Themusician_2 Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 5 hours ago, RP London said: If the choice was that the club dies anyway or you change the name (still play at the same ground, still play in the same kit, have the same badge but with a different name on it etc) and have a few more years and the chance to become a bigger club which would you prefer? This is a hypothetical question so please dont go off on a "this will never happen, we can survive as Swinton etc etc" I am interested in what you would chose in this scenario.. Who said the club would die if it remained as swinton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Themusician_2 said: Who said the club would die if it remained as swinton? Well, they do say that past performance is not an indicator of future returns. However, there is a huge body of historical data that certainly indicates a terminal trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 6 hours ago, RP London said: If the choice was that the club dies anyway or you change the name (still play at the same ground, still play in the same kit, have the same badge but with a different name on it etc) and have a few more years and the chance to become a bigger club which would you prefer? This is a hypothetical question so please dont go off on a "this will never happen, we can survive as Swinton etc etc" I am interested in what you would chose in this scenario.. I thought about your question with regard to my club and it's very difficult to answer. I did support a team that disappeared as a league club, Bramley. In retrospect, I would have continued had they kept the same colours and identity but not the name. I think a club can be the team of an area even if it doesn't bear it's name. For example in Edinburgh, Hibs are now really the team of Leith. But then again that is not what is being advocated here. I think as a compromise the Swinton name should have been kept as Manchester Swinton maybe. I do think the Swinton fans are most informed about this and deserve our support whatever they decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 8 hours ago, Themusician_2 said: Agreed once the name is changed the clubs identity will be destroyed How about Newcastle Thunder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolton Leyther Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Niels said: I thought about your question with regard to my club and it's very difficult to answer. I did support a team that disappeared as a league club, Bramley. In retrospect, I would have continued had they kept the same colours and identity but not the name. I think a club can be the team of an area even if it doesn't bear it's name. For example in Edinburgh, Hibs are now really the team of Leith. But then again that is not what is being advocated here. I think as a compromise the Swinton name should have been kept as Manchester Swinton maybe. I do think the Swinton fans are most informed about this and deserve our support whatever they decide. A very reasonable post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Themusician_2 said: Who said the club would die if it remained as swinton? That’s not the point, I simply asked a question... the clue was the word “hypothetical”.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Niels said: I thought about your question with regard to my club and it's very difficult to answer. I did support a team that disappeared as a league club, Bramley. In retrospect, I would have continued had they kept the same colours and identity but not the name. I think a club can be the team of an area even if it doesn't bear it's name. For example in Edinburgh, Hibs are now really the team of Leith. But then again that is not what is being advocated here. I think as a compromise the Swinton name should have been kept as Manchester Swinton maybe. I do think the Swinton fans are most informed about this and deserve our support whatever they decide. Thank you for giving it the time and thought. Really interesting answer. I’ve only been in the position of losing my club as it moved to Huddersfield, more recently possible losses of the club again but with Sheffield there isn’t really this middle ground as South Yorkshire isn’t quite the same. However, if that’s what it took I would go with it after losing the club completely not that long ago. It’s why I asked as cannot put myself exactly in the position.. also many people are talking with “we’ll stay alive” clouding their view a little (as equally the “they’re gone without it” potentially is clouding the other side of the argument) and I think a lot of the opinion is clouded by the fact the choice isn’t, yet, as stark as my question makes it which is why I thought I would ask. Thank you for your answer and being open and honest with it... it’s food for thought for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 On 17/09/2019 at 19:10, Niels said: I thought about your question with regard to my club and it's very difficult to answer. I did support a team that disappeared as a league club, Bramley. In retrospect, I would have continued had they kept the same colours and identity but not the name. I think a club can be the team of an area even if it doesn't bear it's name. For example in Edinburgh, Hibs are now really the team of Leith. But then I do think the Swinton fans are most informed about this and deserve our support whatever they decide. Looks like they've voted for youth in Asia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Willow Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 The problem with this situation is the lack of planning and lack of consultation with fans. Just changing the name to Manchester won't help. If Andy Mazey and the board went to fans and showed where extra funding would materialise from then many would weigh up survival against the name. The doesn't seem to be any hard facts of where extra funding would appear from, nor where the extra fans would come from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Daddy Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 10 minutes ago, Red Willow said: The problem with this situation is the lack of planning and lack of consultation with fans. Just changing the name to Manchester won't help. If Andy Mazey and the board went to fans and showed where extra funding would materialise from then many would weigh up survival against the name. The doesn't seem to be any hard facts of where extra funding would appear from, nor where the extra fans would come from The board did do consultations. But I'm not one for the argument that every Tom, Dick and Harry has to have a say in the running of the club. This is why there is a board, to make tough decisions. I don't see how the situation would be of benefit to limiting or having some sort voting system with an ever aging and declining fan base. When you hear supporters say they wanted more consultations, it just sounds like another way of saying we want an opportunity to have endless unproductive debates or to put a spanner in the works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleep1673 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 As a disjointed supporter of a club that won 2 consecutive Championships when I was born, I disagree about a declining fan base, we have had the best support for 10 years, under the name of Swinton, we don't need a moniker that relates us to a city that does not have a Rugby team with that name of either code. Manchester as a title is a rubbish idea. I remember watching MANCHESTER STORM Ice hockey. with 8,000 in the Arena, now they are playing in front of 2,000 max in Altrincham, not far from Sale. Coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future is League Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter now, as without Andy Mazey and former directors money going into the club Swinton are going to fold. Nobody with money will want to get involved with a club with insular fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolton Leyther Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 2 hours ago, The Future is League said: The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter now, as without Andy Mazey and former directors money going into the club Swinton are going to fold. Nobody with money will want to get involved with a club with insular fans. Very unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Bleep1673 said: As a disjointed supporter of a club that won 2 consecutive Championships when I was born, I disagree about a declining fan base, we have had the best support for 10 years, under the name of Swinton, we don't need a moniker that relates us to a city that does not have a Rugby team with that name of either code. Manchester as a title is a rubbish idea. I remember watching MANCHESTER STORM Ice hockey. with 8,000 in the Arena, now they are playing in front of 2,000 max in Altrincham, not far from Sale. Coincidence? But if they played as altrincham storm it would be in front of 500 (if that).... which is better? Its not about the name as such.. it’s what you do with it.. the argument is surely that it is easier to do something with the Manchester name than with the Swinton name.. which is hard to disagree with.. whether it would work is a matter for debate and sadly we will never know but with the name swinton its going to be a lot harder to be fair, not impossible but a lot harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGFATHER Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 I honestly do not really understand the bitterness towards renaming the club. Calling a carrot a plum, doesn't make it a plum. Our ground is now officially the Fox's Biscuits Stadium, but ask most fans and they will tell you it is Mount Pleasant. If the board said they are changing Batley's name to the Soothill Sharks for example, I can honestly say it wouldn't bother me one iota, it would always be Batley to me, like Huddersfield is still Fartown to lots of their fans, Bradford is still Northern to some of theirs. If the plan was to move the club away from the current ground in Sale to the other side of Manchester I could understand the reaction, but they aren't, so what does it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Bolton Leyther said: Very unfair. Its still a fact though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate90 Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 The fans should have given the name change a chance and if it failed they could have changed it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellsy4HullFC Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 51 minutes ago, DOGFATHER said: If the plan was to move the club away from the current ground in Sale to the other side of Manchester I could understand the reaction, but they aren't, so what does it matter? Well they've played at Preston before haven't they? That's past Manchester, do shouldn't even be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future is League Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 9 hours ago, Bolton Leyther said: Very unfair. But true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fevtom Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 8 hours ago, DOGFATHER said: I honestly do not really understand the bitterness towards renaming the club. Calling a carrot a plum, doesn't make it a plum. Our ground is now officially the Fox's Biscuits Stadium, but ask most fans and they will tell you it is Mount Pleasant. If the board said they are changing Batley's name to the Soothill Sharks for example, I can honestly say it wouldn't bother me one iota, it would always be Batley to me, like Huddersfield is still Fartown to lots of their fans, Bradford is still Northern to some of theirs. If the plan was to move the club away from the current ground in Sale to the other side of Manchester I could understand the reaction, but they aren't, so what does it matter? To be fair. I think a more accurate comparison would be Batley changing their name to Kirklees or if something happened to the Bulls changing their name to Bradford Bulldogs. Both would certainly give the Bulldogs a bigger target market but I imagine there would be some opposition from a some backward thinking fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 20 minutes ago, fevtom said: To be fair. I think a more accurate comparison would be Batley changing their name to Kirklees or if something happened to the Bulls changing their name to Bradford Bulldogs. Both would certainly give the Bulldogs a bigger target market but I imagine there would be some opposition from a some backward thinking fans. I can't imagine many new people coming to watch "Kirklees". The same for naming the club after a separate city entirely such as Bradford. There are other and better ways than name changes to attract fans. Batley have a "pink" weekend for example and other initiatives, such as a game against a team made up of Asian players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegendOfTexEvans Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 13 hours ago, Bleep1673 said: As a disjointed supporter of a club that won 2 consecutive Championships when I was born, I disagree about a declining fan base, we have had the best support for 10 years, under the name of Swinton, we don't need a moniker that relates us to a city that does not have a Rugby team with that name of either code. Manchester as a title is a rubbish idea. I remember watching MANCHESTER STORM Ice hockey. with 8,000 in the Arena, now they are playing in front of 2,000 max in Altrincham, not far from Sale. Coincidence? Completely, agree. Manchester in Manchester works. Fake efforts are just going to fuel this myth you can't have Rugby League in Manchester. As someone who lives in Manchester the Grand Final is fairly high profile at the moment driving in and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLegendOfTexEvans Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 13 hours ago, The Future is League said: The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter now, as without Andy Mazey and former directors money going into the club Swinton are going to fold. Nobody with money will want to get involved with a club with insular fans. This would be the same group of insular fans who put their own money into saving the club a few years back into keeping the club going. The mistake they made then was keeping the board, should have insisted on a change of faces. Shiny new fans are great, but lets see if the likes of Toronto are there when the clubs hits hard times. You can have few members or customers as fans, not a good idea to confuse the two. Customers are not in it for the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fevtom Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 38 minutes ago, Niels said: I can't imagine many new people coming to watch "Kirklees". The same for naming the club after a separate city entirely such as Bradford. There are other and better ways than name changes to attract fans. Batley have a "pink" weekend for example and other initiatives, such as a game against a team made up of Asian players. I agree, I'm just being facetious. I think the Swinton name change is one of the more realistic name change/ merger suggestions but people seem to be in favour until it's their own club that's involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolton Leyther Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 11 hours ago, The Future is League said: But true I was referring to your characterisation of Swinton supporters as insular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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