Toronto Given Green Light to Enter Super League

[Tommygilf]

Oh god its here!

[Kayakman]

1 hour ago, SL17 said:

It was never about losing money. It was how much can you make!

Ya, so its about 3.25 million Canadian.   They will eventually get a TV contract for that over here..no big deal...Argyle will carry it until he needs to. 

Have to win the Million Pound Game though...then once in SL announce a deal.  It will take a while to get that in money viewing sponsorship but it will happen...of course, there is the potential for much more down the line if everything goes according to plan, but to be fair that is yet to be seen.

Its doable though.

[Kayakman]

15 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

So if TWP aren't getting Sky money, who will pay to produce their games next year? If they lose on Saturday I assume they will continue to produce Championship games (giving that League the only TV exposure they receive) but if they win and are in Super League will they still have to self-produce their games? Will Sky pay them for this? Or will it be a swap-in-kind? Who will pay to produce TWP games in the winter if they take early home games on the road to other cities? Would Sky want them to play Saturdays at home or will they want them to play at home on a Thursday/Friday afternoon?

And if TWP do get a large Canadian TV deal, will SL expect a cut of that?

It all strikes me as being terribly complicated. That's probably why it took so long to confirm Toronto's entry - all the legal-beagles going over the permutations of who pays for what and who gets a share of the profits. (Any losses of course will be entirely Toronto's responsibility.)

 

Bob Hunter will take care of it...he is good at handling things like this..that is why he was brought in...its his thing.

[Kayakman]

Just now, SL17 said:

It looks like a stall that has been set for you. The main principle to always remember! Its not what you take from the game, its what you put into it.

Good luck.

I KNOW. I KNOW.

TORONTO GIVES AND GIVES...ALEWAYS THE UNDERWOLF WE ARE, BUT WE NEVER GIVE UP AND KEEP EXPANDING THE BASE (LITERALLY EVERY HOME GAME).

We give our money, we give our time, we give our energy, all for the good of the game.  We buy more gear than any other fans.

We will never stop giving since, clearly ACCORDING TO PARKY , we are the saviours of RL and its our solemn duty to step forward.

The Rugby Gods have picked Toronto as the CHOSEN CLUB!

Don't worry SL17...we won't let ya all down.  You can depend on us...this Club is literally blessed by manna from rugby heaven.

 

[ChoboMog]

@The Parksider, as with before, I'll do my best to keep responses on topic, polite, and concise, and I appreciate your attempts to do the same:

• If the Super League is so short of viable clubs (I disagree, but I'll run with your logic), then allowing a currently successful Toronto Wolfpack club to join, with deep pockets to back it and with future financial viability seemingly likely, clearly isn't a bad idea.  Toronto's inclusion in Super League could even provide increased financial stability, in the medium to long term, once details of travel costs are ironed out.
• The single easiest way for the Toronto Wolfpack to secure a TV deal is to be in the top flight, to be in the Super League.  I obviously have no idea what discussions the team has been having, with sports media outlets, nor the level of success or interest they've had.  However, should Toronto successfully gain promotion, on Saturday, with the local media coverage they have garnered, and with the connections within the Canadian sports media landscape Chairman and interim CEO Bob Hunter has, a TV deal would not surprise me in the least.
• Further to the point above, please keep in mind the following:
  
  1) Toronto Wolfpack have, already, been broadcast for three straight seasons within Canada on both GameTV (SD/HD broadcast, depending on region) and the CBC Sports app (Free HD streaming), as well as on Sky Sports Arena (HD broadcast) in the U.K;
  2) Sky Sports has, also, provided significantly more coverage of the RFL Championship than it has in the past, largely due to the increased interest in the tier and due to the coverage of Toronto games provided to them by the Wolfpack.  The typically weekly non-Toronto regular season Championship game, now shown on Sky Sports, is a good thing and it would be hard to argue that Toronto wasn't at least partly responsible for this development.
  3) While these don't yet constitute a new net positive TV deal, financially, any additional exposure such coverage provides to the sport, and the RFL/SL as a whole, is substantial and should not be ignored.
   
• Player development takes time.  Deal with it.  Thankfully, Toronto Wolfpack community outreach has been happening since day one, and the number of kids (girls and boys both) and families at the game and often sporting their local kids' team jerseys, is not insignificant.  They are our next generation.  Similarly, the exposure gained from TV coverage, especially when promoted more widely from a more substantial TV deal, is the easiest way to entice completely new players and fans, as well as both gridiron and RU players via code conversion, into the fold.
• Please, give it a rest with Eric Perez, at least when it comes to conversations specifically about the Toronto Wolfpack.  He no longer plays any meaningful role with the team, and hasn't for at least the duration of the 2019 season; so, repeatedly harking back to comments of his, from 3+ years ago is barely relevant and does nothing but hold back the more important questions: Where do we go from here; and how to we make Toronto's expansion a net benefit for the Super League, the RFL and all it's constituent parts, and for the game of Rugby League in general?

Thankfully, and with RFL/SL/TWP official statements still pending, for some reason, the Super League seems to have seen the clear potential Toronto's success has.

Looking forward to a sold out Lamport, this Saturday, to a Toronto victory, and to seeing our Super League opposition in 2020!

[Krzzystuff]

8 minutes ago, SL17 said:

We have given our money for 140 years..

haven't been giving to the right people have ya?

[Krzzystuff]

1 hour ago, SL17 said:

Thats why they won't give it to you..

Nope, they won't...not yet.

My personal thoughts on this are that Argyle is going full out next year if we're in SL to show these "brilliant" chairman what the game could be by taking some games abroad and actually showing them how great it is here when they come over (most/all haven't been here for some reason after all the ravings about our game day?). Then once a new SKY deal is about to be signed because of the influx of positive media coverage and increased viewing figures Argyle will tell them to suck it or treat us as an equal member with all the fixings. You won't be able to get as good a deal without us. So yeah we're ok with super greed chairman for now.

On the latest Wolfing'around podcast they mentioned that Argyle told a few of the chairman to F off right to their faces.... because they are idiots.

NWO Wolfpack in the house!!!

[Omott91]

3 hours ago, ChoboMog said:

@The Parksider, as with before, I'll do my best to keep responses on topic, polite, and concise, and I appreciate your attempts to do the same:

• If the Super League is so short of viable clubs (I disagree, but I'll run with your logic), then allowing a currently successful Toronto Wolfpack club to join, with deep pockets to back it and with future financial viability seemingly likely, clearly isn't a bad idea.  Toronto's inclusion in Super League could even provide increased financial stability, in the medium to long term, once details of travel costs are ironed out.
• The single easiest way for the Toronto Wolfpack to secure a TV deal is to be in the top flight, to be in the Super League.  I obviously have no idea what discussions the team has been having, with sports media outlets, nor the level of success or interest they've had.  However, should Toronto successfully gain promotion, on Saturday, with the local media coverage they have garnered, and with the connections within the Canadian sports media landscape Chairman and interim CEO Bob Hunter has, a TV deal would not surprise me in the least.
• Further to the point above, please keep in mind the following:
  
  1) Toronto Wolfpack have, already, been broadcast for three straight seasons within Canada on both GameTV (SD/HD broadcast, depending on region) and the CBC Sports app (Free HD streaming), as well as on Sky Sports Arena (HD broadcast) in the U.K;
  2) Sky Sports has, also, provided significantly more coverage of the RFL Championship than it has in the past, largely due to the increased interest in the tier and due to the coverage of Toronto games provided to them by the Wolfpack.  The typically weekly non-Toronto regular season Championship game, now shown on Sky Sports, is a good thing and it would be hard to argue that Toronto wasn't at least partly responsible for this development.
  3) While these don't yet constitute a new net positive TV deal, financially, any additional exposure such coverage provides to the sport, and the RFL/SL as a whole, is substantial and should not be ignored.
   
• Player development takes time.  Deal with it.  Thankfully, Toronto Wolfpack community outreach has been happening since day one, and the number of kids (girls and boys both) and families at the game and often sporting their local kids' team jerseys, is not insignificant.  They are our next generation.  Similarly, the exposure gained from TV coverage, especially when promoted more widely from a more substantial TV deal, is the easiest way to entice completely new players and fans, as well as both gridiron and RU players via code conversion, into the fold.
• Please, give it a rest with Eric Perez, at least when it comes to conversations specifically about the Toronto Wolfpack.  He no longer plays any meaningful role with the team, and hasn't for at least the duration of the 2019 season; so, repeatedly harking back to comments of his, from 3+ years ago is barely relevant and does nothing but hold back the more important questions: Where do we go from here; and how to we make Toronto's expansion a net benefit for the Super League, the RFL and all it's constituent parts, and for the game of Rugby League in general?

Thankfully, and with RFL/SL/TWP official statements still pending, for some reason, the Super League seems to have seen the clear potential Toronto's success has.

Looking forward to a sold out Lamport, this Saturday, to a Toronto victory, and to seeing our Super League opposition in 2020!

Great post, however you know who will be around to tell you just how wrong you are, just like clockwork.  

[Yakstorm]

Great to have it sorted, would have been embarrassing for all involved otherwise if Toronto had won and no one could confirm who the 12th team in Super League would have been (Would Featherstone have been promoted instead? Or would London stay up if Toronto were not permitted entry?).

No surprise that they don't get a cut of the Sky money, I honestly reckon they would have done the same to Toulouse if they got in.  Thankfully Toronto has shown that their model is working even without central funding. 

[Oxford]

5 hours ago, Pulga said:

Parky, you seem to grab throw away bits and pieces of quotes and string them together to make some weird narrative that only you seem to understand.

He is the James Joyce of TGG!

Those who prefer paperback editions have the corners of the pages with the rude bits turned down so's has not to lose them ...ever!

 

[Dave T]

8 hours ago, Big Picture said:

Speak for yourself with that first comment, for some of us it's about both of those things.

We'll probably find that the other clubs needed a chunk of the money to be able to afford their one road trip to Toronto during the season because they're too hard up to fund it any other way.

Well that is a perfectly reasonable position. We dont know how much the clubs are taking, but covering the additional costs admitting a NA team to the league is perfectly reasonable.

[Dave T]

7 hours ago, The Parksider said:

1. Because SL are short of viable clubs for Superleague hence they proposed a cut to 10 early this year that Championship clubs rejected. Argylle offers himself as a rich owner which is one thing we want, but we also want clubs to underpin a TV deal and develop players. TWP cannot do either of those things and never will, but Warrington can. Wire score 3 out of 3 Toronto score 1 out of 3. 

2. Because of the three criteria TWP obviously can't meet player production or TV money requirements but they have a rich owner, but he doesn't like to pay debts. Therefore they didn't meet any criteria, and the only one Hunter could fix "at the moment" was financial guarantees. It's a given they don't meet the other two.

3. Yes  but you were on this website in 2016 when Perez answered the  RFL's required criteria for what clubs needed to do to meet Superleague standards. The criteria TWP were asked to work towards were.........

NA PLAYER DEVELOPMENT WAS REQUIRED AS PEREZ ACKNOWLEDGED BUT FAILED TO DO:-

Eric Perez 6^th, May 2016 Perez: “We will be working with the CRL to develop a strong talent pool. 19^th. July 2016 “We want as many Canadians in the squad as possible, there is a wealth of talent, college football super athletes. 27^th, April 2016 “we’ll be spending a month here to ensure we find the top athletes this country is producing: there will be North American roots.23^rd Nov 2016 “ there will be ‘at least five, maybe 10, players from Canada, the USA and Jamaica in the TWP squad”.

TV DEALS WERE REQUIRED FOR THE GAME HERE BUT THEY DID NOT MATERIALISE SO PEREZ SAID:-

Eric Perez late 2016 "TWP was never just a one club project. One team is not enough to yield what you need to yield from the NATV market. To bring NATV revenues, to really start bringing new money into the sport you've got to have at least five or six North American clubs in Superleague in the next 10 years."

TWP fail on their  own stated aims of bringing to the game more players and more TV money, with Perez recently stating "it isn't easy" when asked where the players were. When asked about where the TV deal was as above he says that will come in once once four more NA clubs replace four English clubs in SL. 

Read it TWP was never just a one club project You and others think it's fantastic TWP go up for London, but now it's my turn to ask you - which four Superleague clubs should be relegated for Ottawa, New York, Montreal and Vancouver between now and the end of Perez's  "10 year plan" 2016-2026 for a Transatlantic League???

So this criteria for entering SL were not 'really' the criteria?

The rest of your post is noise.

Surely if they had been an utter flop, delivered no benefit to the game, met no criteria, as you have been telling is for years they would have been declined, as other clubs have been in the past?

[Harry Stottle]

13 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Matt Shaw got the lead story in this week’s League Express completely wrong so I’ll believe it when there’s an official statement.

He gets a lot wrong, has done ever since he first came on these pages about 2012 if I remember correctly, he would make statements then when challenged.............. nothing!

[Dave T]

5 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Ya, so its about 3.25 million Canadian.   They will eventually get a TV contract for that over here..no big deal...Argyle will carry it until he needs to. 

Have to win the Million Pound Game though...then once in SL announce a deal.  It will take a while to get that in money viewing sponsorship but it will happen...of course, there is the potential for much more down the line if everything goes according to plan, but to be fair that is yet to be seen.

Its doable though.

And I think that is part of the perceived problem. To get these future benefits it will take millions of pounds of investment - and SLE have decided that they will not take that risk, it must come from TWP themselves.

I made the point on another thread that the Catalans expansion will be putting doubt in people's minds from a commercial point of view. After 15 years they still dont contribute directly to the tv deal and we have no French commercial deals centrally, despite over £20m of funds directed away from the UK to France.

Of course you could take a more holistic view that Catalans add to the Sky deal indirectly as they make the comp more attractive etc. but at some stage the benefits need to start becoming more direct. 

Imho the bigger challenge is that the sport is notoriously bad at tapping into new commercial opportunities.

[Harry Stottle]

11 hours ago, frank said:

More likely to be spent on Aussies that are  over the hill or couldn't manage to climb it.

Off course you are very correct, and Toronto will be doing exactly the same but without any funding to finance it!

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Are there any fans of current Super League clubs worried for their chances of survival next year should Toronto get promoted? 

 

[TboneFromTO]

6 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Are there any fans of current Super League clubs worried for their chances of survival next year should Toronto get promoted? 

 

Someone's gotta go down, and my money is on Toronto to stay up (if they go up that is)

I would think the bottom clubs are rethinking strategy for next year.  Hudds and trin especially

[Harry Stottle]

7 hours ago, Pulga said:

Parky, you seem to grab throw away bits and pieces of quotes and string them together to make some weird narrative that only you seem to understand.

 

With this announcement you've lost again. What next?

If Parky is making up all those quotes he should be lambasted and dragged through any court anywhere, the charge,  Libel:-

LAW. A published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.

If any doubters believe it is all fabrication by Mr Parksider there must be a few buck's to be made here, and no need to stop there tell Brian Noble he was wrongly quoted as well, you can even provide them with all the evidence even the dates they so called made these statements.

But it will never happen, will it? you have all been hoodwinked and blinded by the bright lights, the SL clubs have been blighted by greed and allowed the circus to continue, I am looking forward to the coming seasons, more with a morbid curiosity of witnessing how and why it will all start unravelling, all the while the advocates will be be getting drunk on their euphoria and lose all sense of reality, but there comes a time when it is nessacary to sober up, that is when people realise the consequences of their thoughts and actions and think Oh S*^t, what have I done.

[Harry Stottle]

6 hours ago, Kayakman said:

They will eventually get a TV contract

Really, I love your optimism, it won't happen.

[Omott91]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

Really, I love your optimism, it won't happen.

I love your negativity.

[clwydianrange]

53 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Are there any fans of current Super League clubs worried for their chances of survival next year should Toronto get promoted? 

 

It shouldn’t matter. Whether it’s TWP, Feath or whoever the risk is the same. Unless the assumption is that a ‘yo-yo’ club would immediately go straight back down so everybody else is safe.

[Dave T]

55 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

If Parky is making up all those quotes he should be lambasted and dragged through any court anywhere, the charge,  Libel:-

LAW. A published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.

If any doubters believe it is all fabrication by Mr Parksider there must be a few buck's to be made here, and no need to stop there tell Brian Noble he was wrongly quoted as well, you can even provide them with all the evidence even the dates they so called made these statements.

But it will never happen, will it? you have all been hoodwinked and blinded by the bright lights, the SL clubs have been blighted by greed and allowed the circus to continue, I am looking forward to the coming seasons, more with a morbid curiosity of witnessing how and why it will all start unravelling, all the while the advocates will be be getting drunk on their euphoria and lose all sense of reality, but there comes a time when it is nessacary to sober up, that is when people realise the consequences of their thoughts and actions and think Oh S*^t, what have I done.

It is a strange kind of 'fan' who hopes for failure just so you can be right.

But we seem to have a fair few in RL.

Wouldn't you rather be wrong and them be a great success? 

[Dave T]

Repeat

[Dave T]

Repeat

[Oliver Clothesoff]

36 minutes ago, clwydianrange said:

It shouldn’t matter. Whether it’s TWP, Feath or whoever the risk is the same. Unless the assumption is that a ‘yo-yo’ club would immediately go straight back down so everybody else is safe.

Considering there’s talk of Fev not going completely full-time, I think there would be some more comfortable if they come up, whereas Toronto have thrown money at their squad and are likely to keep that up.