Reports suggest Toronto Wolfpack not guaranteed SL place

[GUBRATS]

15 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

And among Canadian gridiron players, as CanadianRugger points out that will be the vast majority of them.

It's interesting that the QB was the best player, I think that guys like Doug Flutie and Tim Tebow would have excelled at RL.  How were his defensive skills?

But none anywhere near good enough at the ' trials ' they held 

[CanadianRugger]

10 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

And among Canadian gridiron players, as CanadianRugger points out that will be the vast majority of them.

It's interesting that the QB was the best player, I think that guys like Doug Flutie and Tim Tebow would have excelled at RL.  How were his defensive skills?

His number one sport was actually wrestling.  He was on Team Ontario for Freestyle Wrestling.  An all around superb athlete and his tackling was outstanding.  His wrestling background allowed him to take down players that were far bigger than him.  

Doug Flutie kicked a drop goal many years ago when he still played.  

Interestingly, he credited Canadian Mike Vanderjagt with the move who was a kicker with the Toronto Argonauts when Flutie was there.  Vanderjagt played soccer and rugby in his youth and he and Doug would practice drop kicks before every match.

[CanadianRugger]

4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

But none anywhere near good enough at the ' trials ' they held 

They signed Ngawati didn't they?  He and Ryan Burroughs were both with the club but the RFL quota system prevented them from playing more games.  

Ngawati is with Canada 7s now but he isn't a starter.  If League pays more they will get better players.  They won't be producing playmakers but prop forwards and wings should be easy enough to produce.

[Big Picture]

Just now, CanadianRugger said:

They signed Ngawati didn't they?  He and Ryan Burroughs were both with the club but the RFL quota system prevented them from playing more games.  

Ngawati is with Canada 7s now but he isn't a starter.  If League pays more they will get better players.  They won't be producing playmakers but prop forwards and wings should be easy enough to produce.

I've thought for some time that defensive linemen could become props fairly easily, linebackers could become second-row forwards and defensive backs could transition to centre or wing, what do you think?  Some safeties could probably handle the fullback position too.

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

They signed Ngawati didn't they?  He and Ryan Burroughs were both with the club but the RFL quota system prevented them from playing more games.  

Ngawati is with Canada 7s now but he isn't a starter.  If League pays more they will get better players.  They won't be producing playmakers but prop forwards and wings should be easy enough to produce.

So they weren't good enough 

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

They signed Ngawati didn't they?  He and Ryan Burroughs were both with the club but the RFL quota system prevented them from playing more games.  

Ngawati is with Canada 7s now but he isn't a starter.  If League pays more they will get better players.  They won't be producing playmakers but prop forwards and wings should be easy enough to produce.

Aye , if you say so

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

I've thought for some time that defensive linemen could become props fairly easily, linebackers could become second-row forwards and defensive backs could transition to centre or wing, what do you think?  Some safeties could probably handle the fullback position too.

[CanadianRugger]

5 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Aye , if you say so

I didn't say it, Paul Rowley did.  He said he would have had Ryan Burroughs in every week but quota rules prevented him from playing more.

Which is another problem that needs to be addressed.  

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, CanadianRugger said:

I didn't say it, Paul Rowley did.  He said he would have had Ryan Burroughs in every week but quota rules prevented him from playing more.

Which is another problem that needs to be addressed.  

How well do you know Paul ?

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

I didn't say it, Paul Rowley did.  He said he would have had Ryan Burroughs in every week but quota rules prevented him from playing more.

Which is another problem that needs to be addressed.  

If he was good enough he'd have been playing week in, week out, quota rules or not.

[CanadianRugger]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

If he was good enough he'd have been playing week in, week out, quota rules or not.

That's fallacious for a number of reasons.  It hurts Canadian players playing Rugby Union in Europe as well.  

[bobbruce]

20 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

That's fallacious for a number of reasons.  It hurts Canadian players playing Rugby Union in Europe as well.  

Are you suggesting the RFL make Canadian players quota players for Toronto. 

[Damien]

21 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

That's fallacious for a number of reasons.  It hurts Canadian players playing Rugby Union in Europe as well.  

It's not, it's a quite obvious. A coach will pick the best team, Burroughs wasn't part of that. If they are good enough they will play. Blaming it on a quota issue is a complete red herring.

[fairfolly]

What a conundrum for S.L.      Toronto v Fev. in the final with neither being allowed in S.L. Could it happen? and if so what would S.L. do then?

[Oliver Clothesoff]

1 minute ago, fairfolly said:

What a conundrum for S.L.      Toronto v Fev. in the final with neither being allowed in S.L. Could it happen? and if so what would S.L. do then?

Why wouldn’t Fev be allowed in? I’ve seen nothing to suggest as much. 

 

[fairfolly]

Why would Toronto not be allowed in? What would Fev. bring to S.L. that Toronto would not.? Fev. would be taking a cut of Sky Money, Toronto would not. Neither club has an academy.Toronto have big money behind them, Fev. have not.Fev. have relied on D/R and loans this season, Toronto have not. At the end of the day whatever you or I think S.L. hierarchy will have the final say even though i believe the R.F.L. have a casting vote, they will do what the S.L. wants.

[ojx]

1 hour ago, fairfolly said:

What a conundrum for S.L.      Toronto v Fev. in the final with neither being allowed in S.L. Could it happen? and if so what would S.L. do then?

It will be the end of the sport as a serious investment. Gradually decreasing TV contracts and being dwarfed by Union.

[Big Picture]

Just now, ojx said:

It will be the end of the sport as a serious investment. Gradually decreasing TV contracts and being dwarfed by Union.

The sport is already dwarfed by Union, it desperately needs the likes of Toronto to give it a way of breaking through that.

[Man of Kent]

No nuggets in the trade weeklies on the promotion situation but LW reports the media company Wolfpack stiffed for C$300k won their lawsuit but still haven’t been paid so they have to go to court again. TWP have settled out of court with another broadcast company over unpaid bills. 

[ojx]

2 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

No nuggets in the trade weeklies on the promotion situation but LW reports the media company Wolfpack stiffed for C$300k won their lawsuit but still haven’t been paid so they have to go to court again. TWP have settled out of court with another broadcast company over unpaid bills. 

Like most lawsuits, I'm sure there are two sides to the story. But it is interesting to know the case is active, thanks for the update.

[Man of Kent]

6 minutes ago, ojx said:

Like most lawsuits, I'm sure there are two sides to the story. But it is interesting to know the case is active, thanks for the update.

They didn’t file a defence...

[CanadianRugger]

14 minutes ago, ojx said:

Like most lawsuits, I'm sure there are two sides to the story. But it is interesting to know the case is active, thanks for the update.

Same old story from you.  You are like Nostradamus, maybe your predictions will eventually come true.  

Just like Brian Noble was sacked eh?

[Man of Kent]

34 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

Same old story from you.  You are like Nostradamus, maybe your predictions will eventually come true.  

Just like Brian Noble was sacked eh?

Like I said at the time, Noble is no longer director of the UK operation. All there in black and white. Hope he got paid (!)

[sheddingswasus]

3 hours ago, fairfolly said:

What a conundrum for S.L.      Toronto v Fev. in the final with neither being allowed in S.L. Could it happen? and if so what would S.L. do then?

I must say that for many weeks I have wondered why the likes of London etc were signing the players of quality they were for next season.

Maybe they know something the least of us don't?

[The Parksider]

14 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Expansion or Substitution?, without having the ability to add to a very meagre playing pool  - worldwide - it is to me just substitution, and  that will ultimately lead to the demise of teams over here to furnish new clubs over there.Do  do these people never stop to think why we need to employ circa. 90 overseas players in the UK. 

I can't believe in their heart of hearts they do not really know that shipping squads of 30 players here over to Canada at a massive cost to pretend RL is expanding in a country where they don't play the game, and where a few thousand spectators are enticed by free tickets to a half match half beer festival is not expansion. But in our little corner of RL on here, too many people have invested too much in an empty dream to want to admit it's all nonsense. Why should they face the facts when it may be TWP get promoted by SL clubs who include people like Pearson and McManus who actually called it all out as total nonsense just a few weeks ago?? 

12 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

In a growing world Harry you grow with it or shrink , similarly you are no doubt aware as you've been ' in business ' that you need to  constantly look for new markets and new customers.....2 clubs we can accommodate without too much risk IMO.Llet's display some common sense and see where it might take us 

With respect your just sitting on the fence. The business of Yorkshire/Lancashire Rugby League works and has worked from 1896 to date and continues to work. 50 expansion projects have come and gone in that time and all failed. Toronto Wolfpack are the 51st to fail, as they can't produce the players, they can't find a paying TV deal, and in trying to do so they have lost $$$Millions, taking us nowhere, and in the process showing there is no cost effective model for opening clubs in North America. If there is tell me what it is?

12 hours ago, Scubby said:

As a business man, I would ask Toulouse and Toronto exactly how much money has it cost you ####### about trying to weave through a chippy part-time league structure in the UK. Had that money been spent on infrastructure, marketing, player development, outreach etc. - while building towards a SL place in say 2020 or 2021 - what could that have done?

Your no business man when you can't understand a business deal. You have made up that rubbish about infrastructure, marketing and outreach. The deal on record was as Perez set out, that Toronto would produce players and paying TV deals in return for being accepted here. That was it. let's look at the player production side of it..........

Eric Perez 6^th, May 2016 Perez: “We will be working with the CRL to develop a strong talent pool. (We will) focus on investing in player development here in Canada so that we can build our home grown talent”. 

Eric Perez 19^th. July 2016 “We want as many Canadians in the squad as possible, there is a wealth of talent, college football super athletes who only need a little bit of upskiling to play pro Rugby league.

Brian Noble 27^th, April 2016“It’s important to have home grown flavour,” Noble said. “we’ll be spending a month here to ensure we find the top athletes this country is producing: there will be North American roots.”

Eric Perez 23^rd Nov 2016 “Toronto are committed to developing talent in north America, there will be ‘at least five, maybe 10,’ players from Canada, the USA and Jamaica in the squad”.

Eric Perez 24^th. March 2019 “It will take some time but Toronto are inspiring people to play rugby league. In 10-15 years, Canada will be able to challenge for a top four spot in international rugby league”.

Eric Perez 24^th. May 2019 “it takes time to develop high level Rugby League talent. If it was that easy Rugby League would not be worth watching”.

On entry to Superleague Perez was boasting about all the players he would bring us, but by May this year he was reduced to making a feeble excuse for not just failing to produce any players, but failing to even have any system for doing so, by his own words he didn't "find it easy" and reverted to his usual lame excuse of "It will take time".

Real business deals are not sustained on constant jam tomorrow promises, there are no players and never will be. Argyle knew that when he recently totally ignored Bob Jowett of Canada RL whom Perez had said in May 2016 they would be working with. TWP now want to change the goalposts for entry to SL by using the player pool here. The deal should by rights be off......