19 Sept: SL Elimination Final: Warrington Wolves v Castleford Tigers KO 7.45pm (TV)

[Kenilworth Tiger]

Gale, Shenton, Foster, Mceeken, Jesse, Moors, Massey and Eden would probably have all started that game so makes the win look even more impressive.

[Trojan]

11 hours ago, Dave T said:

We wont be the only low crowd in the playoffs, although a Friday night will help tomorrow's.

But the entertainment value issue at the HJ shouldn't be understated.

The answer to the crowd problems is not to play trans Pennine games on a work night.  I'm sure the crowd for the Leigh - Fev game would have been larger had it not KO'd at 6-30 on a Sunday evening.   But he who pays the piper etc.  Nevertheless these are important games and for me should  kick off at 3-00 on Sunday afternoons.  We'll see if the York - Fev crowd improves for kicking off at a civilised hour.

[Angelic Cynic]

52 minutes ago, Trojan said:

The answer to the crowd problems is not to play trans Pennine games on a work night.  I'm sure the crowd for the Leigh - Fev game would have been larger had it not KO'd at 6-30 on a Sunday evening.   But he who pays the piper etc.  Nevertheless these are important games and for me should  kick off at 3-00 on Sunday afternoons.  We'll see if the York - Fev crowd improves for kicking off at a civilised hour.

  Followers of the sport - especially those of us who follow the game outside of Super League - were informed that Super League must retain the money from the broadcasting deal because they are the Super product that everyone wants to see and they - those who pay the money for the broadcasting deal - want to see full stadia.

 The play offs involving the elite from the elite league are not proving that they play at their best in the best attended games.

 The best broadcasts,this year,have mainly involved clubs outside of Super League.There is no doubt that York v Featherstone will attract a good attendance.

  Not all Super League games will be played at the same time to maximise attendances and viewers.How would that work...?

[Trojan]

1 minute ago, Angelic Cynic said:

  Followers of the sport - especially those of us who follow the game outside of Super League - were informed that Super League must retain the money from the broadcasting deal because they are the Super product that everyone wants to see and they - those who pay the money for the broadcasting deal - want to see full stadia.

 The play offs involving the elite from the elite league are not proving that they play at their best in the best attended games.

 The best broadcasts,this year,have mainly involved clubs outside of Super League.There is no doubt that York v Featherstone will attract a good attendance.

  Not all Super League games will be played at the same time to maximise attendances and viewers.How would that work...?

Games can be played on Saturday afternoon (Like York v Fev)  K O times can be staggered.  Noon on Saturday say. Noon on Sunday followed by 3-00.  If it's Cas v Hudds, or Cas v Leeds, no problem with a work night.  But not Saints v Hull (or KR) on a work night.  Surely even Sky want to see full stadiums. Perhaps the big bash could be converted into first round play off games.

[Angelic Cynic]

2 minutes ago, Trojan said:

Games can be played on Saturday afternoon (Like York v Fev)  K O times can be staggered.  Noon on Saturday say. Noon on Sunday followed by 3-00.  If it's Cas v Hudds, or Cas v Leeds, no problem with a work night.  But not Saints v Hull (or KR) on a work night.  Surely even Sky want to see full stadiums. Perhaps the big bash could be converted into first round play off games.

  You may have a problem with shared football stadia - York,Hull FC  and Wigan spring to mind for this year.

  As alluded to on another thread - maybe the Play-offs aren't the way ahead.

[phiggins]

Only saw the last 15 minutes of this game. The decision to go for the 2 from inside their own half was a particular brainfart from Warrington. Smacked of desperation.

[Ullman]

13 hours ago, Kenilworth Tiger said:

Well it wasn’t pretty but I’m over the moon. Great defensive effort - not sure how Rankin didn’t get in the man of match voting either

The main flaw in his game was exposed a couple of times when he didn't fancy those high kicks but fortune was on his side and he was outstanding apart from that. Always liked him. He's a really wholehearted, tireless individual.  

[Ullman]

13 hours ago, Dave T said:

I must admit I thought it was a decent enough game. I thought some of the negativity (from neutrals) was OTT.

Held my interest because of the closeness of the score and what was at stake.

But it was no Leigh v Featherstone.

[GeordieSaint]

3 hours ago, Kenilworth Tiger said:

Gale, Shenton, Foster, Mceeken, Jesse, Moors, Massey and Eden would probably have all started that game so makes the win look even more impressive.

Agreed. 

I enjoyed the match. Yep, there were a few mistakes on both sides but it was still an absorbing match, that went down to the wire. Despite missing many key personnel, Cas were the better team and deserved the win. More adventurous in attack and showed a great desire in defence. 

Too old game next week at Wigan/Salford but they did you proud last night and they’ll give it a good crack next week.

[Liverpool Rover]

Cas showed real character to win that one with so many players missing. Warrington made too many errors and while I thought that they would win yesterday I didn't think that they would go any further than next week after they somehow managed to finish fourth in a two horse race at the top of the league. Price needs to let them off the leash and not have them play such a structured game.

[Dave T]

7 hours ago, Liverpool Rover said:

Cas showed real character to win that one with so many players missing. Warrington made too many errors and while I thought that they would win yesterday I didn't think that they would go any further than next week after they somehow managed to finish fourth in a two horse race at the top of the league. Price needs to let them off the leash and not have them play such a structured game.

It is quite clear that despite being useless in 2 finals last year and collapsing spectacularly in SL thisbyear that Price doesn't have it in himself to focus on anything but percentages and process.

Boring. Boring. Boring. People make excuses when you do it well enough to win, but the 5.6k crowd last night should send a message to the bosses at Wire.

This is meant to be entertainment. Price is not the man for Warrington. Nobody will convince me otherwise. 

[Trojan]

I thought it was an arm wrestle of a game. Tough and uncompromising on both sides. Toss of a coin for  the winner.  Some very hard tackles going in. Old fashioned RL.  I enjoyed it.  Obviously not as much as Leigh v Fev, but then I'm a Fev fan.

[Cheshire Setter]

11 hours ago, Dave T said:

It is quite clear that despite being useless in 2 finals last year and collapsing spectacularly in SL thisbyear that Price doesn't have it in himself to focus on anything but percentages and process.

The thing that gets me is that last year we lacked a cutting edge but got to both finals through a resilient defence.

The first half of this year we were fantastic in attack at times, so we know that this team have it in them. We even displaced Saints at the top for one or two weeks didn’t we?  I’m not exactly sure why we suddenly dropped off spectacularly but it can’t have been fatigue, despite what Price says about the number of games. It happened too early.

He doesn’t seem to be able to see where we are going wrong, and I fear he’s getting a little too close to his playing group. The first warning signs of problems are when coaches regurgitate the same tag lines each week after a defeat. You sort of know it’s the start of the end. With Smith it was ‘we’ve trained well all week’ and with Price it’s ‘I know what type of group of players I’ve got here’. 

There’s nothing wrong with playing simple, structured rugby as long as when you’re in possession on the opposition line you can actually string some set plays together. We did it fantastically with Ratchford, Patton and Austin early on so there’s no reason why we had to revert to putting up a bomb on almost every last play for the second half of the season. I just don’t get it.

[absentee thoughtlord]

As a Warrington supporter, the second half of the season has been an ordeal.

Never, since I started watching in 1979, have a seen a more turgid, dispassionate, 5 drives and a boot, team than this (notable exception: CC final).

The side of the early 90's would rinse this one (even with all their modern 'conditioning').

And if Price uses the brain-dead term 'footy' once again I'll...dunno

 

[Dave T]

Let's be brutally honest, we got some good results early in the year but we had a lot of games where we should have been winning easily, but ultimately won them due to a star like Clark or Austin breaking the game. 

I rather think we benefited hugely from a lot of teams struggling early on, look at the mess Wigan and Leeds were in early on for example. Once these teams sorted themselves out suddenly we weren't up to scratch. Even the games we did win were won through grinding out results - both the semi final and final of the cup were great wins, but we weren't scoring from flowing Rugby. 

Tactically we are poor, with negative options being taken time and time again 

[Damien]

So are Warrington fans saying this is all down to the coach? They still have some quality players, maybe not as strong a squad as 5 years ago but still a strong squad none the less.

[Dave T]

49 minutes ago, Damien said:

So are Warrington fans saying this is all down to the coach? They still have some quality players, maybe not as strong a squad as 5 years ago but still a strong squad none the less.

I am saying that definitely. 

I've said for over 12m Price ain't the right man imho, but conscious I am a bit of an outlier on that front I think.

[ELBOWSEYE]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I am saying that definitely. 

I've said for over 12m Price ain't the right man imho, but conscious I am a bit of an outlier on that front I think.

Looking from seeing them week in week out I think the squad is not as good as it looked on paper, the pack hasn't performed well enough overall apart from a few games, currie and Hughes have not reached their previous levels and three class players have help paper over the cracks, and that is regardless of who the coach is. The cup run has given Price some space and time ,using a basic paired back plan succeeded against Hull and Saints and the whole team performed. For next season it will be intersting if he strengthens the pack ,the attack should improve with Widdop .

[The Future is League]

A terrible crowd of just over 5,600 is very poor for 2 heartland teams

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/sep/19/warrington-castleford-super-league-play-off-match-report

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Looking from seeing them week in week out I think the squad is not as good as it looked on paper, the pack hasn't performed well enough overall apart from a few games, currie and Hughes have not reached their previous levels and three class players have help paper over the cracks, and that is regardless of who the coach is. The cup run has given Price some space and time ,using a basic paired back plan succeeded against Hull and Saints and the whole team performed. For next season it will be intersting if he strengthens the pack ,the attack should improve with Widdop .

I'm less concerned about the forwards, Clarke I think made the point the other night that it is very rare that we end up losing the territory battle. We are good at making the yards in the forwards and hold the opposition in defence. But time and again we have failed to do anything with it in the backs. We have seen times where we have had a decent roll on and finished the set by rolling the ball in touch. We have seen us on top and then going for goal from a penalty. We even did that from 51m the other night! We are letting teams off the hook all of the time. 

Strike players are ineffective, Currie is toothless at the moment and our centres offer very limited returns in open play with the ball. BMS is doing little, it is like we have forgotten how to use these players. 

Our game plan seems really old fashioned to me, and whilst good players will win you the odd thing here and there, these tactics are so limited I struggle to see where we are going to improve.

The biggest frustration I have is when Price was questioned about our misfiring attack he just got defensive and said it is fine and we had the 2nd best attack so no issue. Last week he said our issues are easily fixed. Talk like that should see you out of a job when you then cant fix these easy problems. He seems a nice enough bloke, but that ain't necessarily what I want as head coach.

[Gates1]

2 hours ago, The Future is League said:

A terrible crowd of just over 5,600 is very poor for 2 heartland teams

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/sep/19/warrington-castleford-super-league-play-off-match-report

Decent away support, 750+ traveling on a Thursday night for a tv game. Home attendance seems oddly low.

[The Future is League]

12 hours ago, Gates1 said:

Decent away support, 750+ traveling on a Thursday night for a tv game. Home attendance seems oddly low.

Food for thought that Toronto got over 9,300 for their game against Toulouse with no away fans

[Gates1]

37 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

Food for thought that Toronto got over 9,300 for their game against Toulouse with no away fans

Yeah Impressive.  Obviously factors like day of game and admission prices (don't know what is charged by Toronto) impact.  But if that kind of level can be sustained it would be extremely impressive, with that and Argyles money they will be a force to be reckoned with in SL.

For me the SL play off games should all be Friday or Saturday night.  Even if it means moving a championship play off game to Thursday to fill sky's schedule.  Although sky probably wouldn't agree!

[The Future is League]

8 minutes ago, Gates1 said:

Yeah Impressive.  Obviously factors like day of game and admission prices (don't know what is charged by Toronto) impact.  But if that kind of level can be sustained it would be extremely impressive, with that and Argyles money they will be a force to be reckoned with in SL.

For me the SL play off games should all be Friday or Saturday night.  Even if it means moving a championship play off game to Thursday to fill sky's schedule.  Although sky probably wouldn't agree!

There average crowd for this season has been over 8,000.

You would agree that if they win the Championship Grand Final and are refused a Super League place that Rugby League would be the laughing stock of British sport

[Gates1]

1 hour ago, The Future is League said:

There average crowd for this season has been over 8,000.

You would agree that if they win the Championship Grand Final and are refused a Super League place that Rugby League would be the laughing stock of British sport

I tend to avoid getting too involvrd in regurlar expansion or not debates.  However, assuming due diligence is met and the logistics are manageable they should take their place in SL. 

Not sure about a laughing stock of British sport though.  There are clear difficulties with admitting a team from a different continent, and it's hardly common place in British sport.

It's also a Canadian Team without any North American players (which is understandable considering it's infancy) so hopefully Toronto are investing/planning to invest in developing North American players, albeit something which isn't an easy or short term task.