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So after the drama of last night, we get to the business end of the season.

Wigan vs Salford (Qualifier) next at the DW followed by Warrington vs Castleford (Eliminator) at the HJ.

Should be two good games. Looking forward to them.

Winner of the qualifier has the joy of going to Saints and the loser up again the winner of the Eliminator. Do enjoy this format; always my preferred option.

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I agree.

Watching the NRL play off's yesterday and this morning, the top 8 works well over there because of the consistent quality across the league (maybe at least until the very bottom).

Over here the 5 works well. It rewards teams for finishing higher up the table and the games are harder to call as all the competing teams are a good quality.

Can't wait to see how the next three weeks unfold in both hemispheres. 

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Yes it far better. For example, 4th placed Warrington had to beat 1st away last year to reach Old Trafford.

This year, if results go by league position, they have to beat 5th at home, 3rd away and 2nd away to get there.

The top 5 gives a reward for each higher position.

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Just now, Chris22 said:

Yes it far better. For example, 4th placed Warrington had to beat 1st away last year to reach Old Trafford.

This year, if results go by league position, they have to beat 5th at home, 3rd away and 2nd away to get there.

The top 5 gives a reward for each higher position.

Yep - far fairer for your regular season performances.

Out of interest, are SL doing the same 'home' fixture format as the Championship i.e. the higher placed finisher is always at home in the Preliminary Final even if they have been beaten at home in the Qualifying Final?

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12 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Yep - far fairer for your regular season performances.

Out of interest, are SL doing the same 'home' fixture format as the Championship i.e. the higher placed finisher is always at home in the Preliminary Final even if they have been beaten at home in the Qualifying Final?

I hope not, because it's stupid. If Toronto get beat by Toulouse next week, they shouldn't get a home final should they reach out. They lost that chance by losing.

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1 minute ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I hope not, because it's stupid. If Toronto get beat by Toulouse next week, they shouldn't get a home final should they reach out. They lost that chance by losing.

Completely agree. It's the only fault in this system so far this season at Championship level IMO.

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It is a shame that Wire and Cas rather limped over the finishing line, hopefully they can regather and play their part in the playoffs.

The system is far better, the best we have used 

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I am ok with the highest placed team staying at home. This system delivers better rewards the higher up the table you finish and surely that's a good thing to inspire a competitive regular season.

Edited by Dunbar
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Never been a fan of this system, for a number of reasons - although I do agree it is good that it rewards higher finishes in the table.

Reasons I'm not a fan:

1. I don't like the fact that you can see the same game several times, it makes some of the early games feel a bit meh cos you're likely to see them again a bit later in the system, even to the point of "what's the point of winning this one?" e.g. the Toulouse vs York game today - is it really a reward to win that game?

2. The complexity! Have you ever tried explaining this system to anyone? It does take some effort to get your head round it. One good thing I've seen in the latest publications though is getting rid of the confusing finals and semi-finals labels used previously (maybe they make sense in Australia?). The use of "qualifier", "eliminator" and "semi-final" is much better.

3. I'm not sold on the second chances. If you're having play-offs/finals footy, it feels to me like part of the point is the games should be knock-out. Teams losing but then having another go the next week feels a bit of a damp squib to me.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, mrfranco said:

The complexity! Have you ever tried explaining this system to anyone?

Don't bother just say it's a brilliant way to finish the season with all the excitement and passion that goes the top quality playing the top.

My only grudge against it is that the prize for finishing third is a trip to Wigan.


“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”    

 

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33 minutes ago, mrfranco said:

Never been a fan of this system, for a number of reasons - although I do agree it is good that it rewards higher finishes in the table.

Reasons I'm not a fan:

1. I don't like the fact that you can see the same game several times, it makes some of the early games feel a bit meh cos you're likely to see them again a bit later in the system, even to the point of "what's the point of winning this one?" e.g. the Toulouse vs York game today - is it really a reward to win that game?

2. The complexity! Have you ever tried explaining this system to anyone? It does take some effort to get your head round it. One good thing I've seen in the latest publications though is getting rid of the confusing finals and semi-finals labels used previously (maybe they make sense in Australia?). The use of "qualifier", "eliminator" and "semi-final" is much better.

3. I'm not sold on the second chances. If you're having play-offs/finals footy, it feels to me like part of the point is the games should be knock-out. Teams losing but then having another go the next week feels a bit of a damp squib to me.

 

 

I think these are valid criticisms - especially the one on complexity.  But I do think the complexity is what allows it to be a pretty good reward for finishing further up the table... with the second chance being one of those rewards.

Duplicate fixtures can occur but not 'several times' the most two teams could play each other in the system is twice isn't it?

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As a system it works , you eliminate one club per round 

Without too big a gap between games for the best qualifyers

Edited by GUBRATS

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5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I think these are valid criticisms - especially the one on complexity.  But I do think the complexity is what allows it to be a pretty good reward for finishing further up the table... with the second chance being one of those rewards.

Duplicate fixtures can occur but not 'several times' the most two teams could play each other in the system is twice isn't it?

Yes, twice indeed. Though it may happen to a couple of fixtures... e.g. to use this year's Championship again...

I fully expect to see Toulouse v York, then TWP v Toulouse, then Toulouse v York, then TWP v Toulouse. This def gives me at least something of a feeling of "what's the point?" to the initial versions of those games

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8 minutes ago, mrfranco said:

Yes, twice indeed. Though it may happen to a couple of fixtures... e.g. to use this year's Championship again...

I fully expect to see Toulouse v York, then TWP v Toulouse, then Toulouse v York, then TWP v Toulouse. This def gives me at least something of a feeling of "what's the point?" to the initial versions of those games

Yes, fair enough.  But we could see a run from the 4th or 5th placed team in their sudden death games and that would be great to see.

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2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

As a system it works , you eliminate one club per round 

Without too big a gap between games for the best qualifyers

My preference, of course, but I'd rather see something like:

Week 1: 3 v 6, 4 v 5

Week 2: 1 v 4/5, 2 v 3/6

Week 3: Grand Final

Knock-out football all the way, while still rewarding higher finishes with home games and an easier path to the final. 

 

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18 minutes ago, mrfranco said:

My preference, of course, but I'd rather see something like:

Week 1: 3 v 6, 4 v 5

Week 2: 1 v 4/5, 2 v 3/6

Week 3: Grand Final

Knock-out football all the way, while still rewarding higher finishes with home games and an easier path to the final. 

Not really a reward for finishing 1/2 in that format. Instantly knocked out if they lose that 1 x game. 

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57 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Not really a reward for finishing 1/2 in that format. Instantly knocked out if they lose that 1 x game. 

Yep , not enough benefit there for a season of toil 

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1 hour ago, GeordieSaint said:

Not really a reward for finishing 1/2 in that format. Instantly knocked out if they lose that 1 x game. 

Yes they are instantly knocked out if they lose - that's knock-out football, which for me is how play-offs should be.

As for the reward for finishing 1 or 2... you get a week off and a home semi-final (whereas 3 & 4 get a home quarter-final then an away semi-final, and 5 & 6 have to win 2 away games against the top teams to reach the final)

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On 14/09/2019 at 15:30, Chris22 said:

Yes it far better. For example, 4th placed Warrington had to beat 1st away last year to reach Old Trafford.

Ah, ‘‘twas no biggie.. 😘

On 14/09/2019 at 18:10, Oxford said:

My only grudge against it is that the prize for finishing third is a trip to Wigan.

True, but apparently the punishment for finishing 12th is to spend a whole week there 😁 Do you think it’s an accident that Warrington have never finished bottom of the table in our history? 😉 *

 

 

 

*I also accept the irony of my little joke in that Warrington haven’t finished top too many times either 😊 Well, not when it wins prizes anyway.

Edited by Cheshire Setter

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On 14/09/2019 at 18:51, GeordieSaint said:

Not really a reward for finishing 1/2 in that format. Instantly knocked out if they lose that 1 x game. 

Correct.  This is the whole point of the hubcap.

Mr MacIntyre worked out all the odds mathematically. 

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The Aussie fans really love the play offs - 4 games averaged well over 20k per game this weekend. Will Wigan V Salford and Warrington v Cas get anywhere near 20k combined? Sadly, I'm going for about 8k at each. 

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14 minutes ago, Scubby said:

The Aussie fans really love the play offs - 4 games averaged well over 20k per game this weekend. Will Wigan V Salford and Warrington v Cas get anywhere near 20k combined? Sadly, I'm going for about 8k at each. 

8k for Warrington v Cas would be desperately poor for a knockout game. 

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30 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

8k for Warrington v Cas would be desperately poor for a knockout game. 

Well recent history has shown that is what it will be. Wigan fans also refuse to turn out for play off games.

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36 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

8k for Warrington v Cas would be desperately poor for a knockout game. 

 

5 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Well recent history has shown that is what it will be. Wigan fans also refuse to turn out for play off games.

From memory when I looked at this last time the top 5 playoffs delivered decent crowds (relatively speaking), sadly I think we have damaged the playoff concept in this country with the move to 8 teams and just following the NRL system, which ain't good.

I just hope we havent damaged them irreparably.

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10 hours ago, Dave T said:

From memory when I looked at this last time the top 5 playoffs delivered decent crowds (relatively speaking), sadly I think we have damaged the playoff concept in this country with the move to 8 teams and just following the NRL system, which ain't good.

I just hope we havent damaged them irreparably.

Agreed - lots of work to be done. But this structure has to be given chance to work. Incentivise people to attend.

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