The Yorkshire Heavy Eagles, and I'd merge Manchester and Cumbria into The Mancumbria All Stars. Two clubs playing each other every week. Boom.

[Blind side johnny]

4 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Should merge the lower league sides, less sides = more money for each. 

South Yorkshire Eagles - Sheffield and Doncaster. 

Heavy Woollen XIII - Batley and Dewsbury. 

Manchester - Oldham, Rochdale and Swinton. 

West Yorkshire - Halifax, Bradford and Keighley. 

Cumbria - Workington, Haven and Barrow. 

Thirteen clubs into five. Makes sense. 

Please remind me, what is three times nothing?

[Oliver Clothesoff]

8 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Please remind me, what is three times nothing?

Another one. Too easy. 

[moorside roughyed]

18 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I totally see what you're saying regarding the popularity of RL. That is however why I think if Swinton are to change names to Manchester there has to be total change in mindset and approach to how to sell the game and matchday experience.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens. I do however think that rugby league isn't as relevant as it once was. I work at a large company in Oldham and most people know we have a football team in the town but hardly any know that we still have a rugby league side. I wonder if this is the case in Rochdale and Swinton. As I've said on here before, it'll be interesting to see what the next 5 or so years will bring. The RFL need to go on a massive promotion drive for the game in general. 

[Kayakman]

5 minutes ago, moorside roughyed said:

We'll just have to wait and see what happens. I do however think that rugby league isn't as relevant as it once was. I work at a large company in Oldham and most people know we have a football team in the town but hardly any know that we still have a rugby league side. I wonder if this is the case in Rochdale and Swinton. As I've said on here before, it'll be interesting to see what the next 5 or so years will bring. The RFL need to go on a massive promotion drive for the game in general. 

The key jewel of the promotion should be the NA expansion...it would show to everyone that RL is growing and dynamic.

The Ottawa franchise should be granted immediately.

[Eddie]

8 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

The key jewel of the promotion should be the NA expansion...it would show to everyone that RL is growing and dynamic.

The Ottawa franchise should be granted immediately.

Indeed, if New York play Oldham people in the town will soon know about it. I expect they’ll create far more interest than Toronto have so far, and Toronto have created a lot. 

[iffleyox]

10 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Where rugby is disproportionately strongest there isnt one pyramid but lots of individual pyramids

Take southern hemisphere RU, in NZ you have loads of little.clubs that feed in to a club like Canterbury in the Mitre 10, then Super Rugby then NZ

So a player like Richie Mo'unga can sign to Canterbury academy at a young age, get some early experience at open age at Linwood, then Canterbury, then Crusaders and eventually NZ.

The Jaguares have just appeared in their first SR GF with basically the whole of Argentina as their feeder.

Similar happens in SA, Wales Ireland in Scotland (and Australia admittedly to less success)

The NRL has specific feeder clubs in their system but has started to move towards these regional pyramids in PNG and Fiji

When people say mergers, it's quite a vague term because if you say that Hudds and Sheffield or Hull and Gateshead merged people will say they didnt they were taken over. But that could be a merger, a joint venture ala St George and Illawara could be described as a merger, or we could have a merger of say the skolars and Broncos who go both carry on playing where they are now but under a new Super League club who they both feed in to

Because this should be an option looked in to by L1, Championship and lower end SL clubs  the forming of an SL umbrella venture and the bigger SL clubs could take some of the L1 and championship clubs under their wing and we could create regional pyramids instead of fiefdoms.

But that only works because it's the system, and everyone knows their place. Like it or not, outside cricket (which has always operated like that with the clubs feeding the counties) we've got a sporting culture in football, RL and RU of clubs competing with each other and dreaming of moving up the free gangway to the top. Now, of course for most clubs that's never going to happen, but the deluded fans (and I'll include myself in that) can afford to dream because no one is going round slamming the door in their face. 

There's a pecking order, and everyone knows roughly where they stand (or do if they can stop being one eyed for a second) but because it's not written down anywhere and not structural they can turn a blind eye to it. 

Start forcing clubs into groups, and making it very clear who is an official feeder club, and you basically are no longer watching say Hunslet, but Leeds A or Leeds Reserves. The jibes have always been there for many clubs, but if they suddenly become actually true, then what incentive has the Hunslet fan to go on paying his money. 

I think for a minority sport like RL it might work actually - but it would need to have been in place since 1895 and become part of the culture. It didn't, and it'd probably do more damage to start doing it now IMO. 

[iffleyox]

38 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

That's not really true, as say its very similar in wales, ireland and scotland. In RU in england they are moving towards and franchise system.

Just on this bit, and without going cross-code because I'm trying to argue why it's a bad idea for RL, it has been a demonstrable failure in every part of these islands *except* one...:

England - I'm not sure I agree with your contention that they're moving to a franchise system. I'd agree that there is a vast financial chasm between the Premiership and the Championship that means they've got a de facto ring-fence, but no one at all is talking about franchising as a formal proposition. In fact, fans of the other premiership clubs refer to Wasps as "the franchise" specifically to underline their scorn.

Scotland - no, franchising was imposed on a club system and has ruined the game. For a start, the entire country now has precisely 2 pro clubs. Participation has gone through the floor, even in a landscape of declining sports participation more generally.

Wales - no, the regions are held up by England as precisely why they don't want to go down that road. Attendances down, maelstrom of destruction in their Principality Premiership clubs as old powerhouses wither and player development pathways outside the pro academies collapse.

Ireland - yes it works. Because it's what they've always done. The Provinces have always been the pinnacle of Irish club rugby, and have been competing against each other in a formalised way (never mind the friendlies which go back much further) since the 1920s. They have not been magicked into existence by administrators trying to square circles, which is why the Welsh and Scottish "franchises" continue to struggle, and the game in both countries continues to haemorrhage paying spectators.

My point is that grafting plastic clubs onto/over existing rivalries (or unilaterally picking winners and subordinating all other clubs to them), has in fact *not* worked anywhere in Britain or Ireland. Yet. Such a rigid structure does work in English cricket, and Irish rugby, which have both always done it that way, and in which communities no one has ever know any different.

But good luck to the RFL if they want to be the ones to succeed in re-organising a British sport's over-a-century-old-psychology and bring the fans along with them where no one has before...

[Tonka]

I like the reference to Swinton on the Manchester Lions’ new badge. 

[Tommygilf]

5 minutes ago, Tonka said:

I like the reference to Swinton on the Manchester Lions’ new badge. 

 

[Man of Kent]

Getting away from nutty ideas for a minute and back to Swinton, the ‘Manchester Lions’ have issued a statement

https://swintonlionsrlfc.co.uk/news/board-statement-the-future/

[Oliver Clothesoff]

I smell another financial breakdown in the offing.