Reports suggest Toronto Wolfpack not guaranteed SL place

[ojx]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/10024970/toronto-wolfpack-believe-they-will-be-eligible-for-super-league-this-week/

[TheReaper]

You should look at how many SL players overall came from each academy,  in terms of growing the pool it doesn't matter which team they end up on.

[TIWIT]

25 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

a whole bunch of stuff

I think by this time next week you'll either be dancing with joy and telling everyone "I told you so", or crying in your beer and feeling sorry for yourself.

Personally, I hope you've stocked up on beer.

[Loup]

Matthew Shaw is reporting that TWP will participate in next year's Challenge Cup after agreeing with the RFL to "special conditions" or in other words, a different kind of shakedown.

No bond this time, but TWP will forfeit any home advantage in the draws and take a hit on prize money and gate receipts.

Glad they are in, but it sucks that TWP fans wouldn't get to see any games in Toronto.

According to Shaw, Toulouse will not be participating.

[TIWIT]

Think this was one of the conditions for entry into SL?

[CanadianRugger]

Not having any games in Toronto is lame.  I don't think they should participate just because of that.

[TIWIT]

Probably wanted TWP to pay all the costs associated with coming over/staying here. TWP wouldn't, so no home games and reduced shares in the winnings.

I honestly don't know why they even bother with the CC. I can see how it means a lot to the heartland teams, but I could care less. IMHO, League competition should be what a team focuses on.

[CanadianRugger]

1 hour ago, TIWIT said:

Probably wanted TWP to pay all the costs associated with coming over/staying here. TWP wouldn't, so no home games and reduced shares in the winnings.

I honestly don't know why they even bother with the CC. I can see how it means a lot to the heartland teams, but I could care less. IMHO, League competition should be what a team focuses on.

Same here, I literally couldn't give a toss about it.

[Harry Stottle]

14 hours ago, Damien said:

Canadians like him should never have been allowed in the UK charts in the first place. What do they bring to the UK music industry anyway? Do they even contribute to the development of young UK artists?

Now we have artists from everywhere just coming here and going to No. 1. This has contributed to the decline of the music industry in this country, make no mistake about that. Just look how Rick Astley disappeared because of him. A young, vibrant artist from the heartlands of the music industry just completely sidelined and overlooked. It's just never been the same since.

Rick Astley, another Leigh lad - well almost, a few miles away, twixt between St Helens  Warrington and Leigh - you are correct, off with their heads! 

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Rick Astley, another Leigh lad - well almost, a few miles away, twixt between St Helens  Warrington and Leigh - you are correct, off with their heads! 

He was from Newton-le-willows wasn't he? Sort of no man's land!

[Dave T]

47 minutes ago, Damien said:

He was from Newton-le-willows wasn't he? Sort of no man's land!

Erm, excuse me. Apart from too many Saints fans it was a lovely little town to grow up in!

[Derwent]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Erm, excuse me. Apart from too many Saints fans it was a lovely little town to grow up in!

The Pied Bull is a decent boozer too.

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, Derwent said:

The Pied Bull is a decent boozer too.

yup, had a few little family gatherings in the restaurant in there. My mum still lives in Newton so visit a fair bit, they've done a decent job freshening the High Street up with bares and restaurants.

[Clogiron]

12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

yup, had a few little family gatherings in the restaurant in there. My mum still lives in Newton so visit a fair bit, they've done a decent job freshening the High Street up with bares and restaurants.

Is that nudes or grizzlys? either way sounds a winner

[Harry Stottle]

14 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Hi Harry

My points about player development is as relevant to Toronto as it is to Wakefield or to London or to Warrington imo. Parents and young people in the UK are just as concerned about safety as those in NA are. T'other code are looking into this and have adapted their game both at senior but particularly at various junior levels, annoying many purists including a lot of people I've worked with. Of course I'm not advocating pads and helmets, the evidence very much seems to indicate they increase the chances of injury anyhow, but an adapting of the rules of our game in so much that it can be played both at 100mph like the pros and socially by both youngsters and adults. Union, football and cricket are good at that - RL much less so. Masters is fair enough but I'd wager there are far more ex-RL players playing union in to their late 30s and 40s than playing Masters.

I also think with your 'organic' approach you're placing European standards of sporting growth onto a totally different world in sporting terms. There are countless examples in NA and similar sporting environments such as Australia, where culturally they adhere to a top down expansion approach. Their "organic" flows almost opposite to our traditional way. I say traditional as I think now with times changing the need for a "professional" locus of the game in a new area is even more important - see Newcastle or London for example.

Replicating the 19th and first half of the 20th century isn't going to happen so we need to deal with the here and now. For me that involves big clubs inspiring more youngsters across as wide an area as possible - the nature of the world today is that those teams don't have to be the one closest to you.

Edit: Schools are also going to be massively important here and abroad going forward. 

Tommy,

You ain't told me anything or suggested any alternative method of taking the game and 'expanding' and developing it to educate and convert those not already involved with it. 

Totally agree that it is as relevant to Toronto as anywhere else, and even if you employ the Top down approach you still need to cast the seeds, nurture and manage the crop to produce the required/best possible harvest, I explained the method I am familiar and worked with the course I term as the 'organic' method, so please advise me how results can be acheived from the introduction to identifying and producing the elite performers by a dfferent approach, we still have to identify those who stand out from the also rans and set them on a plan of action to acheive excellence by putting them through a series of progressive programmes where the cream rises to the top, you tell me there are "countless examples" of a different approach of how it is acheived in sports anywhere in the world, I honestly have not a clue, please share.

I have suggested in the past how a simple *rule change can make the game or Rugby League Football not only faster but possibly a 'safer' enviroment, albeit it would not affect the age groups as much as 'open age', for that I would change the compliance from age related to weight related up to say 14 years old.

Re your longevity in playing union, isnt it obvious that they adopt a social approch and do age related teams, the "Owd Un's", "Veteran's" and "Zimmer Walker's" spring to mind! I jest, good luck to them to playing at whatever age they can, but all RL leagues I know of (masters excluded) there is no concession given for age, if you take the field you have to prepared to take the knocks, but in fainess Tommy it is not this category we are talking about being those who already play the sport, I thought we were discussing taking the sport to those yet to be introduced/converted? 

Replicating the late 1800's and the first 50 or so years of the 1900's? What is all that about, a couple of selectors standing on a touchline at various venues till they identify 15 lads and and an extra sub, have a 2 hour training session then play the game, that was the chosen method of progressive excellence, please Tommy, you can come up with better than that!

Glad to see you agree with me with more involvement required by the big clubs and also the governing bodies, yes I did say locality but that was by way of possible demarcation areas if at all possible, but I doubt that would ever happen, but yes spread the wings as far as the span will let you, has Wigan did a few years ago https://www.wiganwarriors.com/news/2011-11-17-warriors-announce-partnership-with-wales-rl-and-scorpions 

It's good discussion Tommy, but as I said at the top you have given me some basics and nothing else, please convince me of the other ways the game can acheive 'expansion' in the true sense of partcipation levels.

*If you are interested to know my rule change I will inform you of it and explain the benefits of why we should employ it, just ask.

[Harry Stottle]

14 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Toronto finished top in the regular season so they should host the game

Bolux, tell me when that has happened before, we are playing to the exact same format as SL they play at a neutral venue, the league leaders are given the best possible opportunity to reach the final and rightly so they have earned it, but it is a final of great importance, and as such a neutral venue should have been chosen.

FWIW, I have strong feeings that after the 'Catalan' Wembley final the resulting attendance frightened the Rugby League and Ralphy Rimmer in particular to avoid complete embarrassment in the possibility and expected Toronto v Tolouse final at a neutral venue the 'New Innovative' play it at the home of highest placed team was invented. It is farcical to say the least.

[Harry Stottle]

13 hours ago, TboneFromTO said:

Toronto had produced players in every top tier of sport it competes in. Granted it took some years for some of them but it happens

I will stand corrected if wrong T Bone, but did these other and I should think you are suggesting those multi million dollar sports not already have a leg up being the games were already being played in schools, colleges, community clubs etc.

[TboneFromTO]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

I will stand corrected if wrong T Bone, but did these other and I should think you are suggesting those multi million dollar sports not already have a leg up being the games were already being played in schools, colleges, community clubs etc.

They did yes, but that's why it might take some time.  Those multi million sports also have a far deeper player pool though, which would have its own hurdles in creating top talent from an area.

I think it does balance out with the smaller player pool of RL, only time will tell!  I think we both agree that things should be moving a little more then they are though if we want to see a Canadian player playing on the rfl anytime soon.  I would say a league one player quality in the next 5 years would be possible if development starts to accelerate even just a little.  I would also count that as a huge success! 

People thinking that SL quality built that fast are delusional.  Those thinking Toronto can do it that fast, and those thinking they should/have to.

It's a shame Quinn left to start a career in aviation! His presence would have been a huge benefit to Canadian RL

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

I think there should be some effort towards junior development. 

The honest answer is what that is for Toronto i dont know. I'm not sure 1 club can sustain any real junior development and there is a limit to how much they could contribute to that other than creating interest and picking the best up as and when they appear. 

Picking up the best what Scotchy?

If Toronto by your admission can't sustain junior development where are they going to pick anyone up from, and if they could do how do they bring them up to speed with the game if there ain't anywhere for them to learn and hone their skills. 

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, The Parksider said:

 

Cue insults, daft childish comments etc in lieue of any adult replies,

but it really is time for all you North American expansion fanatics to explain how you expand a game by replacing English clubs who develop players as Superleague clubs,  for North American clubs who do not develop players? This isn't expansion it is the substitution of Clubs leading to contraction of player development.

Deal with it Gentlemen....

You won't get anything of any substance Parky, just look at who has placed the laughing Emoji to your correspondence they do it every time, they have nothing whatsoever constructive to debate in the Toronto discussion, a one finger press is about their limit.

[Kayakman]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

You won't get anything of any substance Parky, just look at who has placed the laughing Emoji to your correspondence they do it every time, they have nothing whatsoever constructive to debate in the Toronto discussion, a one finger press is about their limit.

$

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, TheReaper said:

You should look at how many SL players overall came from each academy,  in terms of growing the pool it doesn't matter which team they end up on.

You should go further back than that Reaper, you shoukd look at the towns where all those academy players originate from, they all ain't SL towns, volunteer's at community clubs took them on the path up to the point the SL incumbent's saw that they had been educted and stood out enough to entice them to their clubs.

[Kayakman]

6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

You should go further back than that Reaper, you shoukd look at the towns where all those academy players originate from, they all ain't SL towns, volunteer's at community clubs took them on the path up to the point the SL incumbent's saw that they had been educted and stood out enough to entice them to their clubs.

?

[Harry Stottle]

8 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

$

[dkw]

19 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

You won't get anything of any substance Parky, just look at who has placed the laughing Emoji to your correspondence they do it every time, they have nothing whatsoever constructive to debate in the Toronto discussion, a one finger press is about their limit.

You think his repeated trite rubbish is constructive debate ha ha....oh man that`s funny.