Promotion

[John WP Fan]

1 hour ago, del capo said:

Toulouse and the Dragons on the other hand would be unaffected and presumably will become the first port of call for those devilish Aussie Agents......

or, maybe, the second...

[Scubby]

32 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

I take it you support a SL Club being so obsessed with Licensing, which in my opinion of watching RL for nearly 60 years was so boring the Media lessened their interest along with sponsors as well. It also made the Lower Leagues meaningless.

In mitigation, it did create RL's highest average gate per season in the last 40+ years.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

2 hours ago, tuutaisrambo said:

Massive investment and restructuring to a more ambitious scale than Maurice Lindsay had in mind otherwise it won't work again.

While UK RL only has a hand full of big clubs we will always have this problem.  The bottom of SL is financially too close to the top of the championship.......similar businesses with sky money being the only major difference.

Whatever playing structure we adopt will always have the same problem

If you are going to bring back franchising i'd have much higher minimum standards (Clubs who don't need the central funding from sky to survive) and a separate lower cap league for everyone who can't afford it.

You could maybe create an elite SL of 10 clubs at a push.........then tell everyone else they need to improve their standards considerably or they won't get in.

That way you won't get the likes of me moaning the only difference between Fev and Wakefield is the £2m they get from Sky.

 

You’re living in a dreamland if you think “massive investment” is forthcoming, unfortunately. 

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Scubby said:

In mitigation, it did create RL's highest average gate per season in the last 40+ years.

At the top yes, whilst also decimating the lower divisions crowds. 

[Scubby]

11 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

At the top yes, whilst also decimating the lower divisions crowds. 

Take out a couple of clubs in the Championship now and it is not different really. Barrow were getting the same or better crowds than York and Halifax and Fev were regularly above what they are now.

[tuutaisrambo]

There are many reasons for falling crowds........i don't think licensing or P&R has anything to do with it.

[sentoffagain2]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

The growth at the top was far greater than the loss at the bottom. 

Overall fewer people go to watch RL today than they did in 2012. 

I  went to Wakey V Fax on a Friday night in 1971 because three of our team were playing for Fax and the attendance was 2300.The big crowds dropped off after the mid 1960's.Been in P.O.R. Fev with over 13000 in Wakey V Wigan in cup over 24000 when they filmed some crowd scenes for This Sporting Life and Odsal twice with over 70000 in digging my heels into the ash near the top of the bowl.

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, Scubby said:

Take out a couple of clubs in the Championship now and it is not different really. Barrow were getting the same or better crowds than York and Halifax and Fev were regularly above what they are now.

Ours went down by around 45% 

[Marty Funkhouser]

7 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Its moronic to compare what happened literally once, 42 years ago, in a semi-pro environment to what would happen sustainably now.

You also arent comparing like with like. Because I didnt mention winning championships, I talked about actually being at that level.

Fev haven't even reached SL level in 24 years. Leigh have been in SL for 2 years in that time. In that time London have reached a CC final and finished 2nd, warrington have multiple CCs and grand finals, castleford a LLS, cc finals and grand finals.

Its a silly comparison that doesnt address what was said and for no reason throws loads of irrelevant clubs in

 

No problem, now do your comparison 42 years ago and see under your purge which clubs you would have denied the opportunity of progression or even existence to...

3 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

The growth at the top was far greater than the loss at the bottom. 

Overall fewer people go to watch RL today than they did in 2012. 

Fewer people go to watch RL now than pre 1996...

[Oliver Clothesoff]

19 minutes ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

No problem, now do your comparison 42 years ago and see under your purge which clubs you would have denied the opportunity of progression or even existence to...

Fewer people go to watch RL now than pre 1996...

Pre 1996 was a completely different world to now, though. It’s a poor comparison. 

[GUBRATS]

On 25/09/2019 at 11:14, scotchy1 said:

To win the championship 

Ask the Toronto fans ?

[Scubby]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Ours went down by around 45% 

How many Grand Finals did Leigh make during licensing? That can impact too. 

Halifax get 45% less now and Barrow's crowds at around 60% down. Fev's are 20% down even though they could make SL. Swings and roundabouts. 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Scubby said:

How many Grand Finals did Leigh make during licensing? That can impact too. 

Halifax get 45% less now and Barrow's crowds at around 60% down. Fev's are 20% down even though they could make SL. Swings and roundabouts. 

Yes we weren't good , similarly both Fax and Barrow were good teams back then , as you say swings and roundabouts 

[Scubby]

1 hour ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

No problem, now do your comparison 42 years ago and see under your purge which clubs you would have denied the opportunity of progression or even existence to...

Fewer people go to watch RL now than pre 1996...

That is not true. I was an absolute RL nerd back as a kid in the late 80s. Every Monday I would total up the weekend's aggregate crowds, and it was rare all divisions combined passed 50k in total. The top division does that most weeks on its own nowadays. 

[Marty Funkhouser]

1 hour ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Pre 1996 was a completely different world to now, though. It’s a poor comparison. 

Certainly hundreds of millions pounds had yet to be blown/wasted, there was obviously the hindrance of playing in winter in tough conditions for players and spectators alike in mainly open and not brand new grounds but in any event compare RL with some very similar sports who exist in the same world as we do then and have had a very similar path of opportunity.

Comparisons are always poor when they don't fit a narrative. The lack of balanced evidence on here is startling at times.

[kev p]

On 22/09/2019 at 17:58, hrtbps said:

If the winner of the Championship Grand Final doesn't get promoted, it'll highlight the Super League once again as a Micky Mouse competition. 

Criteria for entry to SL should be decided before the season starts, not just before it finishes. What a joke

[DEANO]

Wrong. Criteria for entry into sl should have been decided before any new clubs are formed

[Oliver Clothesoff]

33 minutes ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

Certainly hundreds of millions pounds had yet to be blown/wasted, there was obviously the hindrance of playing in winter in tough conditions for players and spectators alike in mainly open and not brand new grounds but in any event compare RL with some very similar sports who exist in the same world as we do then and have had a very similar path of opportunity.

Comparisons are always poor when they don't fit a narrative. The lack of balanced evidence on here is startling at times.

Well, people consumed sport completely differently pre 1996 compared with 2019, where you now effectively have a multi-tooled device in your jeans pockets that can, amongst many other things, allow you to watch sport live pretty much everywhere in the UK. 

[Marty Funkhouser]

7 minutes ago, Scubby said:

That is not true. I was an absolute RL nerd back as a kid in the late 80s. Every Monday I would total up the weekend's aggregate crowds, and it was rare all divisions combined passed 50k in total. The top division does that most weeks on its own nowadays. 

It is true beyond doubt.  There were seven professional competitions inc 30 league matches, regular tour matches and tests. People preferred to pick and choose matches rather than purchase a season ticket. See the massive, massive drop in Challenge Cup  crowds, all rounds and final for example. 

You can either read one of the many excellent scholarly papers which have been written or simply research the number of people who pay to watch a professional rugby league game in a season now as opposed to pre 1996 but as an example in the first half of the 1990s, eg 1990 upto SL starting  8,807,251 people paid to watch a pro RL game. From SL starting in 96 to 2000 this was down to 5,390,256.  

The figures for the games most successful club, Wigan, alone, are startling and easily discernible from their excellent seasonal club records.

[Marty Funkhouser]

10 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Well, people consumed sport completely differently pre 1996 compared with 2019, where you now effectively have a multi-tooled device in your jeans pockets that can, amongst many other things, allow you to watch sport live pretty much everywhere in the UK. 

Indeed , other sports live in exactly that same world...

[Scubby]

34 minutes ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

It is true beyond doubt.  There were seven professional competitions inc 30 league matches, regular tour matches and tests. People preferred to pick and choose matches rather than purchase a season ticket. See the massive, massive drop in Challenge Cup  crowds, all rounds and final for example. 

You can either read one of the many excellent scholarly papers which have been written or simply research the number of people who pay to watch a professional rugby league game in a season now as opposed to pre 1996 but as an example in the first half of the 1990s, eg 1990 upto SL starting  8,807,251 people paid to watch a pro RL game. From SL starting in 96 to 2000 this was down to 5,390,256.  

The figures for the games most successful club, Wigan, alone, are startling and easily discernible from their excellent seasonal club records.

That is the most selective period of time I have ever seen. Why are you comparing it with SL 20 years ago? Why not compare SL attendances at their peak in 2009-2013? Even without the county cups and #### it will be negligible. In 2012 over £1.9m people watch SL regular rounds alone.

[Lobbygobbler]

47 minutes ago, Scubby said:

That is the most selective period of time I have ever seen. Why are you comparing it with SL 20 years ago? Why not compare SL attendances at their peak in 2009-2013? Even without the county cups and #### it will be negligible. In 2012 over £1.9m people watch SL regular rounds alone.

What about the attendances for the other clubs which were merde