Reports suggest Toronto Wolfpack not guaranteed SL place

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Krzzystuff said:

If its such a big deal why haven't they done anything about it in the past? It's the same SL chairman how many years now? If TWP wasn't in existence would this issue not be here? Safe to say we aren't the cause of it?

Are they called chairman because they don't get off their ***** and do anything? they are likely scared they will be forced into action once we're in SL and they don't want that, they like their comfy chairs

I don't disagree , they like everybody picks and chooses when things are important or not , is there fear of Toronto ? , Possibly 

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, Tre Cool said:

I'm pretty sure Melbourne Storm play Rugby League mate. And i don't think "SL bosses" give any about Canadian player development.

No idea what point you are trying to make , or if you are actually trying 

[Man of Kent]

11 minutes ago, Tre Cool said:

Rubbish. How many players have Melbourne produced? Should the NRL kick them out? What about all the English premier league teams rammed with players from all over the world? This is a massive opportunity and will inevitably lead to amateur clubs popping up in Canada but it's not TWPs responsibility and is not a stick to beat them with.

Melbourne run three feeder teams across two states (including Victoria) and an Academy, so it’s a poor comparison. Ignorant, I daresay.

Their development programme has produced any number of players who made their debut at Melbourne, several are on their current roster.

I’m not expecting that level of investment from TWP but players don’t grow on trees!

[Tre Cool]

4 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Melbourne run three feeder teams across two states (including Victoria) and an Academy, so it’s a poor comparison. Ignorant, I daresay.

Their development programme has produced any number of players who made their debut at Melbourne, several are on their current roster.

I’m not expecting that level of investment from TWP but players don’t grow on trees!

They "run" three feeder teams do they? These feeder teams wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Melbourne running them right? Or do Melbourne just have first dibs on the talent they produce? The two feeder clubs they have are based thousands of miles away and were formed entirely independently of the Storm.

[Tre Cool]

10 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

No idea what point you are trying to make , or if you are actually trying 

The point that successful elite sports clubs all over the world in RL and elsewhere do not develop their own players directly and don't need to.  It's not so difficult to understand.

[Chris22]

With Toronto, they have built from the top down rather than the bottom up. For any Canadian players to come through, it's probably going to take at least 10 years.

I seem to recall reading that Canadian sporting culture isn't as concerned about whether the players are from overseas or local. If they can offer value in a TV deal or big crowds after just a few years, then that's a brilliant start.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

Salford don’t have an academy but that’s fine, It’s nothing to do with player development, it’s to do with travel costs and the vultures spotting an opportunity to split the Sky money 11 ways instead of 12.

Super League clubs should be responsible for their own travel and accommodation. In all of the NRL, Super Rugby, Pro 12, NFL, NHL, NBA teams have to fly significant distances to play games. Does the home team cover the travel costs? No that would be ridiculous, the away side is responsible for their own travel.

It’s typical of our sports small time thinking that the thing holding back the expansion of the game is an annual 6 hour flight. Toronto just got over 9000 at their play off game a few days after Warrington only got 5000 and tinpot chairmen are looking at reasons to block them worrying about paying for 1 away game in Canada per year. 

David Argyle has invested over £10M in Toronto Wolfpack so far, but he’s been treated as some unwanted foreign invader, the Super League meetings must sound like the UKIP party conference and will certainly put off any other people considering investing serious money in the expansion of our game as David Argyle has.

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, Tre Cool said:

The point that successful elite sports clubs all over the world in RL and elsewhere do not develop their own players directly and don't need to.  It's not so difficult to understand.

But they either have masses of kids playing the game already or in their areas , we don't , it's not so difficult to understand 

[GUBRATS]

14 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

With Toronto, they have built from the top down rather than the bottom up. For any Canadian players to come through, it's probably going to take at least 10 years.

I seem to recall reading that Canadian sporting culture isn't as concerned about whether the players are from overseas or local. If they can offer value in a TV deal or big crowds after just a few years, then that's a brilliant start.

Irrelivant 

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Salford don’t have an academy but that’s fine, It’s nothing to do with player development, it’s to do with travel costs and the vultures spotting an opportunity to split the Sky money 11 ways instead of 12.

Super League clubs should be responsible for their own travel and accommodation. In all of the NRL, Super Rugby, Pro 12, NFL, NHL, NBA teams have to fly significant distances to play games. Does the home team cover the travel costs? No that would be ridiculous, the away side is responsible for their own travel.

It’s typical of our sports small time thinking that the thing holding back the expansion of the game is an annual 6 hour flight. Toronto just got over 9000 at their play off game a few days after Warrington only got 5000 and tinpot chairmen are looking at reasons to block them worrying about paying for 1 away game in Canada per year. 

David Argyle has invested over £10M in Toronto Wolfpack so far, but he’s been treated as some unwanted foreign invader, the Super League meetings must sound like the UKIP party conference and will certainly put off any other people considering investing serious money in the expansion of our game as David Argyle has.

I don't disagree with any of this post 

[Themusician_2]

23 hours ago, Jean de Bordeaux said:

Toulouse, capital city of french rugby, with a very well structured club at all levels for men and women, and now the  20 000 seats RU stadium open to RL , would be a far better choice for SuperLeague, allowing french development, interest of the media, french derby, better french national team, and normal operation for the competition with regular home and away games.

Agreed most people in Toulouse aren't even aware of olympiques existence they need to be in the top flight for people to notice them like what happened with the dragons in perpignan.

[Tre Cool]

3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

But they either have masses of kids playing the game already in their areas , we don't , it's not so difficult to understand 

Do they? All successful pro sports clubs have masses of kids playing the game already in their area?  Complete horse poo.  You just hate Toronto and this is the only stick you have to beat them with. It's pathetic. 

[GUBRATS]

If the world was awash with junior RL clubs littered all over the world ( or even all over the UK ) then the issue of the player pool wouldn't exist , but we don't , do it does , those that dismiss it are behaving in exactly the same way as those who dismiss the fact that Toronto get exceptional attendances for a 3 year old club 

You cannot argue for just one of these facts but not the other , so simple common sense needs applying on both sides of the argument 

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, Themusician_2 said:

Agreed most people in Toulouse aren't even aware of olympiques existence they need to be in the top flight for people to notice them like what happened with the dragons in perpignan.

That is what I've found on both my visits to Toulouse , Olympics profile is very low within the city 

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, Tre Cool said:

Do they? All successful pro sports clubs have masses of kids playing the game already in their area?  Complete horse poo.  You just hate Toronto and this is the only stick you have to beat them with. It's pathetic. 

I missed out an ' or ' in the middle , how many kids are there in Canada playing ice hockey every year ?

[Tre Cool]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

I missed out an ' or ' in the middle , how many kids are there in Canada playing ice hockey every year ?

What?!

[Damien]

If player development is such a concern then let's use the £1.8 million that the clubs don't want to give Toronto for player development. That could pay for around 80 development officers.

[Big Picture]

12 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

But they either have masses of kids playing the game already in their areas , we don't , it's not so difficult to understand 

So how else are you going to get masses of kids playing the game without the likes of Toronto coming in, raising the game's profile and thus making more kids want to play it????

[Chris22]

13 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Irrelivant 

Which part?

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Tre Cool said:

What?!

Reread my edited post , if you want a reasoned debate , you say I have Toronto ? , Seriously , when on numerous occasions I have suggested a way they could play their fixtures in SL in a fair and workable way , and indeed suggested that a 14 team SL with 2 NA and 2 French clubs could have some merit in the short term while various issues are solved 

Reply to the post , not the poster 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

If player development is such a concern then let's use the £1.8 million that the clubs don't want to give Toronto for player development. That could pay for around 80 development officers.

Indeed it could 

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

So how else are you going to get masses of kids playing the game without the likes of Toronto coming in, raising the game's profile and thus making more kids want to play it????

Indeed , which is why I suggested that no matter what Toronto have promised in the past ( yes it was Perez who spoke the words , but it was on Toronto's behalf , so it was their promise ,) they need targets to be set for potential grass roots development in conjunction with RL Canada 

[GUBRATS]

6 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

Which part?

All of it 

[Tre Cool]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Reread my edited post , if you want a reasoned debate , you say I have Toronto ? , Seriously , when on numerous occasions I have suggested a way they could play their fixtures in SL in a fair and workable way , and indeed suggested that a 14 team SL with 2 NA and 2 French clubs could have some merit in the short term while various issues are solved 

Reply to the post , not the poster 

I have no idea what you're talking about. Gaslighting rather than debating. Do you agree successful elite sports clubs can offer added value to a league without directly producing players through their own system? Yes or no? I mean the NHL think Las Vegas can. The NRL think Melbourne can. Or is the cash rich Super League ok to be more picky about which mega rich big city well supported new club joins them?

[TboneFromTO]

56 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Look , this constant comparison to Football,Ice Hockey and numerous other sports with regards teams having fully bought in or non national squads us irrelivant , there are much bigger player pools available to these sports , RL doesn't have these huge numbers 

This is why it is such a big deal to the SL bosses 

 

No, I think it's more culturally ignorant.  Again Canadians don't care where players come from.  The comparisms are an illustration of every professional sport in the city.  if they are happy to come play, Canadians are happy to cheer them on.  Player pool size doesn't matter in that regard to the Canadian rugby watching public.  The great thing about a new audience is the idea of skill in a sport is learned over time.  If the best they see is league one standard, that's what they will consider good.

I think looking at the culture of the city would be better then basing assumptions off of northern English culture would be a good place to start.  Life's different in Canada.  As the old saying goes "if you build it they will come"