Reports suggest Toronto Wolfpack not guaranteed SL place

[Loup]

7 hours ago, Themusician_2 said:

Whether I'm Canadian or not you can't deny the places where league is strongest union is either weak (Australia) or dead (papua new Giunea). In order for league to truly flourish in Canada union must be defeated.

This is nonsense. Neither union nor league are that strong in Canada and there is no code war here. Sorry, but there isn't.

[Loup]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

Like I said at the time, Noble is no longer director of the UK operation. All there in black and white. Hope he got paid (!)

Brian Noble was at the match today at Lamport. We had a quick chat. Definitely him, not his twin brother.

 

[Kayakman]

11 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Answer me this please and it is back to my first paragraph, if we were to go along and let in say 4 new NA clubs how would their player roster's be filled? If as is your club's strategy the majority are from the British game then we simply can't support that, something would have to give and if we're at the expense of some clubs over here then as I explained in my posts it could have a knock on effect all the way down the pyramid and then we all suffer.

 Let's imagine the British game is like you in your cabin, held up in the weather, no way you can venture outside and your larder is fast running out, would you put all your eggs in one basket so to speak and eat normally or ration yourself in the realisation that a thaw will come and you can survive? Our clubs are our lifeblood we need them to produce more offspring to carry on the sport, losing them to an entity that has not prooved itself yet on sustainability would be madness, we need to make our whole game stronger from the bottom up then and only then will we be in a position to sustain others.

PS regarding that wager, sorry but I could not possibly nail another teams colours to my avatar, and I will save you the ignominious prospect of having to don the avatar of the club that has taken what you believe to be your rightful place in SL

 

Para One:   Player rosters to be  filled with people.  Would you like some cheese with that whine?  Toughen up Harry; you sound like an Old Woman who hasn't got here tea on time.

Para Two:  I would get on the horn and order in a full airdrop.  Its sort of like how SL desperately needs Toronto....we will save you Harry...help is coming!  Quit that balling like a Baby!  Toughen up Harry; you are making more noise than a ###### run of a tree by the dog  in the cornfield!

Para Three:  Now hold on one sec right there Harry Stottle...I'm willing to take the bet!; now you should support and back your posts with accepting the bet if you are serious.  I'm in!!!!!!

P.S.  We will not merely participate in SL...we will dominate SL.

"Run With The Pack!"

[Themusician_2]

8 hours ago, Loup said:

This is nonsense. Neither union nor league are that strong in Canada and there is no code war here. Sorry, but there isn't.

Not yet

[The Future is League]

8 hours ago, The Parksider said:

I can't believe in their heart of hearts they do not really know that shipping squads of 30 players here over to Canada at a massive cost to pretend RL is expanding in a country where they don't play the game, and where a few thousand spectators are enticed by free tickets to a half match half beer festival is not expansion. But in our little corner of RL on here, too many people have invested too much in an empty dream to want to admit it's all nonsense. Why should they face the facts when it may be TWP get promoted by SL clubs who include people like Pearson and McManus who actually called it all out as total nonsense just a few weeks ago?? 

With respect your just sitting on the fence. The business of Yorkshire/Lancashire Rugby League works and has worked from 1896 to date and continues to work. 50 expansion projects have come and gone in that time and all failed. Toronto Wolfpack are the 51st to fail, as they can't produce the players, they can't find a paying TV deal, and in trying to do so they have lost $$$Millions, taking us nowhere, and in the process showing there is no cost effective model for opening clubs in North America. If there is tell me what it is?

Your no business man when you can't understand a business deal. You have made up that rubbish about infrastructure, marketing and outreach. The deal on record was as Perez set out, that Toronto would produce players and paying TV deals in return for being accepted here. That was it. let's look at the player production side of it..........

Eric Perez 6^th, May 2016 Perez: “We will be working with the CRL to develop a strong talent pool. (We will) focus on investing in player development here in Canada so that we can build our home grown talent”. 

Eric Perez 19^th. July 2016 “We want as many Canadians in the squad as possible, there is a wealth of talent, college football super athletes who only need a little bit of upskiling to play pro Rugby league.

Brian Noble 27^th, April 2016“It’s important to have home grown flavour,” Noble said. “we’ll be spending a month here to ensure we find the top athletes this country is producing: there will be North American roots.”

Eric Perez 23^rd Nov 2016 “Toronto are committed to developing talent in north America, there will be ‘at least five, maybe 10,’ players from Canada, the USA and Jamaica in the squad”.

Eric Perez 24^th. March 2019 “It will take some time but Toronto are inspiring people to play rugby league. In 10-15 years, Canada will be able to challenge for a top four spot in international rugby league”.

Eric Perez 24^th. May 2019 “it takes time to develop high level Rugby League talent. If it was that easy Rugby League would not be worth watching”.

On entry to Superleague Perez was boasting about all the players he would bring us, but by May this year he was reduced to making a feeble excuse for not just failing to produce any players, but failing to even have any system for doing so, by his own words he didn't "find it easy" and reverted to his usual lame excuse of "It will take time".

Real business deals are not sustained on constant jam tomorrow promises, there are no players and never will be. Argyle knew that when he recently totally ignored Bob Jowett of Canada RL whom Perez had said in May 2016 they would be working with. TWP now want to change the goalposts for entry to SL by using the player pool here. The deal should by rights be off......

Read and weep Parky when you see what the crowd was

https://www.rugby-league.com/championship__league_1/article/55748/toronto-in-final-after-impressive-win-over-toulouse

[Harry Stottle]

7 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Para One:   Player rosters to be  filled with people.  Would you like some cheese with that whine?  Toughen up Harry; you sound like an Old Woman who hasn't got here tea on time.

Para Two:  I would get on the horn and order in a full airdrop.  Its sort of like how SL desperately needs Toronto....we will save you Harry...help is coming!  Quit that balling like a Baby!  Toughen up Harry; you are making more noise than a ###### run of a tree by the dog  in the cornfield!

Para Three:  Now hold on one sec right there Harry Stottle...I'm willing to take the bet!; now you should support and back your posts with accepting the bet if you are serious.  I'm in!!!!!!

P.S.  We will not merely participate in SL...we will dominate SL.

"Run With The Pack!"

Again you hide behind a bushel, I can't believe you are a proper hunter as you tell us, you speak to soft for one to imagine you see the whites of your targets eyes, you give the impression that your skills level out at sneaking about laying poisonous bait.

Para one, "Player rosters to be filled with proper people" is that really the best you can do, very juvenile answer.

Para two, "I would get on the horn and order an airdrop" precisely, I did not expect anything else, exactly the same feeble excuse that eminates from the many who tell us "we don't care about where are teams participants come from in any professional Canadian sport, thats what we do"  I will rephrase that for you, "in Canada we have not got the gumption, nous or raw materials to produce our own of anything near the required quality, it is something not in our nature for us to be self reliant we just lend on others to produce the goods we need, then we ship them in"

Para three, I have been to long giving my allegiance to my club, the one that contains quite a number of my own townsfolk to don the favours of another, I know it would be an easy fit for you to do, see para two!

Your PS. Good look with that one, the rules will not let your or any other NA club to just spend, spend, spend to reach the top. 

It may have passed you by (because it is not in your sporting culture, see para two) but for a club in our sport, "The British Rugby League", those clubs who have been and continue to be successful and have stood the test of time are the one's who are self sufficient who bring kids into their system, nurture them, learn them and train them, I know that most probably sounds a stupid way to accomplish your goals why go to all that trouble (see para two), but it really is and the only way any club in Rugby League can gain success why we employ a spending ceiling, but long may (your Arkala) Mr Argyle live or keep his interest, without him, you will be remembering and thinking it was good while it lasted.

 MY PPS. It's easy to throw insults about K'man you have not got a monoply to do that, for your club and any others eminating from your continent to be successful, the whole structure of the British game will have to change, and as you most probably observe when you are sitting on your sledge, 'the tail does not wag the dog!' 

 

 

 

[Kayakman]

3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Again you hide behind a bushel, I can't believe you are a proper hunter as you tell us, you speak to soft for one to imagine you see the whites of your targets eyes, you give the impression that your skills level out at sneaking about laying poisonous bait.

Para one, "Player rosters to be filled with proper people" is that really the best you can do, very juvenile answer.

Para two, "I would get on the horn and order an airdrop" precisely, I did not expect anything else, exactly the same feeble excuse that eminates from the many who tell us "we don't care about where are teams participants come from in any professional Canadian sport, thats what we do"  I will rephrase that for you, "in Canada we have not got the gumption, nous or raw materials to produce our own of anything near the required quality, it is something not in our nature for us to be self reliant we just lend on others to produce the goods we need, then we ship them in"

Para three, I have been to long giving my allegiance to my club, the one that contains quite a number of my own townsfolk to don the favours of another, I know it would be an easy fit for you to do, see para two!

Your PS. Good look with that one, the rules will not let your or any other NA club to just spend, spend, spend to reach the top. 

It may have passed you by (because it is not in your sporting culture, see para two) but for a club in our sport, "The British Rugby League", those clubs who have been and continue to be successful and have stood the test of time are the one's who are self sufficient who bring kids into their system, nurture them, learn them and train them, I know that most probably sounds a stupid way to accomplish your goals why go to all that trouble (see para two), but it really is and the only way any club in Rugby League can gain success why we employ a spending ceiling, but long may (your Arkala) Mr Argyle live or keep his interest, without him, you will be remembering and thinking it was good while it lasted.

 MY PPS. It's easy to throw insults about K'man you have not got a monoply to do that, for your club and any others eminating from your continent to be successful, the whole structure of the British game will have to change, and as you most probably observe when you are sitting on your sledge, 'the tail does not wag the dog!' 

 

 

 

Are you taking the bet or not Harry? 

[Man of Kent]

12 hours ago, Loup said:

Brian Noble was at the match today at Lamport. We had a quick chat. Definitely him, not his twin brother.

 

Did you ask him if he's owed any money?

[Harry Stottle]

On 22/09/2019 at 18:11, Big Picture said:

Only because the organizers have taken that easy route instead of targetting former gridiron players who aren't playing union and building their teams that way instead.

None of those "ready made for Rugby League" (gridiron) athletes passed the many lauded auditions that were made in many locations in N.A. and that was at a time when TWP could have introduced them to the game in the lowest professional league,  playing alongside seasoned professionals who could have protected and nurtured them, as TWP have risen through the division there is not a snowball in hells chance of those auditions being repeated.

[Harry Stottle]

6 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Are you taking the bet or not Harry? 

No.

[GUBRATS]

18 hours ago, The Parksider said:

 

With respect your just sitting on the fence. The business of Yorkshire/Lancashire Rugby League works and has worked from 1896 to date and continues to work. 50 expansion projects have come and gone in that time 

I certainly am , as I've suggested a 2 team NA ' conference ' within SL ( as well as a European , well French ) is potentially workable providing the finances are guaranteed , there are as you point out a load of holes in what was originally promised , but Toronto are here , they are drawing very good attendances , it seems Mr Argyle is willing to spend 

So set out the conditions , including working with RL Canada , if they agree then let's see where it takes us 

Nothing ventured , nothing gained 

[TboneFromTO]

14 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I certainly am , as I've suggested a 2 team NA ' conference ' within SL ( as well as a European , well French ) is potentially workable providing the finances are guaranteed , there are as you point out a load of holes in what was originally promised , but Toronto are here , they are drawing very good attendances , it seems Mr Argyle is willing to spend 

So set out the conditions , including working with RL Canada , if they agree then let's see where it takes us 

Nothing ventured , nothing gained 

Hopefully with enough teams we have a international super 8s style qualifiers for SL (only for no UK teams) top 2 (or 4 if enough teams join and go 14 SL) 

Kinda like champions League qualifiers for football

Toronto Toulouse Ottawa Catalans New York and who ever else!

[Eddie]

21 hours ago, Big Picture said:

The sport is already dwarfed by Union, it desperately needs the likes of Toronto to give it a way of breaking through that.

At club level it isn’t dwarfed by Union; our top flight average attendances aren’t far behind and our second tier ones are significantly better. Internationally though then yes of course. 

[GUBRATS]

24 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

Hopefully with enough teams we have a international super 8s style qualifiers for SL (only for no UK teams) top 2 (or 4 if enough teams join and go 14 SL) 

Kinda like champions League qualifiers for football

Toronto Toulouse Ottawa Catalans New York and who ever else!

Err ? , No 

[TboneFromTO]

11 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Err ? , No 

You'd prefer the possibility that those 5 teams take 5 SL places?

[Krzzystuff]

23 hours ago, fairfolly said:

Why would Toronto not be allowed in? What would Fev. bring to S.L. that Toronto would not.? Fev. would be taking a cut of Sky Money, Toronto would not.

The thing is that in the interviews of Bob Hunter he mentions that we would be taking our cut, maybe this is the sticking point with SL?

Since inception deal was no central funding and we would cover the travel costs until in SL, seems that the SL want us to be there with no central funding and pay for everything and then prove that we're financially viable to cover costs that would easily bankrupt the richest SL clubs. I know that there were discussions regarding foregoing funding but us reaping any benefits from future contracts we come up with but I'm not sure that has been accepted by anyone.

Anyways since were talking rugby league we will likely never know the truth or at least not until halfway into next years playoffs.

[GUBRATS]

15 minutes ago, TboneFromTO said:

You'd prefer the possibility that those 5 teams take 5 SL places?

You have 3 NA teams , IMO 2 is the maximum we can accommodate for the foreseeable future 

[TboneFromTO]

11 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

You have 3 NA teams , IMO 2 is the maximum we can accommodate for the foreseeable future 

Right. So having them have a qualifier tournament between them would be good (ontop of league play)

[Man of Kent]

32 minutes ago, Krzzystuff said:

Since inception deal was no central funding and we would cover the travel costs until in SL, seems that the SL want us to be there with no central funding and pay for everything and then prove that we're financially viable to cover costs that would easily bankrupt the richest SL clubs. I know that there were discussions regarding foregoing funding but us reaping any benefits from future contracts we come up with but I'm not sure that has been accepted by anyone.

This is the crux of it.

Apart from novelty value, extra costs and more travel time, what would Toronto bring to Super League in return for their central funding with no TV deal and no domestic player development? 

[krakauer]

15 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

 

Apart from novelty value, extra costs and more travel time, what would Toronto bring to Super League in return for their central funding with no TV deal and no domestic player development? 

And here we go again

[ELBOWSEYE]

26 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

This is the crux of it.

Apart from novelty value, extra costs and more travel time, what would Toronto bring to Super League in return for their central funding with no TV deal and no domestic player development? 

So how would comment on Melbourne impact on the NRL, because they have had mega bucks thrown at them ,brought no tv deal with them ,took from the central pot, have no local developed players.  Some  posters are so negative and blinkered. 

[Krzzystuff]

37 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

This is the crux of it.

Apart from novelty value, extra costs and more travel time, what would Toronto bring to Super League in return for their central funding with no TV deal and no domestic player development? 

I'm sure all the media exposure that rugby league and specifically English rugby league has received over the past 3 years wasn't valuable and you guys totally had a plan for it anyway right? The fact we average more than half the SL teams in attendances, brig more of your own fans (but not away fans, sorry) to games vs. us and are the SOLE reason SKY are showing Championship games doesn't mean we've added anything to the game? You should just have a bottom feeder club who barely survives on the funding and  doesn't bring any away support, doesn't add anything to the  SKY deal and doesn't entice advertising revenue or appeal of the game take our place instead. That's some proper northern rugby eh?

 

[Man of Kent]

3 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

So how would comment on Melbourne impact on the NRL, because they have had mega bucks thrown at them ,brought no tv deal with them ,took from the central pot, have no local developed players.  Some  posters are so negative and blinkered. 

Melbourne do plenty for player development. Ask Gareth Widdop (!)

[Man of Kent]

17 minutes ago, Krzzystuff said:

I'm sure all the media exposure that rugby league and specifically English rugby league has received over the past 3 years wasn't valuable and you guys totally had a plan for it anyway right? The fact we average more than half the SL teams in attendances, brig more of your own fans (but not away fans, sorry) to games vs. us and are the SOLE reason SKY are showing Championship games doesn't mean we've added anything to the game? You should just have a bottom feeder club who barely survives on the funding and  doesn't bring any away support, doesn't add anything to the  SKY deal and doesn't entice advertising revenue or appeal of the game take our place instead. That's some proper northern rugby eh?

 

What has happened up to now is nice and all but it’s all been paid for by David Argyle, sometimes in full and on time.

If Toronto is saying they want now central funding then Super League will obviously want to ensure the other 11 clubs aren’t financially disadvantaged.

At the moment there is scant evidence Toronto will add anything other than more cost and less revenue for the other 11. 

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

This is the crux of it.

Apart from novelty value, extra costs and more travel time, what would Toronto bring to Super League in return for their central funding with no TV deal and no domestic player development? 

Can't really argue with your points , so in some respects , what value does the ' novelty ' have ?