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On 19/12/2019 at 09:22, iangidds said:

No one will pay a deal like RU got, so what you are writing is irrelevant 

Ian do you like RL?

In terms of the worth of the sport clearly you have no faith in it whatsoever.

The worth of the sport will be a gamble and and punt but a future with NY, TWP & Ontario does and will look drastically different from its worth without them. These are just the sort of brands private equity fawns over.

 

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"It is, by a million miles, a better sport than union. League is 80 minutes of physicality, speed, good handling, good kicking. It’s continuous."

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14 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Ian do you like RL?

In terms of the worth of the sport clearly you have no faith in it whatsoever.

The worth of the sport will be a gamble and and punt but a future with NY, TWP & Ontario does and will look drastically different from its worth without them. These are just the sort of brands private equity fawns over.

 

I do like RL but I don’t have much faith in the game that’s true , I’ve read 30 years plus of pie in the sky stuff but the actual reality is we have not kept pace with other mainstream sports and as a result I think that our product is looking less appealing to sponsors/ broadcasters etc . RU can show a steady growth of income streams something I don’t think we can 

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Just now, iangidds said:

I do like RL but I don’t have much faith in the game that’s true , I’ve read 30 years plus of pie in the sky stuff but the actual reality is we have not kept pace with other mainstream sports and as a result I think that our product is looking less appealing to sponsors/ broadcasters etc . RU can show a steady growth of income streams something I don’t think we can 

Companies, wealthy individuals love to be associated with RU, Football whereas we get mushy peas and some two bit business men . I hope Toronto and the others work and the game springs forward again, RL was run into the ground by Nigel Wood and a lot of work is required to get the game back to a healthy position once again

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27 minutes ago, iangidds said:

I do like RL but I don’t have much faith in the game that’s true , I’ve read 30 years plus of pie in the sky stuff but the actual reality is we have not kept pace with other mainstream sports and as a result I think that our product is looking less appealing to sponsors/ broadcasters etc . RU can show a steady growth of income streams something I don’t think we can 

I see what you are getting at but I disagree 

In terms of international progress this is the best we've ever had it 

Union in comparison is showing some bad signs 

In terms of league There's the rise of Tonga 

And I think people.underestimate what the wolfpack has achieved.  Their crowds dwarf union in a country where union is established 

In terms of union in auatralia the sport is irrelevant 

The Pacific islands could go the same way 

Their last world cup in Japan was fairly average 

As Oxford says if you add Ottawa into the mix it's exciting times for league 

Though I will say both super league and the nrl have been fairly.aversge for the past decade 

Edited by aj1908

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23 minutes ago, iangidds said:

Companies, wealthy individuals love to be associated with RU, Football whereas we get mushy peas and some two bit business men . I hope Toronto and the others work and the game springs forward again, RL was run into the ground by Nigel Wood and a lot of work is required to get the game back to a healthy position once again

Wood was a disaster.  Ralph isn't going to be much better

If only Richard Lewis was still around 

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1 minute ago, iangidds said:

I do like RL but I don’t have much faith in the game that’s true , I’ve read 30 years plus of pie in the sky stuff but the actual reality is we have not kept pace with other mainstream sports and as a result I think that our product is looking less appealing to sponsors/ broadcasters etc . RU can show a steady growth of income streams something I don’t think we can 

Why compare with yawn so often then?

It is certainly not the only sport that has moved on in this way nor is it the most useful model to base future actions on. It has a protected safe status that enables much of what you say to be true.

If you think our product is less appealing maybe you should move on. If I was unhappy with RL as much as that I'd have left years ago!

1 minute ago, iangidds said:

Companies, wealthy individuals love to be associated with RU,

Companies are run by men steeped in yawn and event mentality.

Yet again the same sport and suspiciously so I'm afraid.

There is also plenty of evidence to suggest that this "I think that our product is looking less appealing to sponsors/ broadcasters etc"

is not entirely true or the whole picture.

 

 


"It is, by a million miles, a better sport than union. League is 80 minutes of physicality, speed, good handling, good kicking. It’s continuous."

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1 minute ago, aj1908 said:

I see what you are getting at but I disagree 

In terms of international progress this is the best we've ever had it 

Union in comparison is showing some bad signs 

In terms of league There's the rise of Tonga 

And I think people.underestimate what the wolfpack has achieved.  Their crowds dwarf union in a country where union is established 

In terms of union the sport is irrelevant 

The Pacific islands could go the same way 

Their last world cup in Japan was fairly average 

As Oxford says if you add Ottawa into the mix it's exciting times for league 

Though I will say both super league and the nrl have been fairly.aversge for the past decade 

Some fair points but the international game needs the buy in from the whole game to work , we don’t have that track record but I hope that changes; I love what Toronto have done but I think we are getting to a situation where it’s ###### or bust time! If we have to take a pay cut from the tv revenues we will be in the brown stuff big time

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3 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Why compare with yawn so often then?

It is certainly not the only sport that has moved on in this way nor is it the most useful model to base future actions on. It has a protected safe status that enables much of what you say to be true.

If you think our product is less appealing maybe you should move on. If I was unhappy with RL as much as that I'd have left years ago!

Companies are run by men steeped in yawn and event mentality.

Yet again the same sport and suspiciously so I'm afraid.

There is also plenty of evidence to suggest that this "I think that our product is looking less appealing to sponsors/ broadcasters etc"

is not entirely true or the whole picture.

 

 

We are always judged against union and that won’t change over here, in business you look at your closest rival ; to be honest I don’t have too much to do with RL anymore because I think the game is generally tin pot in its outlook.

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6 minutes ago, iangidds said:

We are always judged against union and that won’t change over here, in business you look at your closest rival ; to be honest I don’t have too much to do with RL anymore because I think the game is generally tin pot in its outlook.

I agree with this a lot.

Both leagues seem scared to expand.  Happy to stay in their heartlands.

The Nrl has the money to do things.  Its disappointing they dont do more to be honest.

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4 minutes ago, iangidds said:

We are always judged against union and that won’t change over here, in business you look at your closest rival ; to be honest I don’t have too much to do with RL anymore because I think the game is generally tin pot in its outlook.

Apart from the misjudged IMO competition for the same players I don't believe they are our main rival nor should they be a go to measurement of our reputed failures. It's like comparing a Privately educated pupil with a Secondary Modern child in their professions or life chances.


"It is, by a million miles, a better sport than union. League is 80 minutes of physicality, speed, good handling, good kicking. It’s continuous."

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3 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Apart from the misjudged IMO competition for the same players I don't believe they are our main rival nor should they be a go to measurement of our reputed failures. It's like comparing a Privately educated pupil with a Secondary Modern child in their professions or life chances.

Disagree because 

1. They both came from the same sport.  It's good to compare 

2. They both are smallish sports in terms of the world.  I don't think we should compare to soccer for example. 

3. They have similar rules and can.attract fans from.each 

4. As you said competition for players 

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8 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

Disagree because 

1. They both came from the same sport.  It's good to compare 

2. They both are smallish sports in terms of the world.  I don't think we should compare to soccer for example. 

3. They have similar rules and can.attract fans from.each 

4. As you said competition for players 

Disgaree because

1. It serves no useful purpose.

2. One is smallish to a great degree because of the efforst of the other.

3. They have some similar rules but far more that make them disimilar and chalk and cheese.

4, I did say the competition for players was questionable and far more who were good in one sport proved very ordinary in the other than those who proved truly gifted at both. And most of them were when yawn was amateur and RL was semi- professional.

And I do feel you are firmly in the K&C camp because of the nature of your posts.

Most of RL's problems have been of it's own making and its inability to make up its mind about what its strengths are and which direction is best. They have nothing at all to do with the product which still has yet to be sold at the level of its excitement.

Now if you don't mind please stand aside as someone might actually want to discuss private equity!

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"It is, by a million miles, a better sport than union. League is 80 minutes of physicality, speed, good handling, good kicking. It’s continuous."

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27 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Disgaree because

1. It serves no useful purpose.

2. One is smallish to a great degree because of the efforst of the other.

3. They have some similar rules but far more that make them disimilar and chalk and cheese.

4, I did say the competition for players was questionable and far more who were good in one sport proved very ordinary in the other than those who proved truly gifted at both. And most of them were when yawn was amateur and RL was semi- professional.

And I do feel you are firmly in the K&C camp because of the nature of your posts.

Most of RL's problems have been of it's own making and its inability to make up its mind about what its strengths are and which direction is best. They have nothing at all to do with the product which still has yet to be sold at the level of its excitement.

Now if you don't mind please stand aside as someone might actually want to discuss private equity!

Do.you read your own posts?

Look.what you said in point two then you say the exact opposite about rugby leagues problems 

😀😀😀

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You'd think rugby league hadn't introduced the first trans Atlantic league based on some posts on here.

Rugby league will always be the underdog, will never be as well funded or as socially or politically acceptable as other sports, and as one other sport in particular.

When you try to paint these essential and almost unchangeable limitations as reasons to hate on our sport then forgive me for thinking it is a rather bad faith argument. 

Edited by M j M
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22 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

1. Do.you read your own posts?

2. Look.what you said in point two then you say the exact opposite about rugby leagues problems 

😀😀😀

1. Mostly yes to check spelling etc.

2, No I didn't,  there is a distinction between out history and out outlook.

NY, Ontario and TWP will increase our saleability and therefore the chances of private equity.

If there is a problem with PE is will most likely be found in attitudes of those providing the money towards our sport. Hopefully the sport will take them along with it even if it doesn't seem to be able to do that with you.

 

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"It is, by a million miles, a better sport than union. League is 80 minutes of physicality, speed, good handling, good kicking. It’s continuous."

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18 minutes ago, M j M said:

You'd think rugby league hadn't introduced the first trans Atlantic league based on some posts on here.

Rugby league will always be the underdog, will never be as well funded or as socially or politically acceptable as other sports, and as one other sport in particular.

When you try to paint these essential and almost unchangeable limitations as reasons to hate on our sport then forgive me for thinking it is a rather bad faith argument. 

To be fair rugby league didn't do much to bring in the wolfpack 

If anything id say it was more the opposite 

If it wasn't for argyle and Perez there would be no wolfpack.

And the worrying sign is when the owner of hull is complaining about travel to Toronto 

The wolfpack were a.gift to English rugby league.  I really hope.the game doesn't drive them away by treating them.unfairly 

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Private equity investors are looking into rising markets , ours shows decline in almost everything or very stagnant growth; Let’s hope we don’t run Argyle out of town like we did to Branson and Koukash. Small thinking gets what it deserves 

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6 minutes ago, iangidds said:

Private equity investors are looking into rising markets , ours shows decline in almost everything or very stagnant growth; Let’s hope we don’t run Argyle out of town like we did to Branson and Koukash. Small thinking gets what it deserves 

Couldn't agree more with this.

I fear the game will.drive argyle away and the wolfpack will.end up a.union club.

If they are successful Ralph will.try and claim credit I'm sure 

I'm not a fan of private equity.  I was more interested in that boxing pelromoter Hearn getting involved.  Another missed opportunity.

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8 minutes ago, iangidds said:

Private equity investors are looking into rising markets , ours shows decline in almost everything or very stagnant growth; Let’s hope we don’t run Argyle out of town like we did to Branson and Koukash. Small thinking gets what it deserves 

Agree with our response to Branson and Koukash and the small thinking. I think this will have more impact than the state of the market involved which can change and can be changed.

 

Edited by Oxford

"It is, by a million miles, a better sport than union. League is 80 minutes of physicality, speed, good handling, good kicking. It’s continuous."

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4 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

Couldn't agree more with this.

I fear the game will.drive argyle away and the wolfpack will.end up a.union club.

If they are successful Ralph will.try and claim credit I'm sure 

I'm not a fan of private equity.  I was more interested in that boxing pelromoter Hearn getting involved.  Another missed opportunity.

Argyle is talking in terms of rugby as the Canadian market is not too entrenched in their views , this could quite easily be seen as hedging his bets. I just looked up a stat that RL participation has decreased by 39% over the last decade whilst RU (who I still consider our main competition) have had a modest growth of 7%. Add in tv deals,blue chip sponsors etc etc and their ability to extract far more for their product than us shows why private equity funds are going after Union and not us. We are considered yesterdays sport I feel by the people who make the financial decisions, I hope to god I’m wrong but apart from Richard Lewis I’ve never seen anyone who could provide professional leadership and hope for our sport.

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2 minutes ago, iangidds said:

Argyle is talking in terms of rugby as the Canadian market is not too entrenched in their views , this could quite easily be seen as hedging his bets. I just looked up a stat that RL participation has decreased by 39% over the last decade whilst RU (who I still consider our main competition) have had a modest growth of 7%. Add in tv deals,blue chip sponsors etc etc and their ability to extract far more for their product than us shows why private equity funds are going after Union and not us. We are considered yesterdays sport I feel by the people who make the financial decisions, I hope to god I’m wrong but apart from Richard Lewis I’ve never seen anyone who could provide professional leadership and hope for our sport.

What Ralph asking the wolfpack for a 500k bond for entering the challenge cup not a sign he supports expansion lol.

Poor Lewis got a ###### expansion team like celtic crusaders to work with.  Imagine he had the wolfpack back then 

Both rimmer and vlandys will do as little as possible for expansion 

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4 hours ago, Oxford said:

 

NY, Ontario and TWP will increase our saleability and therefore the chances of private equity

 

Ottawa is the city that expects to join the RFL in 2021.

Ontario is the large province (more than 4 times the size of the UK) containing both Ottawa and Toronto.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ontario/@48.9552626,-93.7065152,5z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x4cce05b25f5113af:0x70f8425629621e09!8m2!3d51.253775!4d-85.323214?hl=en-ca

Thanks

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14 hours ago, John WP Fan said:

Ottawa is the city that expects to join the RFL in 2021.

Ontario is the large province (more than 4 times the size of the UK) containing both Ottawa and Toronto.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ontario/@48.9552626,-93.7065152,5z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x4cce05b25f5113af:0x70f8425629621e09!8m2!3d51.253775!4d-85.323214?hl=en-ca

Thanks

If you don't think big what's the point?


"It is, by a million miles, a better sport than union. League is 80 minutes of physicality, speed, good handling, good kicking. It’s continuous."

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22 hours ago, iangidds said:

I do like RL but I don’t have much faith in the game that’s true , I’ve read 30 years plus of pie in the sky stuff but the actual reality is we have not kept pace with other mainstream sports and as a result I think that our product is looking less appealing to sponsors/ broadcasters etc . RU can show a steady growth of income streams something I don’t think we can 

It was only a short while ago you were making a film about RL.  Was it just to identify everything bad about the game Ian?

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There is no such thing as a free lunch !

I fear that certain owners believe they can gain a capital injection,without it costing them anything. If it happens,they will be proved wrong. I'm afraid it is yet more short termism/kicking the can down the road. RL has a history of wasting oppourtunities/investment.

Incidentally,similar comments apply to rugby union.

 

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