Who do you want in Super League

[Tubby]

5 minutes ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

Toronto (a) because they finished top and should go up anyway and (b) because it will REALLY hack off some of the big noises running SL clubs! Also, Tubby, I seem to remember that a London club was a condition of the original SL contract.

First of all, I think the team that finishes top at the end of the regular season should be considered champions and in the Championship and League one, should be promoted.

Since the rules are that the winners of the play-off are the champions, then I hope Featherstone win and are promoted, because 'them's the rules'.

I also think SL would be more hacked off with Featherstone than with Toronto, but that's by-the-by.

I appreciate that I come form the position of a luddite as I believe in league leaders beiong the consistantly best team and therefore champions, but ew all have our opinions.

As regards the original SL contract, I haven't a clue, any more than I have any clue about the contractual situation with promotion or funding or any other criteria, since none of that is ever in the public domain.  We're all just guessing.

[tuutaisrambo]

Didn't think we'd beat Leigh

Didn't think we'd beat York

Didn't think we'd beat Toulouse

and i don't think we have much of a chance against Toronto on a short week 3500 miles away on a plastic pitch

but with this coach and these players and the team spirit they have you never know.

Last night was amazing...... a fantastic achievement by our club........then this morning i come on here and read some of the miserable tosh being spouted and i despair

I bet some of you lot must go around telling 4 year olds Santa isn't real 

[Tubby]

4 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

No worries, and those are fair points. But would that argument not also apply to bigger towns? E.g. St Helens' and Wigan's catchment areas may expand beyond their immediate vicinity?

I'm sorry, I don't know how to reply as you have quoting sections of the post.  this is my point, the catchment area is a geographical area, not a town and as such is irrelevant.

And I think this was the argument behind the 'Framing the Future' plan or whatever it was called, which involved mergers and rebranding as big city names.

Which didn't happen and we must play the hand we're dealt.

I don't think it was better, but my suspicion is that the game is now suffering from its instability, lack of vision and inability to expand. If a proper plan had been put in place to develop London (as with Melbourne Storm in Australia) and also foster other expansion areas such as Newcastle, then my guess is that this would have helped to increase the profile, and consequently make it a more appealing game for sponsors and broadcasters. And perhaps we wouldn't be staring down the barrel of a much-reduced broadcasting deal for 2021 onwards. But this is all complete guesswork on my part and I could be completely wrong.

Alternatively, the game is suffering from a change in the structure/qualification on a regular basis, so that clubs don't know where they stand, even from the beginning to the end of one season.  It's all just conjecture.

If the game was starting to design a structure from scratch on a blank sheet of paper, based around the current clubs, my guess is that the likes of York, Newcastle and Bradford would be much more strategically attractive propositions than the likes of Featherstone. But the instability provided by P&R means that it is impossible to guarantee any structure that safeguards these clubs from falling out of the top flight.

Absolutely, but we're not on a blank piece of paper, there are a hundred years of scribbling out and tippex and no-one has a clue what the current strategy is, never mind the future one.  My point stands that Featherstone offer no more nor less than any of the other northern towns in respect of status.  York, Leeds & Newcastle patently do, but in a sport like RL, I personally don't think that has any place in deciding the worth of a club.

I can completely see why people like P&R and why they want it to stay, but from my perspective - in the long term interests of the game - we have to devise a top division that works to the game's strengths in terms of strong clubs with a good support base and big potential catchment areas, in order to maximise our potential audience and bring more money into the sport. Alternatively, if people want P&R to stay then we have to accept a huge amount of instability in the game, which may result in missing out on some of that potential audience, and consequently we can't moan if fewer sponsors and broadcasters want to invest in the sport.

Without P&R the sport outside SL has stagnated and clubs within the lower leagues have struggled to survive.  An entirely and permanently closed shop would, I believe lead to the demise of RL as a professional sport in this country as the player pool would slowly dry up.

 

 

[tuutaisrambo]

back to the OP

I hope Fev do it but Toronto must be massive favourites.

Whoever wins i doubt the result will greatly effect any future TV deal or impact on Super leagues bid for global dominance

I'd say both clubs bring problems to SL but nothing compared to the ones it already has

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

14 minutes ago, Tubby said:

Which didn't happen and we must play the hand we're dealt.

Fair point

 

14 minutes ago, Tubby said:

Alternatively, the game is suffering from a change in the structure/qualification on a regular basis, so that clubs don't know where they stand, even from the beginning to the end of one season.  It's all just conjecture.

This is a fair point as well. None of know for certain what's going to happen.

 

16 minutes ago, Tubby said:

Absolutely, but we're not on a blank piece of paper, there are a hundred years of scribbling out and tippex and no-one has a clue what the current strategy is, never mind the future one.

 

17 minutes ago, Tubby said:

My point stands that Featherstone offer no more nor less than any of the other northern towns in respect of status.  York, Leeds & Newcastle patently do, but in a sport like RL, I personally don't think that has any place in deciding the worth of a club.

And I think this is where there is a big division in the sport. There are some who argue that every club should have the right to progress through P&R, and others who argue that the strongest, most strategically beneficial clubs must be safeguarded in the top division in order to maximise commercial opportunities. And I don't see how the two are compatible. I'm probably leaning more towards the latter argument, but then I read posts like those above by tuutaisrambo and get reminded how important P&R is for fans of these other clubs.

 

21 minutes ago, Tubby said:

Without P&R the sport outside SL has stagnated and clubs within the lower leagues have struggled to survive. 

The re-introduction of P&R does seem to have re-invigorated the lower leagues. However, I would argue that many clubs are still struggling to survive, and that P&R possibly contributes to some of these lower league clubs over-reaching beyond their means and getting into financial bother.

 

23 minutes ago, Tubby said:

An entirely and permanently closed shop would, I believe lead to the demise of RL as a professional sport in this country as the player pool would slowly dry up.

I'm not sure why that would be the case. Realistically, the pro game from League One is a closed shop, and there is plenty of competition going on below that. I suspect the re-introduction of reserve grade will mean that many players will be earning similar money in a SL reserve team comparable to alot of League One clubs, and that those players will just migrate to SL reserve teams. If the TV money dries up in 2 years, then alot of those League One clubs risk disappearing overnight.

Also, I'm definitely not in favour of a permanently closed shop. I agree that this would definitely lead to stagnation, and poorly performing clubs (on-field, development, commercially) would have no incentive improve their performance. I would like to see a re-introduction of licencing that could encourage those aspirational lower league clubs to develop their businesses and performance so that they have a route to the top level. But it would offer stability to clubs so that they could plan long-term. For me, the problem with licencing last time is that it wasn't enforced properly. Also, I think that those clubs that obviously perform well in most areas (e.g. Leeds) could be given longer licences than those who are performing less well.

But I appreciate that this pathway isn't as exciting and is a much harder sell to supporters of the lower league clubs.

[Private Baldrick]

What if, and it is a compromise, IF Fev win on Saturday they change their name to Barcelona but decide to play all their games at Featherstone? This way the expansionists get a fancy name in Super League and the traditionalists get to watch proper rugby in a proper traditional setting.

There are currently other teams not playing in the town of their name so why not Barcelona?

[Nate90]

I would like Toronto to go up but fair play if Featherstone win, I did not expect them to be as competitive as they have been this season.

A fourteen team Super League is what I would love to see but it won't happen will it?

[Gooleboy]

4 hours ago, Private Baldrick said:

What if, and it is a compromise, IF Fev win on Saturday they change their name to Barcelona but decide to play all their games at Featherstone? This way the expansionists get a fancy name in Super League and the traditionalists get to watch proper rugby in a proper traditional setting.

There are currently other teams not playing in the town of their name so why not Barcelona?

Feverly Hills has a ring to it, and if Castleford become Cas Vegas, what a match up that could be! 

[silverback]

fev all the way for me,with all the spouting for 2 years or more about how we should learn from toronto it would make my day for fev to stuff em, its one hell of a season they have had anyway and am sure it will be one cracking game, maybe we should also look at how a little pit village can just show everyone how it can be done with hard grafting players who some go to work all week . you get what you see and if theres another team in wakefield area so what, how manys in manchester area and dont get me going on fartown lost in that massive stadium..

  GO FEV GO.

[north yorks trinity]

I'm a massive fan of expansion but also tend to root for the underdog when my team aren't playing (and generally by default when my team are playing ) so it's a win win for me.  

Heart says Fev, head says Toronto. The problem with supporting the underdog in rugby league is that you are almost always disappointed, but when they do win it's such a great feeling even when it's not your team. Who didn't enjoy Sheffield 1998, except Wigan fans of course? Had some great times at Post Office Road, (some involving Wakey but many not) and Fev are a great and passionate club.  It would be an incredible story to see them back in SL, eclipsing London's brilliant win last year IMO. And if Toronto are serious, they'll get there eventually. Of course, if they win this week, as expected, it'll also be a great story. 

Like I said, win-win.

[gingdong]

why on earth do people think the saints and wigans of this world are big draws?? i work with people country wide and there bored shatless with the same teams in super league Rovers would be a breath of fresh air and attract more viewers, they put themselves on a pedestal there hardly barcelona and real madrid are they, Wakey and cas have trousered millions from the game and play in grounds that havent been fit for purpose for 20 years wakey have no training facilities and have to train at Fev. Wigan no ground, hull no ground wouldnt exist if it wasnt for the gateshead merger, huddersfield when davy pops his clogs they go bust. Who in gods name do super league clubs think they are ????????

[Gooleboy]

Just now, gingdong said:

why on earth do people think the saints and wigans of this world are big draws?? i work with people country wide and there bored shatless with the same teams in super league Rovers would be a breath of fresh air and attract more viewers, they put themselves on a pedestal there hardly barcelona and real madrid are they, Wakey and cas have trousered millions from the game and play in grounds that havent been fit for purpose for 20 years wakey have no training facilities and have to train at Fev. Wigan no ground, hull no ground wouldnt exist if it wasnt for the gateshead merger, huddersfield when davy pops his clogs they go bust. Who in gods name do super league clubs think they are ????????

Saints and Wigan only got 14.5k for Friday's semi final, so they maybe aren't as bigger draw as they think are.

[JohnM]

2 hours ago, gingdong said:

 Who in gods name do super league clubs think they are ????????

They are masters of punctuation for a start, though your "stream of consciousness" approach is very avant garde I  concede

Wigan do in fact have a ground. I was there some years ago when it was house full against St Helens. 

The Superleague. Clubs don't think they are, the KNOW they are the top clubs in the game. 

Whosoever joins their ranks becomes one of them, which is what  I assume you want. 

[Mister Ting]

33 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Saints and Wigan only got 14.5k for Friday's semi final, so they maybe aren't as bigger draw as they think are.

Hardly anyone outside the sport knows it's happening. Plus, the final game before the Grand Final should be known as the Preliminary Final or Finals.

We'll get used to these final systems eventually.

[Mister Ting]

6 hours ago, Nate90 said:

I would like Toronto to go up but fair play if Featherstone win, I did not expect them to be as competitive as they have been this season.

A fourteen team Super League is what I would love to see but it won't happen will it?

Fourteen teams is way too many.

The top league needs fewer games with more quality.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Anyone want some crisps to go with the amount of bitter on flow in this thread. 

I’m not overly bothered by who comes up, I won’t be upset either way but if pushed, I’d plump for Fev, purely because I’m more likely to be able to afford a return ticket to Fev than a 4-5 day break in Canada. I do hope the game is a better contest than last year’s MPG, though. 

 

[Gooleboy]

Just now, Mister Ting said:

Hardly anyone outside the sport knows it's happening. Plus, the final game before the Grand Final should be known as the Preliminary Final or Finals.

We'll get used to these final systems eventually.

Radio 5's presenter was struggling to understand the formation Friday night.

[Gooleboy]

Just now, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Anyone want some crisps to go with the amount of butter on flow in this thread. 

I’m not overly bothered by who comes up, I won’t be upset either way but if pushed, I’d plump for Fev, purely because I’m more likely to be able to afford a return ticket to Fev than a 4-5 day break in Canada. I do hope the game is a better contest than last year’s MPG, though. 

 

Nice to hear somebody preferring Featherstone to Canada!

[Mister Ting]

10 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Radio 5's presenter was struggling to understand the formation Friday night.

Many Brits don't get finals, play-offs. I don't understand the NFL system, but then I'm not really to fussed about wildcards. It all beats any championship that finishes a month before the end of the season.

[JohnM]

4 hours ago, Gooleboy said:

... if Castleford become Cas Vegas, what a match up that could be! 

It would be ACE!

[superten]

On ‎29‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 20:13, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Who would you like to be promoted to Super League?

neither of the two as none will bring any thing to improve super league .  

[Allora]

Who do i want in Super League?

The Gold Coast Titans 

[milpool]

Anyone but ‘Toronto’.

[muckymunksy]

On 30/09/2019 at 07:58, Eddie said:

Catalans don’t take away fans either, do you want them out of SL too?

Doesn’t take 8 hours to get there.

and they can play home games in Feb and March 

[damp squib]

On 30/09/2019 at 17:01, silverback said:

fev all the way for me,with all the spouting for 2 years or more about how we should learn from toronto it would make my day for fev to stuff em, its one hell of a season they have had anyway and am sure it will be one cracking game, maybe we should also look at how a little pit village can just show everyone how it can be done with hard grafting players who some go to work all week* . you get what you see and if theres another team in wakefield area so what, how manys in manchester area and dont get me going on fartown lost in that massive stadium..

  GO FEV GO.

*and six or seven full time players with SL experience on DR from Leeds.

If you're going to play the plucky little Fev card at least be honest about it.