Reports suggest Toronto Wolfpack not guaranteed SL place

[Canis Lupus]

1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

 

McDermott has his work cut out imo.  Sone of those players will not cut it and to create depth will becone reserves without a competition to keep match fit - unless they find a team for that, which is highly doubtful.

No doubt it will be difficult . I have no rose coloured glasses when it comes to the quality of current players at TWP and their status in the squad next year. The crux of the matter is how many quality players can be brought in and who will be happy as a squad players rather than a starter. There will have to be some creative recruitment in the close season also.

[Dave T]

35 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

It may sit OK with you David, but in a league were points make prizes or lack of them could result in relegation some clubs may have an issue with it, and in my opinion rightly so.

Maybe, but we have done it many times over the years - London, Paris, Gateshead etc have exceeded the normal cap in P&R leagues. The game has generally accepted that it is harder for these clubs and if we want them to succeed we may need to make concessions.

[Lowdesert]

24 minutes ago, Loup said:

If TWP win the playoffs and are accepted into SL, why can't SL arrange travel sponsorship instead of leaving the burden with the Wolfpack? If individual clubs demand bigger seats and fancy hotel rooms, put in place an arrangement covering all SL teams so they all get the same facilities. Lord knows how much time Wolfpack management have spent dealing with every complaint and niggle from visiting clubs over the last 3 seasons - all the way down to whingeing about packed lunches and the kind of sausage they were served for breakfast.

I think agreeing a service level agreement is not being unreasonable at all.  Any extra/overs should be footed by the visiting club.

 

[Man of Kent]

17 minutes ago, SL17 said:

There was always going to be a point where TWP would meet SL. How TWP deal with it, is their concern. This is SL you are dealing with now. Not the RFL.

'Tis. They aren't in Kansas anymore.

[Lowdesert]

2 minutes ago, Canis Lupus said:

No doubt it will be difficult . I have no rose coloured glasses when it comes to the quality of current players at TWP and their status in the squad next year. The crux of the matter is how many quality players can be brought in and who will be happy as a squad players rather than a starter. There will have to be some creative recruitment in the close season also.

The issue will be how many players they are prepared to carry and how many they are going to loan or DR as 'reserves' to be called on.  I think if they do get promoted, it will be very interesting how that is handled.  

I think TWPs approach will be different to if a UK or French club win promotion.

[Canis Lupus]

1 minute ago, Lowdesert said:

The issue will be how many players they are prepared to carry and how many they are going to loan or DR as 'reserves' to be called on.  I think if they do get promoted, it will be very interesting how that is handled.  

I think TWPs approach will be different to if a UK or French club win promotion.

For sure it will have to be different . With the cuts made towards the end of the season I am not sure how many players there would be for DR or loan. The majority of clubs can be more selective on new recruits whereas TWP need a big influx of players which will cost . As Dave T said there will need to be concessions made otherwise they will be fighting with one hand tied behind their back.

[Kayakman]

4 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

'Tis. They aren't in Kansas anymore.

Ha...ha...Ha...ha....!!!!

You still don't get it do you...after all this time...you still don't get it.

SL needs to get ready for the Wolfpack, its not the the way around like 99.9% of the posters on here believe.  

Sit back and watch how it is done my English friends....the levers will be pulled...the calls made...some of the favours owed  called in...

Enjoy the show compliments of the Toronto Wolfpack.

[Man of Kent]

The whole thing is a bit barmy, isn't it?

My bet is they let them in, they let them fail, they let them be added to the list of unicorns.

[Eddie]

12 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

The whole thing is a bit barmy, isn't it?

My bet is they let them in, they let them fail, they let them be added to the list of unicorns.

Why do you think they’ll fail?

[Canis Lupus]

Wishful thinking

[Padge]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Why do you think they’ll fail?

It's his default setting. 

[Man of Kent]

15 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Why do you think they’ll fail?

Just find it hard to see how Toronto can (A) be successful on the pitch and (B) turn a profit.

To get this far has required very deep pockets and their costs are only going to increase. 

At some point the investors will want a return. Argyle & co. may well sell to recoup their losses but is this actually a viable venture? 

Some will say this is the start of some big North American journey to be funded by big TV bucks but the evidence for that is at best inconclusive.

In terms of NA expansion, the Sky is the limit... 

[binosh]

From what I understand the Air-Transat sponsorship was a contra deal, i.e free flights for their logo on merchandise and no money actually changed hands, that deal has ended and will not be renewed.

The RFL want confirmation of financial planning & budgeting for next year including assurances on SL team travel, stadium and fixture setting before granting a SL place if secured.

Due diligence & RFL don't usually go hand in hand.

[Man of Kent]

3 minutes ago, binosh said:

From what I understand the Air-Transat sponsorship was a contra deal, i.e free flights for their logo on merchandise and no money actually changed hands, that deal has ended and will not be renewed.

The RFL want confirmation of financial planning & budgeting for next year including assurances on SL team travel, stadium and fixture setting before granting a SL place if secured.

Due diligence & RFL don't usually go hand in hand.

Is that public knowledge?

[Loup]

2 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Just find it hard to see how Toronto can (A) be successful on the pitch and (B) turn a profit.

To get this far has required very deep pockets and their costs are only going to increase. 

At some point the investors will want a return. Argyle & co. may well sell to recoup their losses but is this actually a viable venture?

Nothing to see here. Could be said about any three-year-old business, in any field, at any time ever.

3 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Some will say this is the start of some big North American journey to be funded by big TV bucks but the evidence for that is at best inconclusive.

This forum features many self-defeating circular arguments. Wolfpack will be better able to land big bucks when/if they win the playoffs and join Super League. If Elstone et al have any business and marketing strategy, they will understand that. Keeping Wolfpack out of Super League because they haven't yet cured cancer would show a very timid organization lacking any vision or plan.

Within a couple of seasons, there could be two or three North American teams building momentum for bigger and better sponsorship and tv deals. Or it could all fail, in which case you can say, we told you so, and the sport can revert to type.

[Eddie]

27 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Just find it hard to see how Toronto can (A) be successful on the pitch and (B) turn a profit.

To get this far has required very deep pockets and their costs are only going to increase. 

At some point the investors will want a return. Argyle & co. may well sell to recoup their losses but is this actually a viable venture? 

Some will say this is the start of some big North American journey to be funded by big TV bucks but the evidence for that is at best inconclusive.

In terms of NA expansion, the Sky is the limit... 

Is it fair to say you actively want them to fail though?

[Loup]

18 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Is that public knowledge?

That the Air Transat deal is ending, yes, it's public and not a new announcement.

As I said upthread, and can't be bothered to retype, Air Transat is in the process of being acquired by Air Canada - a much larger airline. More aircraft, more capacity, business class seats for Gareth Widdop. A new travel deal has to be negotiated anyway, but the scope will also depend on whether or not Wolfpack get promoted/admitted to Super League and a projection of away fan visits. It's possible AC will leave AT alone at first, to run their own operations, but who knows in the longer term.

Other airlines service the Toronto-Manchester route but most include a stop-over.

[Man of Kent]

3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Is it fair to say you actively want them to fail though?

Healthy scepticism, sir.

If we're going to have a Canadian club in Super League, which has been described by Robert Elstone himself as "random", then I want it to the best interests of British rugby league, not just the owners & fans of Toronto Wolfpack. I'm not certain it is. 

[Man of Kent]

3 minutes ago, Loup said:

That the Air Transat deal is ending, yes, it's public and not a new announcement.

As I said upthread, and can't be bothered to retype, Air Transat is in the process of being acquired by Air Canada - a much larger airline. More aircraft, more capacity, business class seats for Gareth Widdop. A new travel deal has to be negotiated anyway, but the scope will also depend on whether or not Wolfpack get promoted/admitted to Super League and a projection of away fan visits. It's possible AC will leave AT alone at first, to run their own operations, but who knows in the longer term.

Other airlines service the Toronto-Manchester route but most include a stop-over.

So at present there is no deal for next season. Ta.

[matt newsholme]

38 minutes ago, binosh said:

From what I understand the Air-Transat sponsorship was a contra deal, i.e free flights for their logo on merchandise and no money actually changed hands, that deal has ended and will not be renewed.

The RFL want confirmation of financial planning & budgeting for next year including assurances on SL team travel, stadium and fixture setting before granting a SL place if secured.

Due diligence & RFL don't usually go hand in hand.

 

 

Shame its nothing to do with RFL, and its the SL that have power to accept or reject Toronto then.

[Loup]

20 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

So at present there is no deal for next season. Ta.

 

16 minutes ago, SL17 said:

It can't be assisting negotiations, thats for sure. 

No doubt this has occurred to management. Hopefully Elstone at al have also clocked this. I'd hazard a guess conversations are underway. New airline sponsorship would presumably be part and parcel of the negotiations.

*Goes to drown self in a vat of industrial-strength negativity*

[Eddie]

43 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Healthy scepticism, sir.

If we're going to have a Canadian club in Super League, which has been described by Robert Elstone himself as "random", then I want it to the best interests of British rugby league, not just the owners & fans of Toronto Wolfpack. I'm not certain it is. 

If SL didn’t like the idea they should have said three years ago, instead of shamelessly wasting a lot of people's time and money. I get the impression they have no idea what they want though, and are completely rudderless.

They really should know now if toronto will be allowed in or not if they win the GF, because if they’re not going to be Toronto deserve to know as they might not want to waste any more money seeing out the season.  I can’t imagine this pathetic scenario in any other professionally run sport, it’s quite embarrassing.

 

[CanadianRugger]

I'm just enjoying the ride.  If it ends, oh well.  MLR is building momentum here anyways and I'm certain will build more interest after the rapidly approaching RWC.  

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

If SL didn’t like the idea they should have said three years ago, instead of shamelessly wasting a lot of people's time and money. I get the impression they have no idea what they want though, and are completely rudderless. 

It's like when Scotchy on here asks the Championship clubs " What are they willing to change to get what they want ( TV revenue ) " 

What and how do the SL bosses want and see SL to look like ? , and what are they willing to put up with to achieve it ?

 

[Man of Kent]

10 minutes ago, Eddie said:

If SL didn’t like the idea they should have said three years ago, instead of shamelessly wasting a lot of people's time and money. I get the impression they have no idea what they want though, and are completely rudderless.

They really should know now if toronto will be allowed in or not if they win the GF, because if they’re not going to be Toronto deserve to know as they might not want to waste any more money seeing out the season.  I can’t imagine this pathetic scenario in any other professionally run sport, it’s quite embarrassing.

 

Yeah I think that's probably right, so we come back to the newspaper story that prompted this thread.

I imagine Toronto will be admitted to suck it and see, with safeguards against any potential financial losses if they don't pay their bills again and stuffs.