Swinton (Merged Threads)

[meast]

As much as I can have some sympathy with the long standing , loyal, Swinton fans, surely it would have been worth embracing for a year or two to see how it pans out? 

Had "Manchester" got on board, be it businesses, sponsors, spectators etc then maybe they could have reverted back to Swinton or even Manchester-Swinton or something.

For the supporters not to even entertain it and potentially kill of the club they love seems ludicrous to me, and I am someone who thoroughly objected to a dreadful merger in 1999!

[Pyjamarama]

2 hours ago, Bleep1673 said:

Most of the posters on here are not being Mr Angry FROM Swinton, but seem to be Mr Angry AT Swinton, most of the posts on here seem to want the name Swinton to die, and the club be renamed as Manchester for some reason best known to themselves, a rebranding is never going to work, not just with Swinton, but with any club. We are not a franchise based game, you can't just rename a club, and move it, or move it and rename the club, it does not matter how long we have played away from our spiritual home, but the fact we have done for 25 years, and we are still here beating teams whose fans have been on this thread wanting us to die, is testament to the supporters, and hard working staff and players of Swinton Lions RLFC.

The rugby league community, on this thread, seems to want the name change, knowing it will kill the club, then when their own board suggest something similar to appease a sponsor, for example, they can turn around and point at the corpse that was the Lions, and say it didn't work there it won't work with us. We have been around since 1866, we still have a few more years left in us still, so go back to posting negative comments about someone else instead, because that's all you idiots seem to do, negative comments, the art of being a non-Rugby League fan.

I think you are misinterpreting most peoples intentions on here. My guess is that virtually everyone on here is a genuine RL fan who wants the best for all our clubs - including Swinton. The effort and dedication of players, staff & fans of Swinton is without question & to be applauded. If Swinton grow and prosper by keep doing what they have been doing for the last 25 years then fine & good luck to you. But as a RL fan who wants to see the club successful, I just worry where the next generation of Swinton fans are going to come from. Will the youth of Swinton flock to Sale? Will the youth of Sale suddenly decide that it would be a great idea to start watching another towns team?

Don't get me wrong, Just changing a name clearly isn't the answer to Swintons problems, however the name change may have just been the catalyst for long term positive change. The board of directors (most of whom appear to be genuine Swinton fans) who were the closest to the business side of the club have made it clear that in their opinion the club will struggle to continue long term by operating as it does at the moment. I genuinely hope I'm wrong & do wish Swinton all the best for the future in whatever path they chose to take. 

[Themusician_2]

Changing the name would've been a disaster it would've just isolated the main fan base. Imagine St helens changing their name to liverpool to try and appeal to a football city. Just my opinion though 

[gingerjon]

5 hours ago, Bleep1673 said:

Most of the posters on here are not being Mr Angry FROM Swinton, but seem to be Mr Angry AT Swinton, most of the posts on here seem to want the name Swinton to die, and the club be renamed as Manchester for some reason best known to themselves, a rebranding is never going to work, not just with Swinton, but with any club. We are not a franchise based game, you can't just rename a club, and move it, or move it and rename the club, it does not matter how long we have played away from our spiritual home, but the fact we have done for 25 years, and we are still here beating teams whose fans have been on this thread wanting us to die, is testament to the supporters, and hard working staff and players of Swinton Lions RLFC.

The rugby league community, on this thread, seems to want the name change, knowing it will kill the club, then when their own board suggest something similar to appease a sponsor, for example, they can turn around and point at the corpse that was the Lions, and say it didn't work there it won't work with us. We have been around since 1866, we still have a few more years left in us still, so go back to posting negative comments about someone else instead, because that's all you idiots seem to do, negative comments, the art of being a non-Rugby League fan.

Nobody wants the Swinton club to die.

And if someone is able to take the club and make a success of it from this position then I think you'll find that every single person who has posted on this thread will be genuinely delighted.

[Lobbygobbler]

10 minutes ago, Themusician_2 said:

Changing the name would've been a disaster it would've just isolated the main fan base. Imagine St helens changing their name to liverpool to try and appeal to a football city. Just my opinion though 

Do St Helens have a fanbase of less than 500 fans? For what its worth, the namechange was pointless because they would not have been playing in Manchester. Sale (unlike Swinton, Moston, Droylsden et) is not within the Manchester ringroad (what I would call Manchester), and was never even in Lancashire.

[The Great Dane]

5 hours ago, Bleep1673 said:

Most of the posters on here are not being Mr Angry FROM Swinton, but seem to be Mr Angry AT Swinton, most of the posts on here seem to want the name Swinton to die, and the club be renamed as Manchester for some reason best known to themselves, a rebranding is never going to work, not just with Swinton, but with any club. We are not a franchise based game, you can't just rename a club, and move it, or move it and rename the club, it does not matter how long we have played away from our spiritual home, but the fact we have done for 25 years, and we are still here beating teams whose fans have been on this thread wanting us to die, is testament to the supporters, and hard working staff and players of Swinton Lions RLFC.

Queanbeyan Blues - Canberra Raiders.

Eastern Suburbs - Sydney Roosters.

Bradford Northern - Bradford Bulls.

Houston Oliers - Tennessee Titans.

Boston Orioles - New York Highlanders - New York Yankees.

Newton Heath LYR F.C. - Manchester United F.C.

I could go on forever and ever, but I'm sure you get the point.

Look mate, it's not my intention to hurt your feelings or anything, but you guys have got nothing to lose by renaming and trying to appeal to a broader audience, but if you don't try to appeal to a greater audience you've got a lot to lose, because if the Lions don't start appealing to a larger audience they'll almost certainly fade away into nothing in the next couple of generations.

Besides if it doesn't work out you can always go back to being Swinton, just like the Balmian Tigers and Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs, they both tried out the 'Sydney' brand, it didn't work out for them so they changed back and in the grand scheme of things no harm was done.

[GUBRATS]

22 minutes ago, Themusician_2 said:

Changing the name would've been a disaster it would've just isolated the main fan base. Imagine St helens changing their name to liverpool to try and appeal to a football city. Just my opinion though 

If Swinton were playing in Swinton then I doubt you find hardly anybody on here suggesting they should accept a name change , I've lots of time for the Swinton fans , your loyalty is to be greatly admired , something I do everything we play you either at Leigh or at the various venues I've visited as your home's over the years 

But as a return looks highly unlikely I also have sympathy for Andy ( another Leyther ) and his board 

[Bleep1673]

1 minute ago, The Great Dane said:

Queanbeyan Blues - Canberra Raiders.

Eastern Suburbs - Sydney Roosters.

Bradford Northern - Bradford Bulls.

Houston Oliers - Tennessee Titans.

Boston Orioles - New York Highlanders - New York Yankees.

Newton Heath LYR F.C. - Manchester United F.C.

I could go on forever and ever, but I'm sure you get the point

I am sure you can go on for ever, listening to your own voice.

Newton Heath didn't have any history, and only lasted 24 years

Northern to Bulls wasn't a name change as such, just a tag name to fit in with the Super League American Style ideas, sorry, where are they now? Oh, yeah, Dewsbury.

Houston/Tennessee & Orioles, NYY are American franchises, we don't work like that in the UK

Raiders (1982 franchise)/Roosters are Australian, see above, Franchises

[The Great Dane]

19 minutes ago, Bleep1673 said:

I am sure you can go on for ever, listening to your own voice.

Newton Heath didn't have any history, and only lasted 24 years

Northern to Bulls wasn't a name change as such, just a tag name to fit in with the Super League American Style ideas, sorry, where are they now? Oh, yeah, Dewsbury.

Houston/Tennessee & Orioles, NYY are American franchises, we don't work like that in the UK

Raiders (1982 franchise)/Roosters are Australian, see above, Franchises

Well that answers one of my questions from earlier in the thread. . . 

A quarter century is a good chunk of time, for example do you reckon that the Storm have no history and that they could just change their brand and it wouldn't matter? 

Also, it seems to me that despite all that 123 years of "history" in RL that Swinton has basically done sweet all since the Second World War. So all that "history" that you are protecting isn't all it's cracked up to be!    

Also despite what you tell yourselves you don't work any different in the UK, it's only your arrogate need to be better than others that let's you believe that.

[redjonn]

The onus is on those wanting to make the change. Showing a strong argument and compelling commercial case.  If they have no such thing and doing it on a whim because they think it would work then it wouldn't convince me. 

I have no idea if they have made such a strong case, but I'm guessing those on this forum are making the case on their own whim as distinct from the compelling commercial case.

[meast]

2 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Queanbeyan Blues - Canberra Raiders.

Eastern Suburbs - Sydney Roosters.

Bradford Northern - Bradford Bulls.

Houston Oliers - Tennessee Titans.

Boston Orioles - New York Highlanders - New York Yankees.

Newton Heath LYR F.C. - Manchester United F.C.

I could go on forever and ever, but I'm sure you get the point.

Look mate, it's not my intention to hurt your feelings or anything, but you guys have got nothing to lose by renaming and trying to appeal to a broader audience, but if you don't try to appeal to a greater audience you've got a lot to lose, because if the Lions don't start appealing to a larger audience they'll almost certainly fade away into nothing in the next couple of generations.

Besides if it doesn't work out you can always go back to being Swinton, just like the Balmian Tigers and Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs, they both tried out the 'Sydney' brand, it didn't work out for them so they changed back and in the grand scheme of things no harm was done.

Leigh Centurions - Toronto Wolfpack

[Tommygilf]

2 hours ago, redjonn said:

The onus is on those wanting to make the change. Showing a strong argument and compelling commercial case.  If they have no such thing and doing it on a whim because they think it would work then it wouldn't convince me. 

I have no idea if they have made such a strong case, but I'm guessing those on this forum are making the case on their own whim as distinct from the compelling commercial case.

I think the case is being made that the current model is unsustainable and will ultimately lead to the collapse of the club. Thus the idea being that doing something different may help to improve the future of the club. 

I think the board have seen the writing on the wall and have tried to choose between certain annihilation and potential survival.

[JohnM]

Even at their peak in the early 1960s, Swinton never attracted a huge following. Swinton never was a strong league area, the main amateur team was in the 60s Folly Lane. I played briefly for Moorside Juniors and many a time we couldn't put out 13 players. The ground st Station Road in the early 60s was already deteriorating and despite 2 consecutive Div 1 trophies, the club was living a hand to mouth existence.  

It's a tribute to successive directors that the club is even in existence today. 

 

[gazza77]

I can see why Swinton fans are unhappy, not that abuse or threats to the former board are acceptable at all. The club, with a long and proud history are seemingly disappearing forever. That said, may they now anyway? 

I'm a Fev fan. Would I be upset if the club decided to rebrand as "West Yorkshire Suburb" or something similar? Yes. That said, I'm 42, and if the we'd not been playing in Featherstone since I was 15, I'd like to hope I'd be open to all options for survival and growth. 

[Lobbygobbler]

2 hours ago, JohnM said:

Even at their peak in the early 1960s, Swinton never attracted a huge following. Swinton never was a strong league area, the main amateur team was in the 60s Folly Lane. I played briefly for Moorside Juniors and many a time we couldn't put out 13 players. The ground st Station Road in the early 60s was already deteriorating and despite 2 consecutive Div 1 trophies, the club was living a hand to mouth existence.  

It's a tribute to successive directors that the club is even in existence today. 

 

Do you support Swinton?

[sweaty craiq]

Let me start off by saying I find a big chunk of Swinton fans repulsive, worst in RL imo. I will assume its because of 30 years Nomadic existence from an entity they love.

That section of fans are clinging to the name Swinton, I fully empathise with this btw. But if you are going to call your owners/board out you must be ready for the fall out.

The current board of Swinton have played a masterstroke that has taken the wind out of the whingers who seem unwilling to stick their cash into their 'beloved' club. Should/when they fail to back up the hot wind with cash the old board ride back in with whatever agenda and name change they want.

Will be an interesting month ahead

 

[DC77]

8 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Queanbeyan Blues - Canberra Raiders.

Eastern Suburbs - Sydney Roosters.

Bradford Northern - Bradford Bulls.

Houston Oliers - Tennessee Titans.

Boston Orioles - New York Highlanders - New York Yankees.

Newton Heath LYR F.C. - Manchester United F.C.

I could go on forever and ever, but I'm sure you get the point.

Look mate, it's not my intention to hurt your feelings or anything, but you guys have got nothing to lose by renaming and trying to appeal to a broader audience, but if you don't try to appeal to a greater audience you've got a lot to lose, because if the Lions don't start appealing to a larger audience they'll almost certainly fade away into nothing in the next couple of generations.

Besides if it doesn't work out you can always go back to being Swinton, just like the Balmian Tigers and Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs, they both tried out the 'Sydney' brand, it didn't work out for them so they changed back and in the grand scheme of things no harm was done.

Terrible examples. There’s a name change, which is merely cosmetic, and then there’s uprooting the club (or “franchise”.. God i hate that term) to another location for the good of “the business” (cheerio folks), a cold, clinical, alien concept here thank Christ as clubs have a deep connection to the area they represent.

Damien Green on a RL podcast made a good point (among many) that there’s nothing to lose with a name change in this instance. If after a few years there’s no upturn in gate receipts or exposure, just change back to Swinton. The name is still on the club crest. Personally I think it’s a wise move.

[whatmichaelsays]

22 hours ago, Oxford said:

That seems  a bit harsh but too often we tend to do that to our band of brothers.

The affinity we have for the label, the name, the place means this is like abandoning our dreams.

Northern communities are rightly feeling they've been ignored, abandoned and neglected for forever, this is just another nail in the coffin for all involved.

And they are our friends and never our enemies and just to emphasise this that would include Parky and anyone else on the no expansion side.

The only thing we must call them up on is making threats and insulting the board of directors because they're not the enemy either!

And all of us need to stop playing at being Mr Angry from Swinton.

I don't think it is harsh. The reaction to a board of directors trying to change the direction of travel for a club in this sport is just saddening. 

The sense of 'localism' that has driven much of this reaction just doesn't exist when you start dropping down to the generations that the sport needs to start attracting. People are more mobile than they've ever been before - they don't live and die in the towns they were born in any more. 'Swinton' probably means much less to younger generations, even those in Swinton.

I was born in Bramley, a place that also has a history of RL but as I've lived and worked across the UK and Europe, Bramley is no more a part of my identity than any of the other places I have lived in. I would have no issue if Bramley were to decide that their ambitions were bigger than LS13. 

What the directors at Swinton are (or were) trying to do is make that 'label' under which they play relevant to the next generation of supporter, sponsor and investor. Ones who identify with more than just their own postcode. Would it have succeeded? It would have needed a lot of hard work in the same way that making any brand stick takes work, but now we'll probably never know. 

This isn't about trying to leave a northern community being, but instead about taking one forward. The Greater Manchester area is a successful area but that success relies on Manchester itself. People from all over the country are coming to Manchester to work and study - I think a rebrand would have helped the Swinton club tap into that. 

I think my 'King of the ashes' comment is fair. There are some who would appear to prefer to die as Swinton than live as Manchester. I think that mentality is just bizzare. You can't complain about being left behind if you aren't prepared to move on. 

[Oxford]

20 hours ago, Bleep1673 said:

Most of the posters on here are not being Mr Angry FROM Swinton

I think you need to look at the message it was not about the posters on here, it was about anger which was understandable and when it changes into threats and insults when it simply isn't acceptable.

 

49 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

This isn't about trying to leave a northern community being

For any fans of the Label/Club/Team it's never been about just having a team. It distinguishes itself from the larger football clubs by being entirely in most cases where you were born, brought up and the feeling of where you belong in a strong sense. Arguing you're doing it for their own good means very little in the face of those strongly held beliefs and feelings.

[JohnM]

7 hours ago, Lobbygobbler said:

Do you support Swinton?

In what respect support? 

I lived in Swinton, 15 mins walk from Station Road, from birth in 1946 to departure in 1966.

I went to primary and junior school there.

I played in the band that provided the prematch and half time music for the big games, semi finals, internationals

In my youth I was a member of the Supporters Club.

My parents lived there from 1943 until their death in 2002/3.

Does that help? 

[DoubleD]

8 hours ago, DC77 said:

Damien Green on a RL podcast made a good point (among many) that there’s nothing to lose with a name change in this instance. If after a few years there’s no upturn in gate receipts or exposure, just change back to Swinton. The name is still on the club crest. Personally I think it’s a wise move.

I just don’t think that’s practical. They would’ve already alienated those die hard Swinton fans who’d have become disillusioned and walked away already. They wouldn’t come back. 

If having a compromise of a name like Manchester Swinton Lions was acceptable to the Supporter’s Trust, I don’t know why the board didn’t just run with it. After a few years, if successful, they could just start dropping the Swinton part anyway, like happens with Manly (Warringah) Sea Eagles or Canterbury (Bankstown) Bulldogs

[Padge]

If a clubs name is synonymous with the district in which they play then Swinton went out existence 20 odd years ago. 

[The Great Dane]

9 hours ago, DC77 said:

Terrible examples. There’s a name change, which is merely cosmetic, and then there’s uprooting the club (or “franchise”.. God i hate that term) to another location for the good of “the business” (cheerio folks), a cold, clinical, alien concept here thank Christ as clubs have a deep connection to the area they represent.

Whether you want to pretend it isn't or not , sport is a business, it needs to make money to survive.

If you don't have a customer base that is interested in buying the product (like Swinton) then you need a way to find/create one that is, otherwise you go broke. Sometimes finding a customer base necessitates relocating a business.

Now at the end of the day, if you are truly honest with yourself, don't you think that it's a better result for everybody if clubs don't allow themselves to slowly die and instead actually have a crack a growing not only themselves but the sport as well?

I mean putting your misguided moral grandstanding to the side for a second, surely you realise that it's much, much better for Baseball that the New York Yankees (one of the most recognisable sports brands in the world) exist instead of the Boston Orioles allowing themselves to become a footnote in Baseball history!? 

Oh and BTW, it's not an alien concept ( Wasps RFC for example), that is just an excuse to maintain the status quo.

9 hours ago, DC77 said:

Damien Green on a RL podcast made a good point (among many) that there’s nothing to lose with a name change in this instance. If after a few years there’s no upturn in gate receipts or exposure, just change back to Swinton. The name is still on the club crest. Personally I think it’s a wise move.

Well if the plan was to only change the name and then hope that more people show up then it was a stupid waste of time anyway.

It takes so much more than that to be successful, they'd need to have a marketing plan, a plan to eventually fully relocate into Manchester it's self, a plan for extensive community engagement, etc, etc.

[The Great Dane]

1 hour ago, DoubleD said:

I just don’t think that’s practical. They would’ve already alienated those die hard Swinton fans who’d have become disillusioned and walked away already. They wouldn’t come back. 

If having a compromise of a name like Manchester Swinton Lions was acceptable to the Supporter’s Trust, I don’t know why the board didn’t just run with it. After a few years, if successful, they could just start dropping the Swinton part anyway, like happens with Manly (Warringah) Sea Eagles or Canterbury (Bankstown) Bulldogs

Warringah is the electorate/region that Manly beach is in and Canterbury-Bankstown is the hyphenated name for the electorate that represents that part of Sydney as well.

Though, in the Dogs case for example, there are suburbs called Canterbury and Bankstown, the Bulldogs don't only represent them they represent all of the suburbs in the Canterbury-Bankstown electorate.

The only reason that i.e. the Bankstown in Canterbury-Bankstown is dropped is for brevity, not because the club is trying to distance themselves from Bankstown. 

[wonderofwood]

19 hours ago, Themusician_2 said:

Changing the name would've been a disaster it would've just isolated the main fan base. Imagine St helens changing their name to liverpool to try and appeal to a football city. Just my opinion though 

I agree , just changing the name would be a disaster - they should go the whole hog and merge Swinton , Rochdale & Oldham Call them Manchester Lionhornyeds , become a feeder club to Salford and play all their games at the AJ Bell as a weekend double header