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Swinton (Merged Threads)

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The club hasn't played in Swinton for approx 25 years. I can understand wanting to retain the Swinton name if there were realistic plans to move back into Swinton in the next few years, but lets face it, unless there's a closet billionaire Swinton fan lurking somewhere who decides to invest heavily in the club, the chances of them moving back into Swinton in another 25 years is currently virtually zero. How many years would they need to play outside Swinton to realise that being called Swinton doesn't really make sense anymore? 

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1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

What was the point of your post ?

we have to have a point? you should have said...

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Now the fans and the council can come together and show them how it's done.  😂

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With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

They're celebrating and telling all and sundry that they'd rather watch a pure club in the ... whatever amateur league they can think of ... than a rebranded Manchester Lions (Swinton) in any competition.

I mean, the chances of an amateur Swinton even making it to the start line of any competition are remote. But at least they've got their purity. And that's all that matters here.

With respect, it is all that matters. A sports club should exist for the benefit of its supporters. If a proper consultation had been conducted and the supporters were in favour of the name change then it's fine to press ahead. But it appears that there wasn't, and that it didn't have the supporters on board with the proposal. Any threats of violence, however, are unaccceptable.

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9 minutes ago, Bolton Leyther said:

With respect, it is all that matters. A sports club should exist for the benefit of its supporters. If a proper consultation had been conducted and the supporters were in favour of the name change then it's fine to press ahead. But it appears that there wasn't, and that it didn't have the supporters on board with the proposal. Any threats of violence, however, are unaccceptable.

I'm willing to bet that there were plenty of supporters happy to go along with it.

Just not the loud and violent ones.

It's fine, though. The door is open for anybody able to sort it all out.


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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55 minutes ago, Pyjamarama said:

The club hasn't played in Swinton for approx 25 years. I can understand wanting to retain the Swinton name if there were realistic plans to move back into Swinton in the next few years, but lets face it, unless there's a closet billionaire Swinton fan lurking somewhere who decides to invest heavily in the club, the chances of them moving back into Swinton in another 25 years is currently virtually zero. How many years would they need to play outside Swinton to realise that being called Swinton doesn't really make sense anymore? 

The Swinton name was being kept on the badge and in the official name of the club.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

plenty of supporters

Not a phrase normally associated with Swinton.


I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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Just now, Just Browny said:

Not a phrase normally associated with Swinton.

I'm a London fan, we can't cast stones.

But, if you prefer, a high proportion of Swinton fans ...


Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I'm willing to bet that there were plenty of supporters happy to go along with it.

Just not the loud and violent ones.

It's fine, though. The door is open for anybody able to sort it all out.

I think you’re underestimating the disillusionment that was created when the promised wider consultation exercise didn’t take place.

The Swinton Lions Supporters Trust wrote an open letter to the board that was conciliatory and measured, requesting more dialogue.

It seems to me that the more moderate voices were not taken on board enough when people were suggesting compromise.

 

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3 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I think you’re underestimating the disillusionment that was created when the promised wider consultation exercise didn’t take place.

The Swinton Lions Supporters Trust wrote an open letter to the board that was conciliatory and measured, requesting more dialogue.

It seems to me that the more moderate voices were not taken on board enough when people were suggesting compromise.

 

That's fine. Maybe I am. And I've been involved in enough botched consultation exercises to know they can cause issues.

But ... and I could be wrong ... given the board, the only people I understand willing to put money into Swinton, wanted to rename the club Manchester and the Trust wanted to keep it Swinton, there was a compromise of calling the club Manchester but keeping Swinton on the badge and in the official name ... what else would dialogue achieve? At some point a decision is needed. You can talk forever.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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22 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Rather than a childish attempt at an insult 

Take a valium mate

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7 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

That's fine. Maybe I am. And I've been involved in enough botched consultation exercises to know they can cause issues.

But ... and I could be wrong ... given the board, the only people I understand willing to put money into Swinton, wanted to rename the club Manchester and the Trust wanted to keep it Swinton, there was a compromise of calling the club Manchester but keeping Swinton on the badge and in the official name ... what else would dialogue achieve? At some point a decision is needed. You can talk forever.

But that’s the point, the talking hadn’t even begun in terms of a wider consultation.

I think many felt, even on both sides of the divide, that this is an area that could have been handled better.

Ultimately the board could have pointed to the results of the consultation and taken it forward from there.

 

Edited by Gerrumonside ref

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6 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

But that’s the point, the talking hadn’t even begun in terms of a wider consultation.

I think many felt, even on both sides of the divide, that this is an area that could have been handled better.

Ultimately the board could have pointed to the results of the consultation and taken it forward from there.

 

My hunch is that the board looked at the balance sheet and knew something had to be done and done quickly.

Like I say, I’m not convinced they were 100% right but I think they understand that it’s a dire situation that needs a radical approach.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 hour ago, Bolton Leyther said:

With respect, it is all that matters. A sports club should exist for the benefit of its supporters. If a proper consultation had been conducted and the supporters were in favour of the name change then it's fine to press ahead. But it appears that there wasn't, and that it didn't have the supporters on board with the proposal. Any threats of violence, however, are unaccceptable.

A sports club may well exist for the benefit of its supporters, but not entirely for their benefit.  It has a responsibility to the game, too, and to it's financers, sponsors,  players etc. A sports club has a responsibility to do  its best for ALL stakeholders. If that means changing the name it plays under in order to attract new money, new sponsors,  new players and above all, new supporters, that is what they must do. The club's responsibility  to a segment of fans is not the top responsibility 

Edited by JohnM
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Four legs good - two legs bad

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47 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

My hunch is that the board looked at the balance sheet and knew something had to be done and done quickly.

Like I say, I’m not convinced they were 100% right but I think they understand that it’s a dire situation that needs a radical approach.

it was a gamble that backfired, probably realised season ticket sales were going to collapse if they carried on with the name change.

the story hit the sun too soon.

 

Edited by TheLegendOfTexEvans
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12 minutes ago, JohnM said:

A sports club may well exist for the benefit of its supporters, but not entirely for their benefit.  It has a responsibility to the game, too, and to it's financers, sponsors,  players etc. A sports club has a responsibility to do  its best for ALL stakeholders. If that means changing the name it plays under in order to attract new money, new sponsors,  new players and above all, new supporters, that is what they must do. The club's responsibility  to a segment of fans is not the top responsibility 

A sports club has responsibilities, to its players it's the responsibility to pay them and to ensure their welfare is protected, and to its sponsors it's the responsibility of ensuring that it does nothing to bring the sponsors' association with it into question.

But its existence has to be solely to the benefit of its supporters. That's the point of a sports club (at least, a non-amateur one anyway). It shouldn't be a controversial thing to argue.

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2 hours ago, Pyjamarama said:

The club hasn't played in Swinton for approx 25 years. I can understand wanting to retain the Swinton name if there were realistic plans to move back into Swinton in the next few years, but lets face it, unless there's a closet billionaire Swinton fan lurking somewhere who decides to invest heavily in the club, the chances of them moving back into Swinton in another 25 years is currently virtually zero. How many years would they need to play outside Swinton to realise that being called Swinton doesn't really make sense anymore? 

So calling the club Manchester and playing in Trafford is going to help?


Sex and Money are like Oxygen

They're not important until you're not getting enough.

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19 minutes ago, Bolton Leyther said:

A sports club has responsibilities, to its players it's the responsibility to pay them and to ensure their welfare is protected, and to its sponsors it's the responsibility of ensuring that it does nothing to bring the sponsors' association with it into question.

But its existence has to be solely to the benefit of its supporters. That's the point of a sports club (at least, a non-amateur one anyway). It shouldn't be a controversial thing to argue.

I'd have thought the continued existence of the club would be of benefit to supporters, and if change would be needed in order secure that,  then so be it.

We are now going to find out how seriously the supporters take their own responsibilities


Four legs good - two legs bad

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6 minutes ago, Henson Park Old Firm said:

Just build a stadium in Swinton already..

Yeah, that'll be easy


"I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel"

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8 minutes ago, Bleep1673 said:

So calling the club Manchester and playing in Trafford is going to help?

Yes. No one cares what local govt.administrative  entity hosts the club. 


Four legs good - two legs bad

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5 hours ago, Krzzystuff said:

lol this is honestly a depressing website/forum. Haven't been on because I've been busy and after briefly talking to k-man at the last game I thought I'd come back. Nothing positive has come to my life the past two days.

A great game like this doesn't deserve to have fans like it does, deserves so much better.

Stay involved and show leadership through positivity.

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Maybe they did some market research among residents of Manchester, and realised that the overall number of Mancunians was not going to cover the Swintonians who would walk away, and this isn't about holding the sport back, or holding on to the past, how would Castleford fans react to being called Wakefield Tigers, because that's the Met Borough they play in?, Or Leigh fans to being called Wigan Centurions, Halifax being called Calderdale, Bradford Cougars instead of Keighley, Allerdale Town, Workington fans? Copeland, Haven fans, or maybe merge the two, Copedale.

As St Helens is in Merseyside, maybe they could move to Liverpool, and be their franchise the RFL wants there?

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Sex and Money are like Oxygen

They're not important until you're not getting enough.

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