Private Equity

[iangidds]

5 hours ago, Damien said:

Course they would lower in standard and clubs would undoubtedly die. RU and Cricket would struggle badly, they already have the finance guys you refer to.

Football is the only sport that could go it alone but even in that sport it would dramatically change the landscape and clubs would not be competitive in Europe etc. The smaller clubs would struggle badly to survive even domestically and would have to cut costs accordingly. In the 2017/2018 season the Premier League clubs shared £2.42 Billion in TV money, its absolute madness to think losing that would have no effect.

Ok the thing is there would also be other companies wishing to pay near or similar broadcast deals for football , RU and Cricket ; no one gives a flying one about RL in the northern hemisphere; if it disappeared tomorrow hardly anyone in the uk would even realise! The game has fallen that far down the pecking order in the British sporty public it’s not funny . 

[The Future is League]

Interesting read

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/10574736/super-league-private-equity-deal-in-very-early-stages-and-may-not-happen/

[Yakstorm]

5 hours ago, iangidds said:

Ok the thing is there would also be other companies wishing to pay near or similar broadcast deals for football , RU and Cricket ; no one gives a flying one about RL in the northern hemisphere; if it disappeared tomorrow hardly anyone in the uk would even realise! The game has fallen that far down the pecking order in the British sporty public it’s not funny . 

If Rugby League really is as unpopular as you state in the UK, why would the likes of Sky paid as much as they did last deal? Or BBC pay to take the World Cup and the recent Lions Tour? Or would Betfred pay significantly more for naming rights in their renewal?

There is clearly a value associated with the sport in terms of subscribers at least, which any other subscription provider will seriously consider.  Even if there is a drop in value, we're not suddenly going to drop to zero.

As for the PE options, it's good to see the game at least looking into this. A sudden cash injection could significantly help the code boost its profile whilst also minimising the risk with the next TV deal.

For me if SL did suddenly get a multi-million dollar cash injection, I would propose that the monies be held centrally and clubs need to put forward business cases and apply for grants.  Just letting the clubs pay off existing debts and put it into overpriced marquees won't help the code long term, they need to invest in their brand, their venues and their off-field staff so much more.

[aj1908]

Private equity would be a bad idea imo.  i think its a bad idea for union too, and im happy they did it tbh

[DoubleD]

8 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Interesting read

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/10574736/super-league-private-equity-deal-in-very-early-stages-and-may-not-happen/

A sensible approach 

[iangidds]

3 hours ago, Yakstorm said:

If Rugby League really is as unpopular as you state in the UK, why would the likes of Sky paid as much as they did last deal? Or BBC pay to take the World Cup and the recent Lions Tour? Or would Betfred pay significantly more for naming rights in their renewal?

There is clearly a value associated with the sport in terms of subscribers at least, which any other subscription provider will seriously consider.  Even if there is a drop in value, we're not suddenly going to drop to zero.

As for the PE options, it's good to see the game at least looking into this. A sudden cash injection could significantly help the code boost its profile whilst also minimising the risk with the next TV deal.

For me if SL did suddenly get a multi-million dollar cash injection, I would propose that the monies be held centrally and clubs need to put forward business cases and apply for grants.  Just letting the clubs pay off existing debts and put it into overpriced marquees won't help the code long term, they need to invest in their brand, their venues and their off-field staff so much more.

The tv broadcast scene is changing fast , Rugby Leagues last deal was a number of years ago and the game has continued its slide;maybe Elstone has arrested that , I think we will find out soon. If the Tv comes in 50% down that would be pretty catastrophic for a game that needs serious cash to become relevant once again.

one big problem I feel about Rugby League supporters is that they don’t appear to have a bigger perspective of the situation, immersing yourself in RL can fool you into thinking  large amounts of others care and history clearly shows they don’t.

[iangidds]

3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

It should be invested almost entirely in facilities.

If the game sold say 25% for £200m like Premiership Rugby you could build 3 or 4 stadiums, get seed money for others, when that money starts coming back in you can start to look at a national rugby league stadium (Or as Ive said previously, ideally a shared one with LUFC, we dont have enough events to make a big one pay on our own), you can use it to set up an on-line option whatever format that takes, start up funds for a 9s series. Almost all of it should be spent on physical and intellectual property

No one will pay a deal like RU got, so what you are writing is irrelevant 

[Damien]

9 hours ago, iangidds said:

Ok the thing is there would also be other companies wishing to pay near or similar broadcast deals for football , RU and Cricket ; no one gives a flying one about RL in the northern hemisphere; if it disappeared tomorrow hardly anyone in the uk would even realise! The game has fallen that far down the pecking order in the British sporty public it’s not funny . 

It's amazing that Sky pay Super League £40 million a year for the rights then. I didn't realise they were a charity doing that out of the goodness of their heart.

[Saint Toppy]

On ‎12‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 22:30, GUBRATS said:

Might happen in St Helens 

It never did !

In the late 80's Liverpool St.Helens was then in RU's top flight and even though they had current England internationals like Dewi Morris playing for them they still never managed to attract more than a few hundred to games. Saints meanwhile were attracting thousands and getting 20K+ crowds for big games against the likes of Wigan.

OK so RU is now professional and cashed up but they will never get current league fans to switch to such a boring, inferior support. If the league club disappeared then fans would stop watching rugby all together and probably switch to a completely different sport.

[iangidds]

7 minutes ago, Damien said:

It's amazing that Sky pay Super League £40 million a year for the rights then. I didn't realise they were a charity doing that out of the goodness of their heart.

Let’s see what happens , it’s sounding very worrying to me that there could be a reduced offer ; you have to remember our competitors deals are going up ! So if that continues to play out we are getting left further behind 

[marklaspalmas]

5 hours ago, Yakstorm said:

For me if SL did suddenly get a multi-million dollar cash injection, I would propose that the monies be held centrally and clubs need to put forward business cases and apply for grants.  Just letting the clubs pay off existing debts and put it into overpriced marquees won't help the code long term, they need to invest in their brand, their venues and their off-field staff so much more.

Crazy idea. It worked perfectly back in 1995, putting all clubs on a sound financial footing and enabling them to reap the rewards of their long term investments in youth rugby, stadiums and facilities over the past 25 years.  Learn your history.

[Yakstorm]

23 hours ago, marklaspalmas said:

Crazy idea. It worked perfectly back in 1995, putting all clubs on a sound financial footing and enabling them to reap the rewards of their long term investments in youth rugby, stadiums and facilities over the past 25 years.  Learn your history.

You're stirring right? Nothing worked perfectly back in 1995, that is part of the problem the code has faced since then. 

It didn't help Oldham who went into liquidation two years after their 'cash injection', it didn't help Halifax who had to use all their funds from the sale of Thrum Hall to pay off debts in 98 or Workington who had significant debts by 96'.

You could throw in Sheffield, Hull, Gateshead, PSG who all enjoyed anything but 'perfect' just years after their Financial windfalls.

[marklaspalmas]

4 hours ago, Yakstorm said:

You're stirring right?

Guilty. It was a disgraceful disaster from a myopic bunch of greedy clubs in 95. Why on earth would this be different?

[dkw]

On 18/12/2019 at 19:33, Mark S said:

I just hope the clubs don’t waste the money and some goes towards employing some top notch business/marketing people.

It will all go on higher wages for the players, and more money to agents, simple as that. The only way that wont happen is if the RFL structure the payments so it has to be spent on other things.

[Gooleboy]

Whatever if any money comes in, a big chunk of it will end up as usual in second rate overseas players pockets.

[Angelic Cynic]

On 18/12/2019 at 18:28, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Yeah, imagine taking ideas from a business with $500m in revenue and last made $48m profit and a sport that has a far bigger profile than ours?! 

It’s a local sport for local people, Rugby League. 

  Elstone left a position at a Premier League soccer club.

   Everton,at one time,were one of the Top 5 movers for the Premier League breakaway.

   Why not take ideas from the Premier League if everything is just money-centric?

[Oliver Clothesoff]

1 hour ago, Angelic Cynic said:

  Elstone left a position at a Premier League soccer club.

   Everton,at one time,were one of the Top 5 movers for the Premier League breakaway.

   Why not take ideas from the Premier League if everything is just money-centric?

Sure he is/has/will. 

[Angelic Cynic]

1 hour ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Sure he is/has/will. 

  As long as it isn't the practice of making big money signings for Academy players - which I think defeats the objectives of clubs and home grown players.

  I'm beginning to think the situation may already be in place...

[Bob8]

On 19/12/2019 at 06:10, Yakstorm said:

If Rugby League really is as unpopular as you state in the UK, why would the likes of Sky paid as much as they did last deal? Or BBC pay to take the World Cup and the recent Lions Tour? Or would Betfred pay significantly more for naming rights in their renewal?

There is clearly a value associated with the sport in terms of subscribers at least, which any other subscription provider will seriously consider.  Even if there is a drop in value, we're not suddenly going to drop to zero.

As for the PE options, it's good to see the game at least looking into this. A sudden cash injection could significantly help the code boost its profile whilst also minimising the risk with the next TV deal.

For me if SL did suddenly get a multi-million dollar cash injection, I would propose that the monies be held centrally and clubs need to put forward business cases and apply for grants.  Just letting the clubs pay off existing debts and put it into overpriced marquees won't help the code long term, they need to invest in their brand, their venues and their off-field staff so much more.

The reason for its value was that people would buy satellite dishes. That would be the platform to sell everything else. That helps Sky as a national broadcaster. 

Which anyone under 30 will immediately recognize as very old fashioned. 

Because, media is increasingly international and buying access to TV services that are broadcast at you at times not of your choosing is becoming archaic. 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

8 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

 

Which anyone under 30 will immediately recognize as very old fashioned. 

Because, media is increasingly international and buying access to TV services that are broadcast at you at times not of your choosing 

This is somewhat overstated 

The massive majority (85%) of TV is still watched live on a television set even after 20 years of other options being available. I suspect for sport it is even higher

https://www.barb.co.uk/viewing-data/catch-up-and-live-tv-compared/

[Yakstorm]

4 hours ago, Bob8 said:

The reason for its value was that people would buy satellite dishes. That would be the platform to sell everything else. That helps Sky as a national broadcaster. 

Which anyone under 30 will immediately recognize as very old fashioned. 

Because, media is increasingly international and buying access to TV services that are broadcast at you at times not of your choosing is becoming archaic. 

Is that model really that different than say Amazon's model of buying products / content to get people to subscribe to Prime to then target those individuals to buy everything else?

The core difference is Amazon doesn't have the same per household infrastructure costs that the likes of Sky had to incur and have a wider range of Products to sell, but it's the same principle of 'vendor buys content in hope of converting interested fans into customers / subscribers with the aim to maximise the amount of money they can get out of them'.

As for viewing habits, live sport is one of the few Products that on TV that is immune to the consumer shift to 'On Demand' entertainment.  The shift in expectation from fans is that they are just able to watch on any device when the match is on.

[Bob8]

6 minutes ago, Yakstorm said:

Is that model really that different than say Amazon's model of buying products / content to get people to subscribe to Prime to then target those individuals to buy everything else?

The core difference is Amazon doesn't have the same per household infrastructure costs that the likes of Sky had to incur and have a wider range of Products to sell, but it's the same principle of 'vendor buys content in hope of converting interested fans into customers / subscribers with the aim to maximise the amount of money they can get out of them'.

As for viewing habits, live sport is one of the few Products that on TV that is immune to the consumer shift to 'On Demand' entertainment.  The shift in expectation from fans is that they are just able to watch on any device when the match is on.

Indeed not.  It is still the future rather than the present, but we have had national sports for about as long as we have had national media. That is getting blurrier 

[Oxford]

On 19/12/2019 at 09:22, iangidds said:

No one will pay a deal like RU got, so what you are writing is irrelevant 

Ian do you like RL?

In terms of the worth of the sport clearly you have no faith in it whatsoever.

The worth of the sport will be a gamble and and punt but a future with NY, TWP & Ontario does and will look drastically different from its worth without them. These are just the sort of brands private equity fawns over.

 

[iangidds]

14 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Ian do you like RL?

In terms of the worth of the sport clearly you have no faith in it whatsoever.

The worth of the sport will be a gamble and and punt but a future with NY, TWP & Ontario does and will look drastically different from its worth without them. These are just the sort of brands private equity fawns over.

 

I do like RL but I don’t have much faith in the game that’s true , I’ve read 30 years plus of pie in the sky stuff but the actual reality is we have not kept pace with other mainstream sports and as a result I think that our product is looking less appealing to sponsors/ broadcasters etc . RU can show a steady growth of income streams something I don’t think we can 

[iangidds]

Just now, iangidds said:

I do like RL but I don’t have much faith in the game that’s true , I’ve read 30 years plus of pie in the sky stuff but the actual reality is we have not kept pace with other mainstream sports and as a result I think that our product is looking less appealing to sponsors/ broadcasters etc . RU can show a steady growth of income streams something I don’t think we can 

Companies, wealthy individuals love to be associated with RU, Football whereas we get mushy peas and some two bit business men . I hope Toronto and the others work and the game springs forward again, RL was run into the ground by Nigel Wood and a lot of work is required to get the game back to a healthy position once again