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Reports suggest Toronto Wolfpack not guaranteed SL place


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37 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

  At the same time, of course, Championship leaders Toronto Wolfpack are intent on earning the solitary promotion spot to replace London Broncos who were relegated at the weekend.

Elstone conceded Super League and the RFL are still seeking assurances the Canadian outfit will meet minimum standards for entry - but any decision will be made before the Championship play-off final.

“If Toronto win the right to be promoted then they have to meet minimum standards,” he said.

“We're talking to the RFL about what those standards look like, and we're seeking a number of assurances from them.

“We're still in dialogue with the RFL and it's important we get assurances well before promotion is secured on the pitch.

“It's a dialogue which started in July and we're getting close to an understanding on where they are as a club.

“What we can't do is make the decision after promotion on the pitch, it has to be done in advance of that."

French side Toulouse Olympique are also in the running for promotion.

Elstone added: “Toulouse will be asked to comply with minimum standards but there are a number of different concerns and issues relating to Toronto.

“There are some things we're seeking answers on that we don't feel we need to with Toulouse.

“That's not to say there's an anti-Toronto agenda, but the circumstances are different.”

Because this is the definitive case study of how a "serious organisation comprised of some well-funded clubs led by smart, successful businessmen" conducts itself. Less than three weeks before the playoff final, and they appear to have absolutely no clue what they are doing.

 

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47 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

  They don't seem to have worked that out yet.

  From another report - 

At the same time, of course, Championship leaders Toronto Wolfpack are intent on earning the solitary promotion spot to replace London Broncos who were relegated at the weekend.

Elstone conceded Super League and the RFL are still seeking assurances the Canadian outfit will meet minimum standards for entry - but any decision will be made before the Championship play-off final.

“If Toronto win the right to be promoted then they have to meet minimum standards,” he said.

“We're talking to the RFL about what those standards look like, and we're seeking a number of assurances from them.

“We're still in dialogue with the RFL and it's important we get assurances well before promotion is secured on the pitch.

“It's a dialogue which started in July and we're getting close to an understanding on where they are as a club.

“What we can't do is make the decision after promotion on the pitch, it has to be done in advance of that."

French side Toulouse Olympique are also in the running for promotion.

Elstone added: “Toulouse will be asked to comply with minimum standards but there are a number of different concerns and issues relating to Toronto.

“There are some things we're seeking answers on that we don't feel we need to with Toulouse.

“That's not to say there's an anti-Toronto agenda, but the circumstances are different.”

  Source - https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/super-league-boss-robert-elstone-admits-we-re-playing-too-many-games-and-it-needs-to-change-1-9998841

   They make British politicians look decent.Since July... and they still don't know what the minimum requirements are meant to be.

Its utterly laughable and completely absurd.

What if they'd won the play off last year? Surely all that was sorted then?

If not, it's even more embarrassing that they let them play the game without knowing whether they were playing for a promotion spot.

Lucky old Super League that London beat them to it. 

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I reckon they've spent most of the year seeking legal advice about the risks of reneging on an agreement made before their little lads club was formed.

They've likely been counselled that to do so, will not only expose the game to world-wide ridicule, it will reveal in glorious technicolor their total lack of integrity and (probably) incur costs and damages so gross it would bankrupt every club in the organisation.

I can't wait to see how it pans out. 

 

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1 minute ago, fighting irish said:

I reckon they've spent most of the year seeking legal advice about the risks of reneging on an agreement made before their little lads club was formed.

They've likely been counselled that to do so, will not only expose the game to world-wide ridicule, it will reveal in glorious technicolor their total lack of integrity and (probably) incur costs and damages so gross it would bankrupt every club in the organisation.

I can't wait to see how it pans out.

It all shows just how small time the so-called "Super League" is.

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I've read that statement by Elstone and it's appalling. That's not the game I've followed, played, refereed and coached for most of my life. We play hard, but we play fair. Toronto have put in the hard graft, the cash, and have got the results on the pitch thus far. They've played by the rules, and if they win, then the rules say they're entitled to join SL.

To change the rules three weeks before the final, in a blatant attempt to try to exclude them, is disgusting. I don't care what the motives are, whether it's naked self-interest or just the cringing timidity which has long crippled rugby league in this country. Toronto have played by the rules and they've earned their place. That's it. 

If Elstone and his SL chairmen find a way to exclude Toronto after they've done everything asked of them and more, then I for one will walk away from the game I've supported and contributed to for more than 30 years. I want no part of such an underhand, dishonest act as seems to be flagged up here. No more money from me for RL, and I'll also write to SKY and tell them exactly why I'm cancelling my subscription, and recommend they cut their losses with the sort of small-time tuppenny operation which would even consider pulling this sort of fraud.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Loup said:

100,000 Wolfpack fans are asking the same question.

Everybody knows that this is a blatant attempt at a fleece job!....I say Toronto call their bluff...its a straight backroom markup no doubt...

Don't make Argyle have to make that phone call...it will not go in the favour of SL.  The long term future of the entire game could be at stake here.

SL needs to be 'needy not greedy'.

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First, we have to assume SLE Ltd ordinary shareholders could get a 7-5 or more vote in favour of not allowing TWP access to SL. (6-6 & the RFL would surely break the tie in favour of TWP)

If we assume this we must then assume that SLE Ltd has a strong legal basis for blocking TWP from SL as to do so without would certainly lead to Legal Action taken against them by TWP.

There are genuine concerns around the Sustainability of TWP's own travel & accommodation costs. (Major Sponsorship Renewal / Replacement needed, to the value of approximately £850,000 per season assuming TWP play 14 Games in the Greater Toronto Area)

If a sponsorship deal isn't done to cover air travel, Argyle is gonna need to stick in the cash up front based on his refusal to pay for anything out of his own pocket except Player pay previously.

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Whilst I support the due diligence process that should be undertaken with any club winning the Championship final all clubs should be asked to comply a response to criteria BEFORE the season starts and have feedback ASAP.  

This gives clubs time to respond to perceived issues and to provide additional data should things change during the season.

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29 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Whilst I support the due diligence process that should be undertaken with any club winning the Championship final all clubs should be asked to comply a response to criteria BEFORE the season starts and have feedback ASAP.  

This gives clubs time to respond to perceived issues and to provide additional data should things change during the season.

That is why this clearly is a shakedown for straight cash.  Bastards!

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19 minutes ago, ojx said:

They are broke and looking at a substantially lower TV deal, so what would you expect.

Well I expect them to be marketing the game and gaining greater monies/revenue from outside sponsors and income streams but maybe like love, it's just a a sweet old fashioned notion.

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Well I expect them to be marketing the game and gaining greater monies/revenue from outside sponsors and income streams but maybe like love, it's just a a sweet old fashioned notion.

You're overlooking the fact that with their small town footprint and small time ways, they don't really have anything to market.

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19 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

You're overlooking the fact that with their small town footprint and small time ways, they don't really have anything to market.

(1) identification, selection and development of a product,

(2) determination of its price,

(3) selection of a distribution channel to reach the customer's place, and

(4) development and implementation of a promotional strategy.

And a belief in the product wouldn't go amiss which means not looking at the problems but the solutions and strengths.

And if this is true

"they don't really have anything to market."

Why are we on a forum discussing it and what motivated you to be here?

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Smudger06 said:

There are genuine concerns around the Sustainability of TWP's own travel & accommodation costs. (Major Sponsorship Renewal / Replacement needed, to the value of approximately £850,000 per season assuming TWP play 14 Games in the Greater Toronto Area)

If a sponsorship deal isn't done to cover air travel, Argyle is gonna need to stick in the cash up front based on his refusal to pay for anything out of his own pocket except Player pay previously.

Whoa Nelly ... the story is unfolding that SL clubs will be divvying up the 12th share of central funding if Wolfpack win the playoffs and get accepted: that's an additional £185,000 per SL team ($2 million / 11 clubs). More than enough for each SL club to pay for their own airfare and accommodation to Toronto. That's assuming Super League isn't clever enough to swing its own air sponsorship deal for the benefit of all teams.

You can't have it both ways. You can't stiff Wolfpack for a share of central funding that any other SL team would be entitled to receive, asking them to forfeit $2 million, AND demand that Wolfpack pay fares and accommodation for visiting teams.

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32 minutes ago, Oxford said:

(1) identification, selection and development of a product,

(2) determination of its price,

(3) selection of a distribution channel to reach the customer's place, and

(4) development and implementation of a promotional strategy.

And a belief in the product wouldn't go amiss which means not looking at the problems but the solutions and strengths.

And if this is true

"they don't really have anything to market."

Why are we on a forum discussing it and what motivated you to be here?

I got into the game years ago, back when Dave Silcock's group was trying to get it going in Canada.  It's only in the past couple of years that I've become aware of just how small time it is over there.  We're discussing it because of those recent developments and the various issues in the game.

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33 minutes ago, Loup said:

Whoa Nelly ... the story is unfolding that SL clubs will be divvying up the 12th share of central funding if Wolfpack win the playoffs and get accepted: that's an additional £185,000 per SL team ($2 million / 11 clubs). More than enough for each SL club to pay for their own airfare and accommodation to Toronto. That's assuming Super League isn't clever enough to swing its own air sponsorship deal for the benefit of all teams.

You can't have it both ways. You can't stiff Wolfpack for a share of central funding that any other SL team would be entitled to receive, asking them to forfeit $2 million, AND demand that Wolfpack pay fares and accommodation for visiting teams.

Whilst I agree that it is wrong to do so, they absolutely can demand that.

 

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On 12/09/2019 at 13:34, Damien said:

If they have survived for 3 years in League 1 and the Championship with the income generated there then I'm sure they can survive in Super League.

Do you realise what you have just said?  ? Featherstone have "survived" for since we were thrown out of division one at the onset of this circus and have even managed to redevelop our stadium.  Something our close and "richer" neighbours have not.

I demand to have some booze, I want it here and I want it now!

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1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

We're discussing it because of those recent developments and the various issues in the game.

Yes but either you believe in the product or you don't.

The recent developments are that should TWP be denied an SL place I'll no longer be bothered if they market RL or not, as I will no longer be following, supporting or being a very small income stream for TGG.

The ammount of "various issues in the game " is a direct result of fans with an axe to grind, journalists with a need for drama to sell the story and the other 99.9% are made up by Parky.

All of which contribute to the health and well being of the threads and forum.

The whole point of Elstone is to get the income streams, footprint and awareness to a much higher level adn demanding money from clubs who will provide inroads for that to happen doesn't strike me as a strategy for moving forward.

It's just like at work when you try a new way of doing things it all depends on who owns it most: the people that don't want it to go ahead, the staff who are unclear about what to do and where it's all going or the group who are always proactive see and spot things before they happen and then solutionise them or those who say it just can't be done.

This is one of those moments where we'll see, and it will define, what kind of SL chaimen we have the 1895, 1908, Brian Snape kind or a commitee of Parkies.

Though whichever they are they'll still be found wanting on the pages of this forum.

 

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:  Non-Political

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Roy Haggerty said:

I've read that statement by Elstone and it's appalling. That's not the game I've followed, played, refereed and coached for most of my life. We play hard, but we play fair. Toronto have put in the hard graft, the cash, and have got the results on the pitch thus far. They've played by the rules.....................disgusting.

Toronto set their own rules to seek entry to the game at top level here. Mr. Perez sat down in front of the TV cameras with Dave Woods and explained how his club would develop SL players pretty quickly from grid iron conversions to add the the player pool,  and they would work towards a TV deal with American broadcasters they could share here because apparently NATV are sports mad and pay well for exciting sports content.

Sadly TWP failed to play by their own rules which was to offer something more than dressing up 30 players from here in Canadian jerseys. go and look it up Roy, totally failed by their own criteria.

I'm all for winning your way to trophies and promotion but not by spending two £Million on a bought in professional team and consequently thrashing a load of part time clubs. You do have an odd idea of what sport should be about, leading to an odd idea of achievement. Had TWP retained the several Canadian& USA players they had and added to that (and not sacked them off which was truly "disgusting" )and won the Championship I'd be cheering them all the way to Superleague.

7 hours ago, Big Picture said:

It all shows just how small time the so-called "Super League" is.

Well it's not as "small time" as Canadian Rugby league. They hardly play it, the handful who do  are mainly RU players from the pool of 50,000 RU players from 300 Canadian RU clubs who operate there. But I don't think TWP have much to do with Canadian Rugby League anyway. Argyle didn't join Canada RL and he sacked off his NA players, and he has no interest in developing the very very "small time" game RL is in Canada.....

7 hours ago, fighting irish said:

I reckon they've spent most of the year seeking legal advice about the risks of reneging on an agreement made before their little lads club was formed. They've likely been counselled that to do so, will not only expose the game to world-wide ridicule, it will reveal in glorious technicolor their total lack of integrity and (probably) incur costs and damages so gross it would bankrupt every club in the organisation.

Perhaps you should have spent more of the year looking some stuff up. It was Nigel Wood and the Championship  who allowed TWP into their competition without any agreement with Superleague. Superleague had by then long since become their own masters and had rejected both Hunslet and Dewsbury from promotion after they had won the Championships fair and square.

So so much is made up about TWP whether paying crowd sizes, global media "eyeballs" the glamour, the slick marketing, the brilliant team (I last saw them against a poor Leeds side when there was nowt in it).......

So much is ignored about TWP, no player development, no TV deals, massive operating losses, debilitating travel times and above all the total pointlessness of having one North American club in Superleague, and the total pointlessness of having half of Superleague North American which actually is the plan Perez set out to achieve.

He was clear there was no point to just one North American club in Superleague, and the catch 22 if Perez had his way and half of Superleage was North American, what on earth do people on here think would happen if not just London were removed from SL to make way, but HKR, Wakefield, Salford, Huddersfield and Castleford.

Rather than post holier than though indignant "Angry of Mayfair" posts just because your pipedream may not come to pass, why don't you and everyone else face the reality that TWP are a fake Canadian club who are the remnants of a (yet another) failed attempt to expand the game in Canada.

They may get in yet as I really can't see SL scuppering the play off final - what a weird thing to threaten?

Good luck if they do, Argyle's enthusiasm for Rugby League and big wallet may be some sort of assett to Superleague but please stop pretending this is expansion, for if it really was and there are all these rich owners and massive TV deals, and players coming through in Canada then that's the end of the game here anyway............

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