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Reports suggest Toronto Wolfpack not guaranteed SL place


The Daddy

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I'm quite pleased I won't have to undergo the emotional turmoil the Toronto followers must be going through.Welcome to rugby league,by the way.You ain't the first and you may not be the last - but you may be.

Mr Elstone,back in June,last year,had the following to say - 

Elstone cited concerns that the Super 8s leaves too many Super League clubs concerned for their future in the competition, with, in theory, four clubs in danger of losing their top-flight status every season.

 

"We have looked at a competitive structure that really isn't working: effectively it provides too much uncertainty," said Elstone.

Source - https://www.skysports.com/rugby-league/news/12196/11402915/super-8s-to-be-scrapped-at-end-of-season-says-super-league-ceo-robert-elstone

Yesterday,Elstone was quoted as saying - 

 Elstone insisted it had been a “really good” season in the top-flight.

“We couldn't have scripted it better and we had the good fortune of Thursday and Friday when four teams could have gone down,” he added.

 Source - https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/super-league-boss-robert-elstone-admits-we-re-playing-too-many-games-and-it-needs-to-change-1-9998841

   It may depend on which way the wind is blowing and at what time of the day he is asked.Plus,of course,what the elite club owners instruct.

 

     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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1 hour ago, Mattrhino said:

Yep. Instead of shouting on the roof tops about the possibility of one of two clubs based in two great world class cities, exactly what Super League was created for in 96. 

Featherstone's technically a town, but point taken.

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2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

The whole thing is pathetic from start to finish. 

I think elstone is doing some good things, I think he is doing some necessary things, I think the 'split' was absolutely necessary, the governance of having Wood and Barwick wearing two hats was awful 

However Elstones public relations are atrocious. Every time he opens his mouth he creates negative questions. 

Putting aside the question of Toronto and the backward, small-time attitude endemic within the game. Even if there are questions regarding Toronto, why bring them up now and undermine an entire season just as it gets to its finish? Toronto know the discussions that are ongoing, the RFL do, SL do. What benefit could there possibly be to releasing this information to the public at this point other than making his own organisation look weak, questiong the viability of the sport he is supposed to be out there selling, undermining a club and undermining both competitions. 

Maybe Elstone is doing some great work behind the scenes but part of his job is to be the corporate face of Super League and his first year has been really really really bad. 

Well I haven't seen much from him since the big split of any positivity. He just seems to be the face of the selfish Chairmen he represents.

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1 minute ago, Angelic Cynic said:

I'm quite pleased I won't have to undergo the emotional turmoil the Toronto followers must be going through.Welcome to rugby league,by the way.You ain't the first and you may not be the last - but you may be.

Mr Elstone,back in June,last year,had the following to say - 

Elstone cited concerns that the Super 8s leaves too many Super League clubs concerned for their future in the competition, with, in theory, four clubs in danger of losing their top-flight status every season.

 

"We have looked at a competitive structure that really isn't working: effectively it provides too much uncertainty," said Elstone.

Source - https://www.skysports.com/rugby-league/news/12196/11402915/super-8s-to-be-scrapped-at-end-of-season-says-super-league-ceo-robert-elstone

Yesterday,Elstone was quoted as saying - 

 Elstone insisted it had been a “really good” season in the top-flight.

“We couldn't have scripted it better and we had the good fortune of Thursday and Friday when four teams could have gone down,” he added.

 Source - https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/super-league-boss-robert-elstone-admits-we-re-playing-too-many-games-and-it-needs-to-change-1-9998841

   It may depend on which way the wind is blowing and at what time of the day he is asked.Plus,of course,what the elite club owners instruct.

 

Good quotes, particularly as in the future I expect Elstone to be arguing against relegation.

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Just now, Gooleboy said:

Well I haven't seen much from him since the big split of any positivity. He just seems to be the face of the selfish Chairmen he represents.

We shouldn't automatically assume that the clubs are being selfish. 

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3 hours ago, Dave T said:

I dont think Elstone was very impressive in what he said. I think it is absolutely fair enough that the entry requirements for a team from Toronto differ from those from Toulouse, which differ from those for a team in Yorkshire. 

The way he worded it all was very negatively positioned against TWP in my opinion though.

There is one point though that keeps getting ignored. Expansion to Toronto was not part of any SL strategy (mock all you want, but other Euro leagues in sport arent either), and if they now came in under normal arrangements some SL funds that currently go into the UK game would go to the game in Canada and the current clubs would incur higher costs. As a starting point I think that is reasonable that TWP are not admitted as per the BAU agreement that would see York admitted for example.

There is a stance that if this club is so lucrative with such good sponsorship deals and a rich backer, it should be pretty easy to tap into these income streams and self fund no problem via the Toronto market. SLE dont want to take the risk so are putting all the onus on TWP. For many that would be a reasonable position for something that has been put to them, rather than them targeting it as a growth area.

That said, we need to make sure we do not go too far and be unwelcoming to future developments. For me, if we are not giving them the £1.8m tv funds then the clubs should self fund any travel and that reduces the pressure on TWP to do a deal, and keeps the TV money invested in the UK. I think it is reasonable to want some guarantees that they can self fund, but surely that is quite an easy thing to do. I have no issue with making demands, but let's not make them too onerous - not that we have any evidence at all that this is the case.

Throughout this whole exercise you have always postulated that, in the end, SL would know what they are doing...making excuses for them at every turn.

I have stated on numerous occasions that this is simply an exercise to juice both Toronto and Ottawa for more money in a typical fraud scam...you have always come out against that concept and have stated that what SL is doing is reasonable....change your mind on that yet?

SL better not force  Argyle to make that  phone call...it won't go well for them.

They are stupid...stupid...stupid!   And I think its clear that you owe me an apology.

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Just now, Gooleboy said:

I take it you support a SL Club then?

I support Warrington, but I have no issue criticising them. And I don't believe that Moran is scrapping around for a few grand here and there. 

But as a comp, maybe they have genuine concerns that TWP are not paying bills and haven't provided the guarantees required. 

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Just now, Kayakman said:

Throughout this whole exercise you have always postulated that, in the end, SL would know what they are doing...making excuses for them at every turn.

I have stated on numerous occasions that this is simply an exercise to juice both Toronto and Ottawa for more money in a typical fraud scam...you have always come out against that concept and have stated that what SL is doing is reasonable....change your mind on that yet?

SL better not force  Argyle to make that  phone call...it won't go well for them.

They are stupid...stupid...stupid!   And I think its clear that you owe me an apology.

I don't need to make excuses for SLE. It is their comp. TWP have to meet the requirements to get in. 

I have no issue with SLE making certain demands for entry of a team in Canada. If SL wanted to put a £2m price tag on entry, they are well within their rights to do so.

Where I would be critical is a) not being clear and up front on those requirements, b ) starting conversations in July looks incompetent, c) Elstone's negative tone and not embracing the opportunity to tell a positive story

 

The only public information here is that SLE have asked for financial commitments and guarantees. That is their prerogative. It is not a scam or a fraud. It may not be the way you or I would have gone,  but I don't see any scam here at all.

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8 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Well I haven't seen much from him since the big split of any positivity. He just seems to be the face of the selfish Chairmen he represents.

He is not the right person for the job....small minded with no backbone....he reminds me of a Golem type character...a disgusting little henchman.

The guy SL needs is actually Bob Hunter who works for the Wolfpack.

If Bob Hunter was put in charge of SL,  within 5 years they would be healthier and stronger than the NRL! 

Elstone and Rimmer couldn't organize a plan to work their way out of a wet paper bag.

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4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I don't need to make excuses for SLE. It is their comp. TWP have to meet the requirements to get in. 

I have no issue with SLE making certain demands for entry of a team in Canada. If SL wanted to put a £2m price tag on entry, they are well within their rights to do so.

Where I would be critical is a) not being clear and up front on those requirements, b ) starting conversations in July looks incompetent, c) Elstone's negative tone and not embracing the opportunity to tell a positive story

 

The only public information here is that SLE have asked for financial commitments and guarantees. That is their prerogative. It is not a scam or a fraud. It may not be the way you or I would have gone,  but I don't see any scam here at all.

Do they get these guarantees off their existing Clubs?

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8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I don't need to make excuses for SLE. It is their comp. TWP have to meet the requirements to get in. 

I have no issue with SLE making certain demands for entry of a team in Canada. If SL wanted to put a £2m price tag on entry, they are well within their rights to do so.

Where I would be critical is a) not being clear and up front on those requirements, b ) starting conversations in July looks incompetent, c) Elstone's negative tone and not embracing the opportunity to tell a positive story

 

The only public information here is that SLE have asked for financial commitments and guarantees. That is their prerogative. It is not a scam or a fraud. It may not be the way you or I would have gone,  but I don't see any scam here at all.

Then you are clearly willfully ignorant:

"Although the term was originally—and still is—used in legal contexts, the phrase "willful ignorance" has come to mean any situation in which people intentionally turn their attention away from an ethical problem that is believed to be important by those using the phrase (for instance, because the problem is too disturbing for people to want it dominating their thoughts, or from the knowledge that solving the problem would require extensive effort)."

This is a clear shakedown of TWP and Ottawa for money, both the RFL and SL are broke with no vision for moving forward.  Sad.

But there is hope...this will all get worked out and TWP will, eventually, take over thew whole operation AND save RL from itself in the northern hemisphere.

WE ARE COMING TO SAVE YOU BROTHERS, HOLD ON!...WE HAVE THE BLESSINGS OF THE RUGBY GODS AND WE ARE COMING!

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Just now, Gooleboy said:

Do they get these guarantees off their existing Clubs?

It depends what the guarantees are, doesn't it?

If they want guarantees that clubs can afford the extensive travel requirements and ability to stage games at their stadium throughout the year, that would be a pretty short conversation.

But as has been highlighted, admitting Toronto into SL is very different to admitting York into SL, it is silly to suggest otherwise.

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2 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Then you are clearly willfully ignorant:

"Although the term was originally—and still is—used in legal contexts, the phrase "willful ignorance" has come to mean any situation in which people intentionally turn their attention away from an ethical problem that is believed to be important by those using the phrase (for instance, because the problem is too disturbing for people to want it dominating their thoughts, or from the knowledge that solving the problem would require extensive effort)."

This is a clear shakedown of TWP and Ottawa for money, both the RFL and SL are broke with no vision for moving forward.  Sad.

But there is hope...this will all get worked out andf TWP will, eventually, take over thew whole operationa dn save RL from itself in the northern hemisphere.

WE ARE COMING TO SAVE YOU BROTHERS, HOLD ON!...WE HAVE THE BLESSINGS OF THE RUGBY GODS AND WE ARE COMING!

I don't know why we don't fully embrace the North American model and use 'Expansion fees':

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49415476

 

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It depends what the guarantees are, doesn't it?

If they want guarantees that clubs can afford the extensive travel requirements and ability to stage games at their stadium throughout the year, that would be a pretty short conversation.

But as has been highlighted, admitting Toronto into SL is very different to admitting York into SL, it is silly to suggest otherwise.

Quit making excuses for their despicable behaviour.

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3 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

But there is hope...this will all get worked out and TWP will, eventually, take over thew whole operation AND save RL from itself in the northern hemisphere.

WE ARE COMING TO SAVE YOU BROTHERS, HOLD ON!...WE HAVE THE BLESSINGS OF THE RUGBY GODS AND WE ARE COMING!

Jesus kman, I don't think THAT will happen, but if na expansion is successful then hopefully the league (s) will save themselves.

Value added, not hostile take over ?

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1 minute ago, TboneFromTO said:

Jesus kman, I don't think THAT will happen, but if na expansion is successful then hopefully the league (s) will save themselves.

Value added, not hostile take over ?

These guys are so incompetent even an average Joe could take it over and make it a winner.  

Think about what a man like Argyle is going to do once he gets in there...we will be running the whole operation within a few years.

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yes. Making excuses is bad.

I remember that from the racist comments thread and the ones about TWP not paying their bills.

Well clearly you didn't learn any lessons from that!...quit making excuses for these goons...and quit spreading false rumours that are not true.

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4 hours ago, Dave T said:

Any money for broadcasting SL is SLE's.

I know.  I am just frustrated that with the current SKY deal the 11 SL clubs want it to keep it all if Toronto are promoted.  But if Toronto do get a TV deal then the other 11 Chairmen will want it split 12 ways .... or I can even see the other 11 Chairmen wanting to keep all that as well and Toronto get sweet FA.

It stinks to high heaven.

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2 hours ago, nadera78 said:

We all know clubs didn't want to fund reserve teams, and one of them refused to even fund an academy, but are now being forced to. So we can make a pretty good guess at why they are looking greedily at an easy £180,000 p/a.

Hoping that SL would ring fence that money for travel and marketing is to ignore the evidence of the clubs' own behaviour.

It won't even go on the reserves mate, it'll go straight onto the increasing salary cap.....

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