Cheap tickets and empty stadiums

[Chris22]

9,000 was more than I expected to be honest, probably boosted by a larger away following than expected.

I think we need to realise this is a game wide problem not an individual club problem.

[Sports Prophet]

Isn’t the whole reason season tickets do not gain finals access because the RFL are hosting the game rather than the home club?

I agree with a few others here that the following points all contribute to ###### finals crowds.

- Garbage promotion from the RFL 

- Inability of the RFL to sell the whole “Finals” concept

- Bending over for Sky by playing on a Thursday night

- Repetition of fixtures between two clubs and a lack of exclusivity

[Oliver Clothesoff]

I’m not advocating yet another structure change but I did see someone on social media suggest a new play-off approach of the league leaders of Super League gaining an automatic position in the Grand Final with 2 v 3 playing off for the remaining place in the Grand Final. The more I think about it, the more I think it puts a bit more meaning on finishing as league leaders. 

[Mr Plow]

8 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Isn’t the whole reason season tickets do not gain finals access because the RFL are hosting the game rather than the home club?

I agree with a few others here that the following points all contribute to ###### finals crowds.

- Garbage promotion from the RFL 

- Inability of the RFL to sell the whole “Finals” concept

- Bending over for Sky by playing on a Thursday night

- Repetition of fixtures between two clubs and a lack of exclusivity

RFL don’t run super league anymore. Super League run Super League. 

IMO too many games in the regular season kills the playoffs

[Gooleboy]

9 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Isn’t the whole reason season tickets do not gain finals access because the RFL are hosting the game rather than the home club?

I agree with a few others here that the following points all contribute to ###### finals crowds.

- Garbage promotion from the RFL 

- Inability of the RFL to sell the whole “Finals” concept

- Bending over for Sky by playing on a Thursday night

- Repetition of fixtures between two clubs and a lack of exclusivity

I thought SL, namely Mr Elstone and the Chairmen were now in charge?

[Rupert Prince]

2 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

I’m not advocating yet another structure change but I did see someone on social media suggest a new play-off approach of the league leaders of Super League gaining an automatic position in the Grand Final with 2 v 3 playing off for the remaining place in the Grand Final. The more I think about it, the more I think it puts a bit more meaning on finishing as league leaders. 

Certainly puts more meaning on 3rd! 

It also puts zero meaning on 5th. Not forgetting 6th.

[meast]

On ‎19‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 22:21, Chris22 said:

Then why don't people?

Because 

1) "it costs too much"

2)"It's Thursday night and I can't possibly venture out of the house because I have to be up for work 12 hours later"

3) "I'm not paying that much"

4) "I pay for SKY so why would I then pay again to watch it in the ground"

5) "It's not free!"

6) "I can't be bothered"

7) "I'm a Fairweather/glory supporter and we haven't been doing very well"

8 ) "It isn't part of my season ticket so I won't attend games I have to actually buy a ticket for, unless it's a final" , see also 7)

9) "it's too cold"

10) " I have to be up the next morning so can't leave the house"

there's plenty of excuses RL fans will use to not support their clubs/games and then bemoan the fact that we are a small time sport who doesn't get the same treatment that football/RU gets etc etc 

[meast]

On ‎19‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 22:26, scotchy1 said:

Time, not to buy the ticket but attend the game. 

People have lives. We are expecting people on Saturday to decide they are going to buy a ticket and attend the game on Thursday. Its not even a weeks notice. 

Qualifying for the play-offs isnt an achievement for most clubs, its a minimum expectation. If we had 30 clubs and clubs were only making the play-offs once every 3 or 4 years then people would attend, it would be an event. But Wire qualify for the play-offs most years, expected to qualify this year, it was no big deal that they did qualify and then there was only 5 days to sell tickets for a thursday night game. Its easy not to bother and watch on tv instead. 

 

But by the same token, those same fans have lives through the regular season and manage to attend games, surely as a fan of a club involved in the play offs, you'll have some idea of the dates you're likely to play and arrange it accordingly.

It's hardly a weeks notice is it? the fixtures are set out at the start of the season, as a club involved in the play offs, you'll know you're playing this week, and why is a week a long time to decide whether to do something you've done all year without a problem?

[Oliver Clothesoff]

25 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Certainly puts more meaning on 3rd! 

It also puts zero meaning on 5th. Not forgetting 6th.

Should you be rewarding mediocrity like that? Cas have finished 22 points behind Saints and are in with a shout at winning the whole competition, frankly, that’s ludicrous. 

[Tommygilf]

11 minutes ago, meast said:

But by the same token, those same fans have lives through the regular season and manage to attend games, surely as a fan of a club involved in the play offs, you'll have some idea of the dates you're likely to play and arrange it accordingly.

It's hardly a weeks notice is it? the fixtures are set out at the start of the season, as a club involved in the play offs, you'll know you're playing this week, and why is a week a long time to decide whether to do something you've done all year without a problem?

I think there is a problem that we're asking people to pay at least circa £25 each on a one off for a product when that is around 10% of a season ticket. There is also the problem that this is the first round of potentially 3 and then the grand final. People nearly going to be paying out over half of their ST in 1 month.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Should you be rewarding mediocrity like that? Cas have finished 22 points behind Saints and are in with a shout at winning the whole competition, frankly, that’s ludicrous. 

So what ? , We set a limit on who gets into the play offs by the number of points behind the leaders ? 

Take saints out of the equation next year and you could have 10 teams in the play offs 

The rules at the start are the rules , or don't bother and top wins the lot 

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Should you be rewarding mediocrity like that? Cas have finished 22 points behind Saints and are in with a shout at winning the whole competition, frankly, that’s ludicrous. 

Not this debate again. Saints being so dominant through the league has been rewarded through the LLS and their route to the GF. If they crack under that pressure that's their problem.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

So what ? , We set a limit on who gets into the play offs by the number of points behind the leaders ? 

Take saints out of the equation next year and you could have 10 teams in the play offs 

The rules at the start are the rules , or don't bother and top wins the lot 

I have no idea what you’re on about, I will be honest. 

If you think rewarding teams who’ve lost 14 regular season games with an opportunity to win the whole competition is good, fine. 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

Not this debate again. Saints being so dominant through the league has been rewarded through the LLS and their route to the GF. If they crack under that pressure that's their problem.

It’s not a club issue, it’s not specific to Saints or Cas, or anyone. It’s not to give others more of a chance, it’s just a question whether you should be rewarding teams for what is average seasons, at best?

A team who’ve lost 14 games this season has as much of a chance of winning the competition as the teams in the top two, is that fair or is that rewarding mediocrity? 

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

I have no idea what you’re on about, I will be honest. 

If you think rewarding teams who’ve lost 14 regular season games with an opportunity to win the whole competition is good, fine. 

Next year , let's say we have the top 10 teams all within 6 points of each other ? , It could easily happen , we do what ? , Let all 10 into the play offs ? 

Each year you don't know how it will pan out , but you set your rules at the start , and stick to them no matter what 

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

It’s not a club issue, it’s not specific to Saints or Cas, or anyone. It’s not to give others more of a chance, it’s just a question whether you should be rewarding teams for what is average seasons, at best?

A team who’ve lost 14 games this season has as much of a chance of winning the competition as the teams in the top two, is that fair or is that rewarding mediocrity? 

Mediocrity or a highly competitive league? Surely in a salary capped sport (where 90% of teams spend to that cap), to have a close comp is a sign the cap is working? Saints success is an outlier in what is otherwise a very competitive league.

[meast]

17 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

Just had this email from the Giants (I must in the mailing list for some reason)

 

Huddersfield Giants Chairman Ken Davy has delivered a radical new approach to entice a future generation of Huddersfield Giants supporters by drastically reducing season card prices for under 30’s for the 2020 BetFred Super League season, on sale from this Monday at 9:30am. 

Ken Davy said “We have again decided to ensure that our season ticket prices are thebest value in the entire game, whilst in addition we have simplified and expanded our age brackets, with the objective of attracting new supporters, particularly the younger age group that the game game needs, as well as the Giants. 

"Clearly these prices are heavily subsidised and in pure economic terms not viable unless we can double our season ticket base. Nonetheless we feel it essential to continue to work to embed the Claret and Gold Giants into the hearts and minds of young supporters in greater numbers. In addition, our prices for all, remain the lowest in the game and even cheaper than Championship clubs who do not face the cost of running full time squads"

Ticket Prices

Adults (Over 30s) - £149/£10.64 per Match

Under 30s - £80/£5.71 per Match

 

 

£5.71 per match? The whole email sounds like desperation to me.

Or an attempt to broaden the demographics of our fanbase which has the lowest number of 18-35 year olds in SL.

This offer is to attract a younger fan base as the current fan base is growing older, if that's desperation then every club is desperately trying to sell it's products to people of different demographics?

[meast]

17 hours ago, Damien said:

That is my feeling too. They could easily lose money over this with a few more fans but many more now paying less.

Ken Davy subsidises the losses of £1m or more every season, hence the reason we need to attract more fans of the younger end!

[Toby Chopra]

33 minutes ago, meast said:

Because 

1) "it costs too much"

2)"It's Thursday night and I can't possibly venture out of the house because I have to be up for work 12 hours later"

3) "I'm not paying that much"

4) "I pay for SKY so why would I then pay again to watch it in the ground"

5) "It's not free!"

6) "I can't be bothered"

7) "I'm a Fairweather/glory supporter and we haven't been doing very well"

8 ) "It isn't part of my season ticket so I won't attend games I have to actually buy a ticket for, unless it's a final" , see also 7)

9) "it's too cold"

10) " I have to be up the next morning so can't leave the house"

there's plenty of excuses RL fans will use to not support their clubs/games and then bemoan the fact that we are a small time sport who doesn't get the same treatment that football/RU gets etc etc 

Thing is, apart from number 5, all of those are legitimate reasons for a person not to attend a game, and most of which apply to other sports as well who largely do better at overcoming them. 

Rather than blaming the customer for not buying the product (not saying you are) we need to specifically focus on how we can resolve these objections. 

Some are more difficult than others, and some solutions make others issues harder to solve. But that's our task. Be resolutely customer focused, not admin focused. 

[meast]

6 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Thing is, apart from number 5, all of those are legitimate reasons for a person not to attend a game, and most of which apply to other sports as well who largely do better at overcoming them. 

Rather than blaming the customer for not buying the product (not saying you are) we need to specifically focus on how we can resolve these objections. 

Some are more difficult than others, and some solutions make others issues harder to solve. But that's our task. Be resolutely customer focused, not admin focused. 

Football and RU fans don't seem to have a problem with being able to attend games the night before a workday, what about people who go out for meals, to the cinema, concerts, shows etc

Why is it only RL fans that see doing things on an evening as a major obstacle?

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, meast said:

Football and RU fans don't seem to have a problem with being able to attend games the night before a workday, what about people who go out for meals, to the cinema, concerts, shows etc

Why is it only RL fans that see doing things on an evening as a major obstacle?

I'll bet the pubs in and around Warrington were busy enough 

[Dave T]

15 minutes ago, meast said:

Football and RU fans don't seem to have a problem with being able to attend games the night before a workday, what about people who go out for meals, to the cinema, concerts, shows etc

Why is it only RL fans that see doing things on an evening as a major obstacle?

Because you have spent two decades building up a family game culture with weekend games, so if you then suddenly move them to midweek it will cause problems.

And RU dont play midweek, I assume for the same reasons.

I have been to plenty football games that have had empty seats in midweek, we often get free tickets and midweek is a pain and people pass up on them. They just often have demand which exceeds capacity.

[Rupert Prince]

55 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Should you be rewarding mediocrity like that? Cas have finished 22 points behind Saints and are in with a shout at winning the whole competition, frankly, that’s ludicrous. 

So finishing 4th and 5th is mediocre.??

No wonder thousands of fans are refusing to pay through the turnstiles then.  

Heaven knows where this puts the  Championship. 

[GUBRATS]

21 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Because you have spent two decades building up a family game culture with weekend games, so if you then suddenly move them to midweek it will cause problems.

And RU dont play midweek, I assume for the same reasons.

I have been to plenty football games that have had empty seats in midweek, we often get free tickets and midweek is a pain and people pass up on them. They just often have demand which exceeds capacity.

A family culture of weekend games ? , So when is Leeds,Wigan,Saints and Wires normal home fixture ?

[Chris22]

1 hour ago, meast said:

Because 

1) "it costs too much"

2)"It's Thursday night and I can't possibly venture out of the house because I have to be up for work 12 hours later"

3) "I'm not paying that much"

4) "I pay for SKY so why would I then pay again to watch it in the ground"

5) "It's not free!"

6) "I can't be bothered"

7) "I'm a Fairweather/glory supporter and we haven't been doing very well"

8 ) "It isn't part of my season ticket so I won't attend games I have to actually buy a ticket for, unless it's a final" , see also 7)

9) "it's too cold"

10) " I have to be up the next morning so can't leave the house"

there's plenty of excuses RL fans will use to not support their clubs/games and then bemoan the fact that we are a small time sport who doesn't get the same treatment that football/RU gets etc etc 

I think you're correct that any non-attending fan will have their own reasons for not attending. In my opinion, the first reason about cost is probably the most applicable. When you compare the costs of attending a few play off games compared to a season ticket of 14 games, it is a relatively big outlay.

Shameless plug alert - I have written a blog about this (link in my signature) and looked at the figures involved in some detail. The problem is, I found it very difficult to come up with too many ways to solve the problem!