Harry Stottle Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 4 hours ago, Krzzystuff said: Nope, they won't...not yet. My personal thoughts on this are that Argyle is going full out next year if we're in SL to show these "brilliant" chairman what the game could be by taking some games abroad and actually showing them how great it is here when they come over (most/all haven't been here for some reason after all the ravings about our game day?). Then once a new SKY deal is about to be signed because of the influx of positive media coverage and increased viewing figures Argyle will tell them to suck it or treat us as an equal member with all the fixings. You won't be able to get as good a deal without us. So yeah we're ok with super greed chairman for now. On the latest Wolfing'around podcast they mentioned that Argyle told a few of the chairman to F off right to their faces.... because they are idiots. NWO Wolfpack in the house!!! Sounds a lot like the drum beating and personnel from the organisation I sold my company to, they are situated not to far from Toronto as the crow flies, they are in up-state New York, Palmyra to be exact, close enough to Toronto to be of the same mindset. In our sale agreement I was to stay on for 2 years to guide and advise, about 2 month's post sale I was in a meeting in the boardroom and knowing and senseing that things were not going as they should I made a suggestion to the MD to rethink his strategies and buisness approach, he looked me straight in the eye pointed his finger at me and said "l am the boss here now not you, shut up, we do it my way" I did as I was told, I offered no more help or assistance, just short of 12 months later he was gone, relieved of his duties, sacked. The sad thing is the new guy they installed was exactly the same, a self-assertive know all who was an expert at everything, one who was never wrong, a legend in his own lunchtime, I couldn't stay and withess the decline so not wishing to remain in this environment I negotiated an early exit. But, the saddest thing about this is they took a very successful, well regarded profitable organisation to near extinction in 3 year's, with the loss of nearly 50 jobs, they now have an office (loss making) with 3 people just to show they have a presence in the UK. The moral, like the company who knew nothing about our buisness and thought they knew everthing of how things should be done in the UK, it gives me a resounding echo reading all the 'authoritative' analysis from most of the Canadian contributors to these pages how after just 3 years in the game their self appointed expertise in all matters Rugby League should be the path we tread, needless to say I have heard it all before and observed the consequences. If the SL are wise enough (though with this decision I doubt it) they should not offer any hope whatsoever to any new entities from NA for acceptance into SL untill TWP have proved themselves to be successfully or otherwise a good fit in the structure of the British game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Omott91 said: I love your negativity. It's born out of fear I suppose, not that TWP succeeds but the repercussions to the game over here, there is not enough substance to support more teams, something has to give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 32 minutes ago, Dave T said: It is a strange kind of 'fan' who hopes for failure just so you can be right. But we seem to have a fair few in RL. Wouldn't you rather be wrong and them be a great success? See what I said in the post immediatly above this one David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said: See what I said in the post above David. I don't think you addressed Dave's point Harry. It is fine if it is your opinion that the Toronto venture is doomed to failure. It is also fine if you are fearful of the impact it has on the UK domestic game. But the point that Dave is making (if I am ok to paraphrase him) is that it appears that you would prefer it to fail than succeed so that you can be proved correct. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Just now, Harry Stottle said: See what I said in the post above David. The thing is Harry, I agree with many of your points, and I find some of the aggressive behaviour of some people towards anyone even moderately questioning anything to be a real turn-off, but I don't see the reason for such a negative angle in the post I quoted. As I have pointed out, SLE have decided that they will mitigate the risk by not investing any funds currently routed into UK RL, and I am comfortable with that approach as I don't think the game has much to lose. So if the worst happens, we have lost little, and if they are a huge success, the game wins too. We have some really weak clubs in SL, I see little risk in replacing one of them with a strong TWP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 39 minutes ago, Dave T said: It is a strange kind of 'fan' who hopes for failure just so you can be right. But we seem to have a fair few in RL. Wouldn't you rather be wrong and them be a great success? Well said Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 9 hours ago, The Parksider said: TWP fail on their own stated aims of bringing to the game more players and more TV money, with Perez recently stating "it isn't easy" when asked where the players were. When asked about where the TV deal was as above he says that will come in once once four more NA clubs replace four English clubs in SL. Read it TWP was never just a one club project You and others think it's fantastic TWP go up for London, but now it's my turn to ask you - which four Superleague clubs should be relegated for Ottawa, New York, Montreal and Vancouver between now and the end of Perez's "10 year plan" 2016-2026 for a Transatlantic League??? Apologies, conscious I didn't answer this, and while you sort of answered my questions, I should do you the courtesy of replying as well. To answer this, I first need to call you out on this line "when asked about where the TV deal was as above, he says that will come in once four more NA clubs replace four English clubs in SL". Please provide a source for this, because that has never, to my knowledge been stated. Perez has never ever stated that four more NA clubs would replace four English clubs. So why have you made this up? Unless you provide a source for this quote, then the question is irrelevant, as only you have stated this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunsletgreenandgold Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 10 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: Sounds a lot like the drum beating and personnel from the organisation I sold my company to, they are situated not to far from Toronto as the crow flies, they are in up-state New York, Palmyra to be exact, close enough to Toronto to be of the same mindset. In our sale agreement I was to stay on for 2 years to guide and advise, about 2 month's post sale I was in a meeting in the boardroom and knowing and senseing that things were not going as they should I made a suggestion to the MD to rethink his strategies and buisness approach, he looked me straight in the eye pointed his finger at me and said "l am the boss here now not you, shut up, we do it my way" I did as I was told, I offered no more help or assistance, just short of 12 months later he was gone, relieved of his duties, sacked. The sad thing is the new guy they installed was exactly the same, a self-assertive know all who was an expert at everything, one who was never wrong, a legend in his own lunchtime, I couldn't stay and withess the decline so not wishing to remain in this environment I negotiated an early exit. But, the saddest thing about this is they took a very successful, well regarded profitable organisation to near extinction in 3 year's, with the loss of nearly 50 jobs, they now have an office (loss making) with 3 people just to show they have a presence in the UK. The moral, like the company who knew nothing about our buisness and thought they knew everthing of how things should be done in the UK, it gives me a resounding echo reading all the 'authoritative' analysis from most of the Canadian contributors to these pages how after just 3 years in the game their self appointed expertise in all matters Rugby League should be the path we tread, needless to say I have heard it all before and observed the consequences. If the SL are wise enough (though with this decision I doubt it) they should not offer any hope whatsoever to any new entities from NA for acceptance into SL untill TWP have proved themselves to be successfully or otherwise a good fit in the structure of the British game. I read the post and then got to the 'needless to say...' part and read it again in Alan Partridge's* voice. Do it, it's fun! *For our Canadian friends on here, Alan Partridge is a parody character who has high levels of self importance, little Englander views and generally feels threatened by change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 56 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: Sounds a lot like the drum beating and personnel from the organisation I sold my company to, they are situated not to far from Toronto as the crow flies, they are in up-state New York, Palmyra to be exact, close enough to Toronto to be of the same mindset. In our sale agreement I was to stay on for 2 years to guide and advise, about 2 month's post sale I was in a meeting in the boardroom and knowing and senseing that things were not going as they should I made a suggestion to the MD to rethink his strategies and buisness approach, he looked me straight in the eye pointed his finger at me and said "l am the boss here now not you, shut up, we do it my way" I did as I was told, I offered no more help or assistance, just short of 12 months later he was gone, relieved of his duties, sacked. The sad thing is the new guy they installed was exactly the same, a self-assertive know all who was an expert at everything, one who was never wrong, a legend in his own lunchtime, I couldn't stay and withess the decline so not wishing to remain in this environment I negotiated an early exit. But, the saddest thing about this is they took a very successful, well regarded profitable organisation to near extinction in 3 year's, with the loss of nearly 50 jobs, they now have an office (loss making) with 3 people just to show they have a presence in the UK. The moral, like the company who knew nothing about our buisness and thought they knew everthing of how things should be done in the UK, it gives me a resounding echo reading all the 'authoritative' analysis from most of the Canadian contributors to these pages how after just 3 years in the game their self appointed expertise in all matters Rugby League should be the path we tread, needless to say I have heard it all before and observed the consequences. If the SL are wise enough (though with this decision I doubt it) they should not offer any hope whatsoever to any new entities from NA for acceptance into SL untill TWP have proved themselves to be successfully or otherwise a good fit in the structure of the British game. Can I ask what your business was called Harry and the business that you sold to? If you are not comfortable sharing this then I would interested to know what sector you were/are in. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR23 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 If Toronto get promoted I'll consider the trip over but I'll have everything crossed that they play a game in Copenhagen and draw Salford that week - it's a long shot but I would absolutely love that. It's a great city, easy to get to and I'm sure a few locals would be interested - those Scandinavians come across as a 'liberal' lot but they love a bit of biff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 21 minutes ago, Dunbar said: Can I ask what your business was called Harry and the business that you sold to? If you are not comfortable sharing this then I would interested to know what sector you were/are in. “Flat Earthers Inc” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fighting irish Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Omott91 said: I love your negativity. I despise it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 57 minutes ago, Dunbar said: Can I ask what your business was called Harry and the business that you sold to? If you are not comfortable sharing this then I would interested to know what sector you were/are in. Do you not believe me Dunbar? As in the minds of those who have an opinion that differs from my own re the Canadian Expansion process, I would offer myself to be certified if I fabricated a story like that just so as to appease myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said: Do you not believe me Dunbar? As in the minds of those who have an opinion that differs from my own re the Canadian Expansion process, I would offer myself to be certified if I fabricated a story like that just so as to appease myself. Quite the opposite Harry, I was interested in your story (particularly the part about the overconfident narcissist type leader which I have suffered with a little myself). I was just looking for more info... and I am aware this is well off topic for Rugby League so happy for you to share privately if you prefer. Again, let me stress, if you are not comfortable doing so (I am a stranger after all) then that's cool. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 hour ago, hunsletgreenandgold said: I read the post and then got to the 'needless to say...' part and read it again in Alan Partridge's* voice. Do it, it's fun! *For our Canadian friends on here, Alan Partridge is a parody character who has high levels of self importance, little Englander views and generally feels threatened by change. I had a factory, well small manufacturing unit in Beeston not far from where I should imagine you hail from, so in my expierience of the locallity it does not surprise me in the least that you would have to adopt an alter ego to try to get a point across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 47 minutes ago, Davo5 said: “Flat Earthers Inc” He can write after all, but I should imagine 3 words is about reaching the maximum, and I should imagine you would struggle with the joining up of the letters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omott91 Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said: It's born out of fear I suppose, not that TWP succeeds but the repercussions to the game over here, there is not enough substance to support more teams, something has to give. If I was in your position I would look at the situation this way. I would be optimistic that there is something new, fresh and different to follow, whether you support them or not. They're providing more opportunities for people to make a living out of playing rugby league. This is addition, not subtraction. I would be optimistic that more people want to invest their money into the game we love. Having more people enjoying the game we love. Having more exposure will in time hopefully have a domino effect that will make our game bigger and in the long run, benefit english rugby league. Downunder we are crying out for new teams and expansion, but can't figure out if we can afford it. Twp are costing the game a cent. Embrace what you have. Isn't that something to celebrate and be positive about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said: Really, I love your optimism, it won't happen. Of course it will Harry...there will be a TV contract next year...my God Man! 11 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: Do you not believe me Dunbar? Clearly Harry was in the adhesives/sealant business which makes it all the more ironic when he get 'stuck' in his arguments and 'sprung a high pressure leak'....... Harry just admit it, TWP is here to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunsletgreenandgold Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: I had a factory, well small manufacturing unit in Beeston not far from where I should imagine you hail from, so in my expierience of the locallity it does not surprise me in the least that you would have to adopt an alter ego to try to get a point across. And if I check Companies House I'll find a business registered to a Mr Harry Stottle would I? Oh wait.... I can normally get onboard with some of your points about TWP and you sometimes help provide a filter for some of Parky's ramblings - but that last post was a humble brag at the very least, completely irrelevant and had elements of stereotyping so many complain we suffer at worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: I had a factory, well small manufacturing unit in Beeston not far from where I should imagine you hail from, so in my expierience of the locallity it does not surprise me in the least that you would have to adopt an alter ego to try to get a point across. I own a small manufacturing business & factory, have also worked for large organisations in the financial industry... people like those you described exist in every single country and in every single walk of life.. I can understand a lot of what your reservations are re the wolfpack but I wouldn't judge it on the experience you have as that could be said for Germany (where i had a boss like that), Italy (where i had a team member like that.. i was his boss!), France and a fair few towns and cities in england where we sell products now. I also know, in exactly the same teams and places, some fantastic people who would also listen, who would take on board advice and who have thriving businesses etc because that is what they do (i strive to do it, I know I don't always get it right but I am always learning even about myself) I can see your reservations, I don't agree with them (as we have discussed in the past) but i think some of it is optimism vs skepticism but I hope you are not basing a large proportion of skepticism on one/two experiences of people from nearby in a different industry. There are idiots everywhere, sometimes all you can do is hope that that is not who you are dealing with (they seem ok)... also don't base everything on the likes of Kman who are very much tubthumping, they're not the ones running the show though... I am looking forward to selling this place one day though.. dont care who to right now!!! staff are getting on my nerves!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 19 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: Do you not believe me Dunbar? As in the minds of those who have an opinion that differs from my own re the Canadian Expansion process, I would offer myself to be certified if I fabricated a story like that just so as to appease myself. Edit to my previous answer. While I remain interested in your story and experiences Harry, on reflection it is not appropriate for me to ask you for details on this site. My apologies. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjonn Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Of course I would like any RL club to be successful and sustainable, including Toronto - I fancy the trip over myself. Never-the less it still feels an ad-hoc happening as distinct from some strategic thought through plan/pathway for the sport in the UK. Is SL aiming to be a Anglo/French and NA league or is Toronto the one and only exception. Their are lots of questions that need to be addressed if the former and whilst I see lots of comments cheering Toronto acceptance I see no worthwhile discussion on the plan going forward and consequences. I just mainly see comments deriding anyone whom may have questions or concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulga Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Has anyone looked into Harry and Parky being the same person? I've always been pretty sure they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tre Cool Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, redjonn said: Of course I would like any RL club to be successful and sustainable, including Toronto - I fancy the trip over myself. Never-the less it still feels an ad-hoc happening as distinct from some strategic thought through plan/pathway for the sport in the UK. Is SL aiming to be a Anglo/French and NA league or is Toronto the one and only exception. Their are lots of questions that need to be addressed if the former and whilst I see lots of comments cheering Toronto acceptance I see no worthwhile discussion on the plan going forward and consequences. I just mainly see comments deriding anyone whom may have questions or concerns. New sustainable well run clubs in major cities (+ Perpignan!) are exactly what we need as a sport, for commercial and image reasons. Our image has held us back for so long so I'm very much pro Toulouse/Toronto/Catalans....but yes there seems on the face of it no plan. And how are we SUPPORTING Toronto with their development and inclusion rather than making demands of them? How are we as a sport doing anything apart from saying yes you can come and play in our league but it's at your cost and risk? Seems wrong to me. My other concern is the finals. As a sport we are AWFUL at marketing big matches as events and are hugely reliant on hardcore fans turning up for the major finals. We're also hugely reliant on the income provided from these few events. How are we going to deal with the financial and image damage of a cup final / grand final / magic weekend with potentially 3+ clubs with no UK based fanbase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 28 minutes ago, Pulga said: Has anyone looked into Harry and Parky being the same person? I've always been pretty sure they are. I've been down that road and it has been confirmed by John Drake that they are not the same person (even though the sentence and paragraph structure are the same). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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