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Cheap tickets and empty stadiums


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4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I dont think you can compare a competition that has existed for a couple of years as the 4th most important trophy for club RU with the Challenge CUp and super league play-offs. 

It doesn't matter is you like it or not, the Premiership Rugby Cup is the equivalent of Challenge Cup.

Anyway, we seem to be a little off topic.

I will end our little chat by saying I admire your ambition (and share it under slightly different circumstances) but the Super League play off's are not the product to take to new markets because the uncertainty of the product.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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If we’re serious about targeting places for growth, there would need to be a strategic plan in place. 

Personally, I know we’ve had Magic here before but the North East is still a growth area. In 2021 the area (Middlesbrough and Newcastle) will play host to Rugby League World Cup games. That’s the pinnacle of the sport so the short-term goal should be centred around filling those venues, not just with existing RL fans but aiming to get a good percentage of the stadia filled with locals.

Between now and then, the World Cup Trophy, development officers, Super League players from countries that will be playing in the North East, mascots, Newcastle Thunder representatives and coaches of local junior clubs should be in schools all the time. You also need to get into pubs, villages fetes, festivals etc in that region to give the game a push. 

Magic for 2020 and 2021 should go back to Newcastle and a Super League game should be pushed and held at Newcastle Thunder or the Riverside in Middlesbrough to give a taster of what to expect. 

The aim should be a full, or near full, stadiums for the World Cup and progression in terms of playing numbers for junior sides. The work shouldn’t end in 2021, that should just be when it starts. 

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44 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Then its a question of scale isnt it. 

I wouldnt be expecting to go in to this and sell 40k tickets year one. Maybe 5-10k + then the fans of the clubs actually competing give us a good base to work from. 

Its interesting you mention the challenge cup because it would do the same with that. Take the televised rounds to the people. 

Target some strategic cities, lets say Nottingham, Leicester and Milton Keynes. Give them 2 or 3 televised Challenge cup games each and a game or two in the play-offs. It doesnt matter who is playing get out there and sell rugby league. Take the game to them and see where we are in 5 years 

We would get a much bigger return (not just financial) from taking the game to these places than saturating Warrington with another game and nobody bothering to watch

I agree with this.

Let's be honest, we couldn't really do much worse than last night could we? Surely, with a proper plan developed 12 months in advance, SL - in conjunction with a local council - could sell more than 5.5K tickets in a major conurbation for the Elimination Final?

They'd need to choose the right stadiums though - not huge great places where it's going to look empty, but rather a decent 10K capacity football stadium in place that we think there might be a genuine opportunity to grow RL in future. Would it really have been less attractive to the Castleford fans who braved the M62 on Thursday night, to have to drive to Nottingham or Leicester? I doubt it would have taken much longer, and would have 'novelty value' if nothing else.

We kept getting told there were loads of cities that wanted games in the RL World Cup and multiple cities that are interested in Magic. Well, why not choose a few of those cities and work with them to promote some of these play off games as 'events'?

What have we got to lose? 

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15 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Despite the cheap tickets on offer the Halliwell Jones Stadium is almost empty, I expect it will be the same at the DW Stadium tomorrow.

Expanding the Play Offs from 3 games to 6 games seems like a poor decision from Robert Elstone. We should go back to 1 v 4 and 2 v 3 then the Grand Final.

We could use the 2 weeks it’d take off the season to play a mid season international or two. 

Then you would just have a normal Final, not a Grand Final.

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2 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

Agreed its a total no brainer for me, the playoff games need to somehow be included in the ST, people are always going to be more inclined to attend if they have already paid for it it really is that simple, the more difficult thing is how to do it, could there also be a way to include away playoff games in a home ST? infant could there be a way for clubs to sell full ST where all away games are included? not sure how it would work on a practical level but I would be interested in one if the clubs could do it, I've only missed one away game this season and I suspect there's a few fans that are similar to me, although in fairness I don't have children to consider and my wife is quite happy to get rid of me for one night during the week throughout the season ?

ST should have 2 play off games included (15 match ticket) if not in play offs a rebate on following season of 1 or 2 games. Not rocket science!

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32 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

If we’re serious about targeting places for growth, there would need to be a strategic plan in place. 

Personally, I know we’ve had Magic here before but the North East is still a growth area. In 2021 the area (Middlesbrough and Newcastle) will play host to Rugby League World Cup games. That’s the pinnacle of the sport so the short-term goal should be centred around filling those venues, not just with existing RL fans but aiming to get a good percentage of the stadia filled with locals.

Between now and then, the World Cup Trophy, development officers, Super League players from countries that will be playing in the North East, mascots, Newcastle Thunder representatives and coaches of local junior clubs should be in schools all the time. You also need to get into pubs, villages fetes, festivals etc in that region to give the game a push. 

Magic for 2020 and 2021 should go back to Newcastle and a Super League game should be pushed and held at Newcastle Thunder or the Riverside in Middlesbrough to give a taster of what to expect. 

The aim should be a full, or near full, stadiums for the World Cup and progression in terms of playing numbers for junior sides. The work shouldn’t end in 2021, that should just be when it starts. 

Agreed, there is little point targeting places like Leicester and Northampton because Union is so strong there. Places like Newcastle, Sunderland and Middlesbrough don’t have a such a strong Union culture (yes I know the Falcons are there) and the Northern working class background of League might also appeal to some people. 

That said when we on here talk about targeting an area who are we expecting to do it, you need people prepared to invest in grassroots and the RFL certainly don’t have the money to do that and neither do the clubs. It’s much easier said than done. 

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There seems to be excuse after excuse for the decline in attendances. CC wrong time of year, not marketed properly etc etc. Play offs, wrong day, Man U at home, TV etc etc. Surely all clubs should get together & sort out a plan that works for all. The overall attendances are well down on a decade ago with no sign of an upturn. SL probably averages about 8k, championship about 2k, league 1 about 800. TV will only pay megabucks for a sport that looks popular with full grounds. Football has tv companies queuing up for the contract. Who is competition sky for SL? Not many I think

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32 minutes ago, kev p said:

There seems to be excuse after excuse for the decline in attendances. CC wrong time of year, not marketed properly etc etc. Play offs, wrong day, Man U at home, TV etc etc. Surely all clubs should get together & sort out a plan that works for all. The overall attendances are well down on a decade ago with no sign of an upturn. SL probably averages about 8k, championship about 2k, league 1 about 800. TV will only pay megabucks for a sport that looks popular with full grounds. Football has tv companies queuing up for the contract. Who is competition sky for SL? Not many I think

While I agree that the attendance last night was very disappointing, I don't think we can simply say that attendances are well down on a decade ago.

In 2009 there were two play off games with attendances under 5k (at Wakefield and Huddersfield) while the St Helens vs. Huddersfield game attracted just over 6k.  The average attendances over the play off's i 2009 (excluding the Grand Final) was 8,624.  It will be interesting to see how this compares to this year after we play through the whole system.

As for the Championship.  From what I can see from Wikipedia, aggregate attendance in 2009 was 217,362 while this year it is 428,570.  I would say that is a success.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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15 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Where the playoffs always this poorly attended? I remember it being really noticeable when we moved to top 8, but I'm sure the playoffs before that were fairly well attended?

That's my recollection as well. Before the top 8 attendances seemed to be decent but then we moved to the top 8 format which IMO did a lot of damage to the playoff concept. They were deeply unpopular and I think turned a lot of people off playoffs, especially the years when neither of the top 2 made the Grand Final and all the uproar that caused and Leeds followed it up by winning the title from 5th again.

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TV is a big factor.

When people buy their season tickets they know most of those games won't be live on TV. They are then asked to go out and buy another ticket for a game that they know will definitely be on TV - I can imagine that influences quite a lot of fans. Unfortunately there's absolutely nothing we can do about that.

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14 minutes ago, Industria ditat said:

TV is a big factor.

When people buy their season tickets they know most of those games won't be live on TV. They are then asked to go out and buy another ticket for a game that they know will definitely be on TV - I can imagine that influences quite a lot of fans. Unfortunately there's absolutely nothing we can do about that.

I’m sorry but that’s rubbish. If you’re a fan of Warrington, Saints, Leeds or Wigan, you know most of your games will be televised. 

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Some right rubbish posted on here , towards the end of the regular season we hear " why is everybody focusing on the relegation battle ? "  , then we have " why is everybody more interested in the middle 8s ? " , So we get rid of them , and no bigger turns up to watch the play offs 

We truly are in a mess 

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ST prices seem very cheap to me compared with premier league football, if you can get one. A play off place is what you work for all season, then interest goes, should be the other way round! Can’t understand it myself. Be interesting what grand final attendance will be, after excuses for CC final. It’s same ground, same time of year & likely same team or two. If GF attendance is poor, we have a serious problem. 

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16 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Time, not to buy the ticket but attend the game. 

People have lives. We are expecting people on Saturday to decide they are going to buy a ticket and attend the game on Thursday. Its not even a weeks notice. 

Qualifying for the play-offs isnt an achievement for most clubs, its a minimum expectation. If we had 30 clubs and clubs were only making the play-offs once every 3 or 4 years then people would attend, it would be an event. But Wire qualify for the play-offs most years, expected to qualify this year, it was no big deal that they did qualify and then there was only 5 days to sell tickets for a thursday night game. Its easy not to bother and watch on tv instead. 

 

None of that is Warringtons fault.  Every SL club has the same cut of TV money and they all have the same salary cap.  They all have the same chances to shine.

The dates for the play offs are known months in advance, and week by week the likely final placings are mapped out.  The fact that the final places were so competitive ought to be a bonus.

The problem is firstly Thursdays, second late nights... on any day, and the refusal to play on weekends both midday and afternoons. All of which mitigates against attendances.

Plus Wire fans clearly had got a gob on.  Warringtons much heralded marketing, and the odious "Wolfie", 8turns put to be an abject failure.

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Just had this email from the Giants (I must in the mailing list for some reason)

 

Huddersfield Giants Chairman Ken Davy has delivered a radical new approach to entice a future generation of Huddersfield Giants supporters by drastically reducing season card prices for under 30’s for the 2020 BetFred Super League season, on sale from this Monday at 9:30am

Ken Davy said “We have again decided to ensure that our season ticket prices are thebest value in the entire game, whilst in addition we have simplified and expanded our age brackets, with the objective of attracting new supporters, particularly the younger age group that the game game needs, as well as the Giants. 

"Clearly these prices are heavily subsidised and in pure economic terms not viable unless we can double our season ticket base. Nonetheless we feel it essential to continue to work to embed the Claret and Gold Giants into the hearts and minds of young supporters in greater numbers. In addition, our prices for all, remain the lowest in the game and even cheaper than Championship clubs who do not face the cost of running full time squads"

Ticket Prices

Adults (Over 30s) - £149/£10.64 per Match

Under 30s - £80/£5.71 per Match

 

 

£5.71 per match? The whole email sounds like desperation to me.

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16 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Utterly. 

It’s overly cheap but then you do have a lot of seats to fill.

The problem is they aren’t going to fill it, they’re just going to have the same amount of people paying less.

Market the product as a cheap throw away thing and people will think its a cheap throw away thing.

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9 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

The problem is they aren’t going to fill it, they’re just going to have the same amount of people paying less.

Market the product as a cheap throw away thing and people will think its a cheap throw away thing.

That is my feeling too. They could easily lose money over this with a few more fans but many more now paying less.

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1 minute ago, Clogiron said:

Just thought I would mention the Souths V Manly elimination game drew 32,000+ today with TV coverage ?

This is why a lot of the solutions are nonsense without addressing the culture we have (and have cultivated) here.

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2 minutes ago, fairfolly said:

£5.71 seems a lot to me to watch Huddersfield every week L.O.L.. Cheaper to buy a tin of paint and watch it dry.

I think you're being unfair to paint. if it's windy out the paint might splatter or something!

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