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Reports suggest Toronto Wolfpack not guaranteed SL place

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I wont automatically assume it it due to xenophobic backwards m62 clubs

But will you accept they may be self-serving, narrow minded and inward looking Chairmen?

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Just now, Scubby said:

It's not a new thing, they were in this position last year and had they won they game would already be in SL. Anyone can see what scenario would happen when Toronto went full time in League 1.

Dave , he's right , it isn't ' new ' , it's been going on for years , criteria set for  ' entry ' into SL but not applicable to those already in , a club relegated out , then criteria changed to allow them back in , ignoring stadium developments that exist over those on peices of paper 

 

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Dave , he's right , it isn't ' new ' , it's been going on for years , criteria set for  ' entry ' into SL but not applicable to those already in , a club relegated out , then criteria changed to allow them back in , ignoring stadium developments that exist over those on peices of paper 

 

Exactly, it is so shoddy and can impact on the enjoyment for fans - particularly for those clubs involved.

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4 minutes ago, SL17 said:

They ask for bonds when something can’t be initially met. If something has been proposed then the bond is the safeguard usually for the Club and it’s players.

I just thought and still do that asking for a £500,000 bond from the CC holders was setting a dangerous prececdent.

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7 minutes ago, Scubby said:

It's not a new thing, they were in this position last year and had they won they game would already be in SL. Anyone can see what scenario would happen when Toronto went full time in League 1.

So maybe the funding promises are not being delivered? Maybe due diligence is unearthing issues? 

Or maybe there is nowt in it and it was a 30 word article ticked away in a newspaper with no source or detail?

Maybe there was a condition that a tv deal would be signed, or that TWP would provide an airline, who knows, but we dont need to bash the game just yet.

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7 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Dave , he's right , it isn't ' new ' , it's been going on for years , criteria set for  ' entry ' into SL but not applicable to those already in , a club relegated out , then criteria changed to allow them back in , ignoring stadium developments that exist over those on peices of paper 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Exactly, it is so shoddy and can impact on the enjoyment for fans - particularly for those clubs involved.

Meh, they are all just stadium gripes.

Fans obsession with Wakey and Cas' grounds is the real boring thing here.

When you break it down it is silly. Some will claim bias against Leigh, but then ignore the fact that Salford and Wakey are clubs just like Leigh and hardky golden boys of SL. 

There are always claims it is all about the big teams but then Bradford were allowed to fade away. 

Sure, we have changed systems etc, but all of the game have been involved in that.

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15 minutes ago, Oxford said:

But will you accept they may be self-serving, narrow minded and inward looking Chairmen?

If the evidence shows that, of course. I have no reason to be loyal to these people.

But the sport over the last 30 years has demonstrated that it is prepared to gamble on expansion, our execution has been poor though.

If TWP are not allowed in I will be as annoyed and disappointed as anyone, but I would be interested in the reasons.

 

Edited by Dave T

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

 

Meh, they are all just stadium gripes.

Fans obsession with Wakey and Cas' grounds is the real boring thing here.

When you break it down it is silly. Some will claim bias against Leigh, but then ignore the fact that Salford and Wakey are clubs just like Leigh and hardky golden boys of SL. 

There are always claims it is all about the big teams but then Bradford were allowed to fade away. 

Sure, we have changed systems etc, but all of the game have been involved in that.

If you was going to introduce a new potential new sponsor to the game and they have never been to a ground to see a game what you take that potential sponsor to a game at Castleford or wakefield?

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2 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

If you was going to introduce a new potential new sponsor to the game and they have never been to a ground to see a game what you take that potential sponsor to a game at Castleford or wakefield?

No, I'd put my best slap on which would mean going to a top game at Headingly, HJ, Saints, Magic, or the GF. 

But I also wouldn't go down to Salford or Hudds, or Wigan on a Thursday.

We need to stop being so critical of ourselves.

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Let me be clear on my position here.

TWP bought into the UK pyramid by taking no central funding and covering the additional travel costs that come with an NA team.

If TWP are still offering that in SL, it is a no-brainer that they should be in. Without question, all the other detail around fixtures, quality of hotel etc can be worked through, none are show-stoppers.

Any deviation from that base position though needs negotiation. Personally I'd give them central funding as long as they cover costs and we all share any future NA tv deal as we currently do.

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22 minutes ago, Dave T said:

So maybe the funding promises are not being delivered? Maybe due diligence is unearthing issues? 

Or maybe there is nowt in it and it was a 30 word article ticked away in a newspaper with no source or detail?

Maybe there was a condition that a tv deal would be signed, or that TWP would provide an airline, who knows, but we dont need to bash the game just yet.

So do you suggest we kick the dog or have an unfounded, uninformed whinge on here? 😄 If not, what is this message board for? 🙂 

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5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

No, I'd put my best slap on which would mean going to a top game at Headingly, HJ, Saints, Magic, or the GF. 

But I also wouldn't go down to Salford or Hudds, or Wigan on a Thursday.

We need to stop being so critical of ourselves.

Which proves my point that us non Castleford,Wakefield fans, but  Rugby League fans wouild be too embarrassed to take a potential new sponsor to then decrepid grounds

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6 minutes ago, Scubby said:

So do you suggest we kick the dog or have an unfounded, uninformed whinge on here? 😄 If not, what is this message board for? 🙂 

I suppose you do make a good point :kolobok_biggrin:

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7 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

Which proves my point that us non Castleford,Wakefield fans, but  Rugby League fans wouild be too embarrassed to take a potential new sponsor to then decrepid grounds

We dont need to. It ain't a big deal. Poor facilities should hinder clubs and they struggle and find their level.

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30 minutes ago, Dave T said:

 

Meh, they are all just stadium gripes.

Fans obsession with Wakey and Cas' grounds is the real boring thing here.

When you break it down it is silly. Some will claim bias against Leigh, but then ignore the fact that Salford and Wakey are clubs just like Leigh and hardky golden boys of SL. 

There are always claims it is all about the big teams but then Bradford were allowed to fade away. 

Sure, we have changed systems etc, but all of the game have been involved in that.

So ' Cherry picking ' is OK then ? , It's all relevant , or it's not , wether it's a club spending £ 20 K to pass criteria , or a club finding the land and funding to get a £ 20 million facility built , it's just the same 

You mention the Bulls ? , Do you really want to go there ? , Eventually their position was untenable , but leading up to that all was clear and in the open ? 

Either apply rules and criteria or don't , if you don't then put it all out in the open 

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21 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I suppose you do make a good point :kolobok_biggrin:

Don't be agreeing with me on here you contrary ####### 😄 That's not your job!

Edited by Scubby
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46 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So ' Cherry picking ' is OK then ? , It's all relevant , or it's not , wether it's a club spending £ 20 K to pass criteria , or a club finding the land and funding to get a £ 20 million facility built , it's just the same 

You mention the Bulls ? , Do you really want to go there ? , Eventually their position was untenable , but leading up to that all was clear and in the open ? 

Either apply rules and criteria or don't , if you don't then put it all out in the open 

Obviously you know more about this than me mate, but I think people simplify the debate too often based on stadium, and ignore anything else.

People complain Dewsbury(?) Were knocked back but Wakey were allowed in, but they arent equal.

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Obviously you know more about this than me mate, but I think people simplify the debate too often based on stadium, and ignore anything else.

People complain Dewsbury(?) Were knocked back but Wakey were allowed in, but they arent equal.

Yet Wakefield were provisionally given permission to play at Dewsbury in SL a season or two back 😕 

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9 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Obviously you know more about this than me mate, but I think people simplify the debate too often based on stadium, and ignore anything else.

People complain Dewsbury(?) Were knocked back but Wakey were allowed in, but they arent equal.

I refer you to the post above  

If they aren't ' equal ' then say so , don't pretend the are 

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34 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Yet Wakefield were provisionally given permission to play at Dewsbury in SL a season or two back 😕 

Yes, because it ain't a stadium comp.

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On 12/09/2019 at 22:10, GUBRATS said:

So as I said , loads of experience with stadium development , but little with running the day to day and development of a club 

I'm sure he's a very clever bloke 

People who run/own successful and legitimate businesses/organisations don't necessarily need to know much if anything about another industry, RL in this scenario, he doesn't need to know about the actual day to day aspects of the rugby side of things, that's why you employ the right people who do.

Developing a club or more accurately the business is no different to developing any other, it's about getting the right structure/people, ensuring the environment is the best it can be, doing the right things to enable people to excel and to want to graft for you and be happy in their job no matter what their position (even if that means they move on because of you developing them). Investing in the now and the future of the business not just financially, getting others to invest, again that need not be financially to be a part of your 'club' that will enhance things are all aspects of running any business in any industry.

Basically the model for success is the same, most of it is about understanding and developing people, giving them the right tools/environ and motivating them to do their jobs to the best they can as often as they can. That applies to everyone, whether that be the person cleaning the toilets, your marquee player, your new academy lad, the rugby coach, anyone who works within and indeed anyone who contributes to your club.

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32 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yes, because it ain't a stadium comp.

But like it or not, it was the reason Dewsbury and Hunslet were denied entry to SL back in the late 1990s.

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2 hours ago, Dave T said:

Let me be clear on my position here.

TWP bought into the UK pyramid by taking no central funding and covering the additional travel costs that come with an NA team.

If TWP are still offering that in SL, it is a no-brainer that they should be in. Without question, all the other detail around fixtures, quality of hotel etc can be worked through, none are show-stoppers.

Any deviation from that base position though needs negotiation. Personally I'd give them central funding as long as they cover costs and we all share any future NA tv deal as we currently do.

But it was stated from the start that that situation wouldn't apply to an eventual promotion to Super League.  So it's been known for years it would need to be negotiated. Why hasn't that happened, or if it has, why hasn't it been made clear? 

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12 hours ago, The Parksider said:

Utter nonsense. What happened was TWP applied for the Championship, and got in because it made Wood look good just before his move to RLIF. If TWP wanted Superleague it was up to them to contact Lenegan and company and seek permission to work towards a Superleague place, and agree on what SL wanted them to do for it.

They didn't do that which was shameful. Instead they ignored SL, steamrollered the small clubs to get to the gates of Superleague knowing that would put pressure on Superleague to accept them. Imagine the bad publicity our game will get if SL turn down Toronto Wolfpack if they win the play off. It's a cheap trick...

 

TWP originally applied to join Super League. They were told, you have to start in League 1 and work your way up and you will get no central funding while you do this. Super League and the RFL have known from the start that Argyle's ambition was to play in Super League.

If Wolfpack have "steamrollered the small clubs", that's down to the RFL and Super League for the entry conditions they imposed on Toronto.

If Wolfpack win the playoffs and aren't admitted to SL, the bad publicity lands squarely on the shoulders of SL.

So much utter nonsense in two paragraphs.

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