Reports suggest Toronto Wolfpack not guaranteed SL place

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, Kayakman said:

I have no doubt in my mind that Toronto will be running an academy in some form within 5 years of being promoted to SL.

But that isn't necessarily the answer , community clubs and schools/colleges are probably more important 

[Mister Ting]

5 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

But that isn't necessarily the answer , community clubs and schools/colleges are probably more important 

They are more important and something that 'established clubs' have only recently taken notice of.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Mister Ting said:

They are more important and something that 'established clubs' have only recently taken notice of.

Completely agree

[bobbruce]

23 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

But do the areas those clubs are based in play and provide  RL players ?

Yes but none of the SL clubs set up the amateur game. 

[GUBRATS]

25 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Yes but none of the SL clubs set up the amateur game. 

No they didn't , but if we are saying we have to do things exactly the way they ' happened ' 120 years ago we truly are stuffed , as I've put , " in collaboration with RL Canada " using Toronto's declared high profile within Ontario to get the game ( RL ) not RU played in schools/higher education and hopefully some community clubs ( in time ) otherwise what actual use IS Toronto Wolfpack's high profile ?

 

[bobbruce]

7 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

No they didn't , but if we are saying we have to do things exactly the way they ' happened ' 120 years ago we truly are stuffed , as I've put , " in collaboration with RL Canada " using Toronto's declared high profile within Ontario to get the game ( RL ) not RU played in schools/higher education and hopefully some community clubs ( in time ) otherwise what actual use IS Toronto Wolfpack's high profile ?

 

The same as Wigan and Saints high profile in their area. It gets people interested in the game it’s for other people ( individuals starting clubs or CRL to provide teams/ clubs for them to play in. Sure TWP can assist were they can but it certainly isn’t down to them. In the same way you wouldn’t expect TWP to start producing referees. 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

The same as Wigan and Saints high profile in their area. It gets people interested in the game it’s for other people ( individuals starting clubs or CRL to provide teams/ clubs for them to play in. Sure TWP can assist were they can but it certainly isn’t down to them. In the same way you wouldn’t expect TWP to start producing referees. 

Then we disagree 

Let's not forget , most of our current top 20/30 clubs were originally amateur , so what do you suggest , we do it that way , TWP become an amateur community club playing in Ontario ? , They can play Union against the other clubs until somebody else wants to change to RL , that's how we did it , is that what you are suggesting ?

[Tommygilf]

11 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Then we disagree 

Let's not forget , most of our current top 20/30 clubs were originally amateur , so what do you suggest , we do it that way , TWP become an amateur community club playing in Ontario ? , They can play Union against the other clubs until somebody else wants to change to RL , that's how we did it , is that what you are suggesting ?

I get what you're saying here Gubrats but the whole basis of the games founding was to be Professional NOT amateur. Granted whilst as RU clubs they will have been amateur but this is 1860s onwards

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I get what you're saying here Gubrats but the whole basis of the games founding was to be Professional NOT amateur. Granted whilst as RU clubs they will have been amateur but this is 1860s onwards

Yes it was , but we are in a different situation now 120 years later , so we need to do things differently , many are suggesting that Toronto must run an academy to play in SL ? , What complete nonsense , that isn't what we need , what we need is kids playing RL everywhere we want the game to expand to , so do we want it to ' expand ' to Canada ? If so we need kids to play the game no matter how we achieve it 

[fighting irish]

On 29/09/2019 at 20:29, 9' oller said:

How funny if the millions spaffed on Canadian wannabes come to nothing in 6 days time.

Ok fev are the king of poaching others clubs talent and dual reg masters "44 players used this season" but looking good. York Leigh now Toulouse pushed aside in gay abandon.

Cracking final but mpg should be a neutral ground in u.k

Do you really think it's funny?

[fighting irish]

On 29/09/2019 at 22:29, GUBRATS said:

But do the areas those clubs are based in play and provide  RL players ?

Yes they do but are the numbers growing or declining?

 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Yes they do but are the numbers growing or declining?

 

I'm told they are declining , and ?

[fighting irish]

26 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I'm told they are declining , and ?

If we are to avoid the catastrophe which is the inevitable consequence of Parkys master plan (doing nothing) we need to acknowledge it as a major problem and do something to reverse the trend. Newcastle track the numbers of players, teams and clubs year on year and are actively working to increase those numbers each season. 

 

[Marty Funkhouser]

Mr McDermott not a big fan of Mr Elstone it seems...https://t.co/6BEflw07DW?amp=1

[The Parksider]

21 hours ago, TIWIT said:

I think by this time next week you'll either be dancing with joy and telling everyone "I told you so", or crying in your beer and feeling sorry for yourself.

TWP very likely will be promoted. I think it’s evident that in the end Toulouse whom SL wanted didn’t have the money, hence the SL’s about face, which also saves on the bad publicity of people (wrongly) condemning SL for being parochial if they dumP TWP.

What I have “told you so” has always been that a Transatlantic League will kill the game here. My point has always been NA clubs coming into SL will push clubs here out destroying their capacity to develop players, whilst the NA clubs won't be replacing it with player development there, for what people agree will be at least 10-15 years. That is an argument “I told you so” and in the end the majority of people accepted. 1-0 to me.

TWP going into Superleague isn’t some sort of final victory, there is in our three years “debate” (I use that lightly – more like you guys avoiding the truth) the second argument about NATV money. You guys have also ducked this as well, but TWP said it would come, and it hasn’t so far. Until it does I win 2-0.

However we are all RL fans we just support different clubs, we each have our “Heroes” and each have our “Villains” but it’s just a game and as such if you lads get your wishes then good luck to you and enjoy. We will see just how glamorous and attractive TWP are, and how they will conquer all as the following seasons unfold developing Canadian SL players and getting NATV deals. Come back to me when you have found those players and TV deals promised. Until then you’ll be worthless to SL beyond a makeweight, which is why you don’t get a share of the TV money.

10 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

I didn’t place a laughing Emoji for 2 reasons.  One, it is purile and, two, because I know I will not get anything of substance from Parksider.

Over the years Parksider has continually asked those who support Toronto’s inclusion to ‘state the benefit that Toronto will bring to SL’.  Well as you say in your above post it is literally a ‘suck it and see’ as none of us can predict if Toronto will be a success or failure.  

But, I and many others, have frequently asked Parksider as to how does he see SL flourishing if the game does not embrace clubs like Toronto and heaven forbid retracts to a 10 team league which he is fond of quoting.  He has never provided an answer so that is why IMHO there is nothing of substance in his posts.

 

[GUBRATS]

10 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Is that something Toronto can do? Or should do?

What about if ottowa get to SL aswell does that responsibility get split?

No clubs in the uk take control of amateur and youth RL, for good reason.

If we are talking about directing Toronto's SL funding to the CRL to fund development officers etc in canada, I'd listen. 

Can they ? , I'd suggest they could certainly help 

Should they ? , If they want to score browny points with the powers that be ? , 

No they don't , although some do have influence , most probably should help more 

Certainly a better usage than dividing it among the other 11 , providing that the RFL and SL have actually a plan with regards Canadian expansion 

[Kayakman]

9 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

TWP very likely will be promoted. I think it’s evident that in the end Toulouse whom SL wanted didn’t have the money, hence the SL’s about face, which also saves on the bad publicity of people (wrongly) condemning SL for being parochial if they dumP TWP.

What I have “told you so” has always been that a Transatlantic League will kill the game here. My point has always been NA clubs coming into SL will push clubs here out destroying their capacity to develop players, whilst the NA clubs won't be replacing it with player development there, for what people agree will be at least 10-15 years. That is an argument “I told you so” and in the end the majority of people accepted. 1-0 to me.

TWP going into Superleague isn’t some sort of final victory, there is in our three years “debate” (I use that lightly – more like you guys avoiding the truth) the second argument about NATV money. You guys have also ducked this as well, but TWP said it would come, and it hasn’t so far. Until it does I win 2-0.

However we are all RL fans we just support different clubs, we each have our “Heroes” and each have our “Villains” but it’s just a game and as such if you lads get your wishes then good luck to you and enjoy. We will see just how glamorous and attractive TWP are, and how they will conquer all as the following seasons unfold developing Canadian SL players and getting NATV deals. Come back to me when you have found those players and TV deals promised. Until then you’ll be worthless to SL beyond a makeweight, which is why you don’t get a share of the TV money.

 

Sounds like you have finally thrown in the towel Parky; even before one of the grand old clubs called Featherstone gets their say in the matter.

I must say that I am deeply disappointed that you are such a poor sport and loser (your post is sad): I thought that in the end, if you lost, you would Man up...I see I was clearly mistaken.

[Robthegasman]

Not a TWP fan nor am I Fev or London fan.

But something tells me that this one is going to be decided in a Courtroom not on the field of play.

This could get very messy.

[Omott91]

14 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

You won't get anything of any substance Parky, just look at who has placed the laughing Emoji to your correspondence they do it every time, they have nothing whatsoever constructive to debate in the Toronto discussion, a one finger press is about their limit.

Not sure if you've read this forum over the last few years but if you have you would have seen that many have including myself have debated and disputed Parky's opinions only to be ignored. You would agree that the purpose of debate is to listen to other ideas and viewpoints, not belittle them at every chance. Something that he has shown over many years he doesn't have the capability to do. Increasingly people have noticed this and stop engaging, only bothering now with emoji's.

It has absolutely nothing to do with not having anything constructive to add.       

[Omott91]

47 minutes ago, SL17 said:

It must be constructive in order for you to reply. At present TWP are out still out on a wing and prayer. Unless you can add to that. 

It's probably how nonconstructive the posts are that causes the replies.

If that's what you think of Twp, you must really think that some current super league clubs are basket cases then, surely?

[The Parksider]

On 30/09/2019 at 01:47, TIWIT said:

 

TWP were to bring NATV riches and new quality NA players - that's the  two things the club's spokesman offered the game here, that was the deal and nothing has been delivered, not one player, not one TV dollar and three years of apologists posting daily everything they can think of that is anything but these two home truths changes nothing

[CanadianRugger]

2 hours ago, Omott91 said:

Not sure if you've read this forum over the last few years but if you have you would have seen that many have including myself have debated and disputed Parky's opinions only to be ignored. You would agree that the purpose of debate is to listen to other ideas and viewpoints, not belittle them at every chance. Something that he has shown over many years he doesn't have the capability to do. Increasingly people have noticed this and stop engaging, only bothering now with emoji's.

It has absolutely nothing to do with not having anything constructive to add.       

I am the same, tried talking with @The Parksider but he would never answer any retorts.  He has been on my ignore list since the end of last season.  A few more got placed there the other day.  Really improves the forum experience

[The Future is League]

2 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

I am the same, tried talking with @The Parksider but he would never answer any retorts.  He has been on my ignore list since the end of last season.  A few more got placed there the other day.  Really improves the forum experience

Parky is  fervent traditionalist who walks his Whippet along side the M.62

[RP London]

I think its fair to say we all agree that TWP could be doing more for junior development, I think we also all agree that CRL could be doing more for junior development. 

Can we also all agree that this is going to be a damn site easier to do whilst in Super League?

If we can then i think the main thrust of the argument is over... they haven't done what they promised on this front and have found it tough. After being involved in grass roots in London they have my sympathy on that front massively. When Development Officers existed we were really booming, when they went and it was purely on volunteers who lived an hour away from the club (as you do in London) and had jobs sometimes further away (I did at least) this becomes very very difficult. MOST of the M62 teams find that a little easier but its hard everywhere (hence declining numbers). 

Theres loads of "it should work this way" and "it should work that way" but in truth none of us know. Each area is different (especially each expansion area). Each country is different and each club is different. What works at one wont necessarily work at another, what doesnt work at one may well work at another. We are all being armchair experts but we dont even know what is being said behind the closed doors at the RFL of what is being done or isnt being done or is being promised or isnt being promised. 

The key is that all areas need to be able to contribute, expecting them to do this lower down the leagues and within 3 years of being formed is utter madness. Holding them to different standards on this is unfair but yes some form of "we will look to invest in the junior/amateur game within the next x years etc" should be looked at as it should for all teams. 

but seriously anyone would think junior and amateur development was easy and that they just arent being arsed when you look at some of what is being said.

[Gooleboy]

5 hours ago, Robthegasman said:

Not a TWP fan nor am I Fev or London fan.

But something tells me that this one is going to be decided in a Courtroom not on the field of play.

This could get very messy.

The Supreme Court could be in action again!