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The Future is League

Jackson Hastings given the all clear for GB

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56 minutes ago, Allora said:

If you move to Australia as a young kid you can not become a resident and Aussie and play for your home Nation?

 

Some of these players mentioned  will have no Australian bloodline, Hastings does.

By constantly excusing the Aussies recruitment of non Australians (Carroll had played for NZ previously) smacks of hypocrisy especially as Aus RL has the largest player pool in the world to source from. 

I think it’s best to accept that if a player decides to play for a country and they qualify then that’s the way the world is and get on with it.

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3 hours ago, Allora said:

It looks more like opportunism to me.

If he had stayed at Manly do you think he would be throwing his Hat in the ring?

If Semi Radradra had stayed in Nadi do you think he would still have been dreaming of pulling on a Kangaroo jersey?

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1 hour ago, Allora said:

How will it change the game?

More kids will play the game, Schools will be making it a compulsory sport?

Sponsors lining up with huge deals, the media fighting for the Super League contract?

 

Dont underestimate the effect on kids of watching a successful national team. I became a cricket fan / player after the the late 80s ashes win in Australia... I still play and I still pay to watch games as a result 

Yes, sponsorship will hugely increase if we win the world Cup

Exposure.... I live and work near London. The NZ series win here really got work colleagues watching and talking about league

Dont underestimate what it would do.... Actually change that... 'will do'.... I think we are favourites 

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13 minutes ago, northamptoncougar said:

 

I think it’s best to accept that if a player decides to play for a country and they qualify then that’s the way the world is and get on with it.

All nations in all sports do it... It's fine

If it means we win an Aussie series or WC then who cares

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8 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

All nations in all sports do it... It's fine

If it means we win an Aussie series or WC then who cares

Who cares if GB/England field Aussies and Kiwis because they can not develop their own Test players?

The fans in the Southern Hemisphere that will stop turning up to Test matches. (the ones that still do)

They will consider a team from England/GB with Hastings, Coote and Austin an admission of defeat by the system of developing local players in the North.

England is not Tonga or Samoa is it, or even Italy or Lebanon.

Put you best born or bred on show and let them win it, it was close last time in the final.

 


Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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1 minute ago, Allora said:

Who cares if GB/England field Aussies and Kiwis because they can not develop their own Test players?

The fans in the Southern Hemisphere that will stop turning up to Test matches. (the ones that still do)

They will consider a team from England/GB with Hastings, Coote and Austin an admission of defeat by the system of developing local players in the North.

England is not Tonga or Samoa is it, or even Italy or Lebanon.

Put you best born or bred on show and let them win it, it was close last time in the final.

 

If we don't win internationally then the young generation here are less likely to be inspired.... Then less good players for the future

The Aussies have not much interest because we haven't beaten them in 12 years or whatever 

If it becomes a contest again they'll turn up and care

3 Aussie born players in a squad of 30 is hardly a take over

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25 minutes ago, Scubby said:

If Semi Radradra had stayed in Nadi do you think he would still have been dreaming of pulling on a Kangaroo jersey?

I do not know but he was a Union player there not a League player.

Once he moved to Australia he played League and was developed in Oz as a League player, the fact he chased the money to France is another matter.

Australia has rarely if ever selected a player that was not brought through the Australian system or moved to Oz as a youngster.

England/GB want to select three players that have been in England for less than two years that moved to England to ply their professional trade and are taking up the opportunity to win a test Cap because that chance is not available in their Country of birth.

 

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6 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

If we don't win internationally then the young generation here are less likely to be inspired.... Then less good players for the future

The Aussies have not much interest because we haven't beaten them in 12 years or whatever 

If it becomes a contest again they'll turn up and care

3 Aussie born players in a squad of 30 is hardly a take over

I like your posts and your sentiments, I do not agree on this though.

If they lose with the three Aussies mentioned they will care a lot less about watching Test matches though, I am sure about that.

I hope England win the next World Cup but with English born or raised players.

Edited by Allora

Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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1 minute ago, Allora said:

I do not know but he was a Union player there not a League player.

Once he moved to Australia he played League and was developed in Oz as a League player, the fact he chased the money to France is another matter.

Australia has rarely if ever selected a player that was not brought through the Australian system or moved to Oz as a youngster.

England/GB want to select three players that have been in England for less than two years that moved to England to ply their professional trade and are taking up the opportunity to win a test Cap because that chance is not available in their Country of birth.

 

Put you best born or bred on show 😄 

If he wasn't in RU he would on the wing for Australia now. Hypocrites 

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30 minutes ago, Allora said:

Who cares if GB/England field Aussies and Kiwis because they can not develop their own Test players?

The fans in the Southern Hemisphere that will stop turning up to Test matches. (the ones that still do)

They will consider a team from England/GB with Hastings, Coote and Austin an admission of defeat by the system of developing local players in the North.

England is not Tonga or Samoa is it, or even Italy or Lebanon.

Put you best born or bred on show and let them win it, it was close last time in the final.

 

Yet Hastings, Coote and Austin have far more British heratage than say Sir Mo Farah - who has no UK heratage at all yet is a Sir, runs for GB and was the UK sports Personality of the year.

No one would dare say he isn't British or that he should only race for Somalia instead.

I would prefer only UK born RL players playing for GB but there are no set rules any more in world sport - even Oz Cricket chose to play Andrew Symonds when he was one of the best batsmen in the world as it made their team better and hes British.

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16 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Did it include players like Akuila Uate who didn't move to NSW until he was 15? Did he start his breeding then?

He moved to Australia as a Schoolkid, he is hardly Hastings, Coote or Austin is he?

Uate was born in Votua, in the Province of Nadroga-Navosa, Fiji and moved to Woy Woy, New South Wales, Australia as a 15-year old.

He played his junior football for the Woy Woy Roosters in New South Wales before being signed by the Newcastle Knights

Do you want him to play for England now.

I do not know how many times this needs to be said but Australia is a Country of immigrants, if people move for a better life in Australia and then take up Rugby League can they not be selected?

Its a lot different than a player trained in another Country at a professional level moving to England for 12 months and then being picked because his Gran was born in Blackpool.

 


Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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2 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Yet Hastings, Coote and Austin have far more British heratage than say Sir Mo Farah - who has no UK heratage at all yet is a Sir, runs for GB and was the UK sports Personality of the year.

No one would dare say he isn't British or that he should only race for Somalia instead.

I would prefer only UK born RL players playing for GB but there are no set rules any more in world sport - even Oz Cricket chose to play Andrew Symonds when he was one of the best batsmen in the world as it made their team better and hes British.

Andrew Symonds moved to Australia as a three month year old baby.

Farah moved to England aged eight, who would have a problem with him representing England.. No one.

That is exactly my argument.

Hardly a similar comparison to Coote, Hastings and Austin.

Try telling Symonds he could not play for Australia and see how it ends up in Court.

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3 minutes ago, Allora said:

He moved to Australia as a Schoolkid, he is hardly Hastings, Coote or Austin is he?

Uate was born in Votua, in the Province of Nadroga-Navosa, Fiji and moved to Woy Woy, New South Wales, Australia as a 15-year old.

He played his junior football for the Woy Woy Roosters in New South Wales before being signed by the Newcastle Knights

Do you want him to play for England now.

I do not know how many times this needs to be said but Australia is a Country of immigrants, if people move for a better life in Australia and then take up Rugby League can they not be selected?

Its a lot different than a player trained in another Country at a professional level moving to England for 12 months and then being picked because his Gran was born in Blackpool.

 

That is not bred, he was 15 year-old. He wouldn't even qualify for Origin now. Australia have more juniors than any other country on the planet yet they still want their cake and eat it. Making a judgement on what England or GB do or not do is fine. Taking the high ground that Australia haven't found any way they can to get the best players to align to Australia is double-standards.

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5 minutes ago, Scubby said:

That is not bred, he was 15 year-old. He wouldn't even qualify for Origin now. Australia have more juniors than any other country on the planet yet they still want their cake and eat it. Making a judgement on what England or GB do or not do is fine. Taking the high ground that Australia haven't found any way they can to get the best players to align to Australia is double-standards.

Australia have made many mistakes in the past, no doubt about it.

Sometimes those mistakes have had issues to do with SOO selection and criteria.

Uate played for the Australian Schoolboys in 2005 before being selected for Australia about seven years later.

More often than not the displeasure of the fans on those selections has made the authorities change many criteria rules.

Radradra was the pinnacle of this, I have followed Parramatta for 44 years and i did not agree with it at all, nobody I knew did.

When has Australia selected an established first grade Rugby League player from another Country in modern times?

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Allora said:

Andrew Symonds moved to Australia as a three month year old baby.

Farah moved to England aged eight, who would have a problem with him representing England.. No one.

That is exactly my argument.

Hardly a similar comparison to Coote, Hastings and Austin.

Try telling Symonds he could not play for Australia and see how it ends up in Court.

Calm down kid - Symonds is still British and Mo isn't but both represented countries that they were not born in.

So as you seem to have the rule book what is the official age cut off? Is it 10 or 15 or 21 or something else? 

Let us all know and then we can tell Wayne Bennett 🤣🤣 - or are you just trying to back your argument up with none facts.

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7 minutes ago, Allora said:

 

When has Australia selected an established first grade Rugby League player from another Country in modern times?

 

 

 

Loads - James Tamou, Willie Mason, - but what's your cut off point??

Your game so your rules I'm assuming.

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9 posts removed and 7 day suspension added.


“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" - Mark Twain

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21 minutes ago, Allora said:

You must have missed my point

Where did Tamou and Mason establish themselves in Rugby League before being brought into the Australian Squad.

Answer they were kids brought through Junior League in Australia and developed in NRL Clubs.

Unlike Coote, Austin, Hastings, Chase, McQueen and Heighington.

Lets face it Widdop was built in Oz same as Jack Reed who moved to Oz as a toddler.

 

So what about Tom Burgess - did he play SL.

So your rules are they must have been developed in a country before they can play for that nation - nationality has nothing to do with it then?

Wasnt Tamou about 16 when he went to Oz? Again what is your cut off point - you dont seem to know what your argument is never mind the answer.

 

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8 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

So what about Tom Burgess - did he play SL.

So your rules are they must have been developed in a country before they can play for that nation - nationality has nothing to do with it then?

Wasnt Tamou about 16 when he went to Oz? Again what is your cut off point - you dont seem to know what your argument is never mind the answer.

 

Like it or not the selection of Hasings for the GB squad hasn't broken any current eligibility rules,since moving here the lad seems to have sorted the problems that dogged him in Australia and so if he wants to commit to playing for GB that's fine with me,3 players in a squad of 30 is hardly going to dilute the national identity of the team now is it.

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Garry Schofield is against Aussies playing for England, and tbh I can see why. It looks like “we can’t beat Aussies, so let’s bring in Aussies to beat Aussies.” RL being a small world it makes it stand out even more (if the player had been from say, the Cayman Islands, or Gibraltar, it wouldn’t look so prominent, but it being an Aussie (and an exceptional Aussie at that) to compete against Australia it’s hard to hide).

The point has been made, England is not Tonga, or Ireland, or Lebanon. It’s one of the three/four bona fide RL playing nations (one of two with a pro league) with its own player pool, so to be relying on the other RL playing nation for players is not a good look. It would also make England look like a club team that makes transfers to make the team better, rather than relying on their own talent.

Mo Farah being used is not a good comparison. An 8 year old child growing up in the UK where he developed, or an Australian with an English grandparent who developed his game in the Aussie system. The heritage rule is personally one I’d get rid of. Residency (5 years at the very minimum) has a lot more legitimacy. The country where you developed your game (even just formative years), that to me would carry most weight.

 

The counter to all this is having better players no matter what their nationality does enhance England’s chances of winning. And with success it could very well raise the profile of the sport.

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1 hour ago, DC77 said:

 

Mo Farah being used is not a good comparison. An 8 year old child growing up in the UK where he developed, or an Australian with an English grandparent who developed his game in the Aussie system. The heritage rule is personally one I’d get rid of. Residency (5 years at the very minimum) has a lot more legitimacy. The country where you developed your game (even just formative years), that to me would carry most weight.

 

 

So does Widdop qualify?

Tom Burgess who never played SL?

What is your cut off point? 8year old or say 15 ??

Your idea is valid but until you have clear guidelines everyone will have a  opinion.

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4 hours ago, Allora said:

I like your posts and your sentiments, I do not agree on this though.

If they lose with the three Aussies mentioned they will care a lot less about watching Test matches though, I am sure about that.

I hope England win the next World Cup but with English born or raised players.

Fair enough. We are in the right place to voice opinions and disagree I guess

Glad we agree that winning the WC would be great.... Would take months to get the smile off my face I reckon 

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Hypocrisy at its finest...All the non Australians that have played for Australia are fine...because they pass Alloras own, bias criteria. All the non British/English that will play for GB/England are not fine...Because they dont pass Alloras own, bias criteria.

 

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Just read through this discussion and I have to say in general I agree with Allora. There is a very big difference between a young man moving with his family to a new country to make a home and build a new life and a professional sportsperson moving to a country for a new contract.

These things are complicated but I think all the cases Allora has put forward are very fair and accusations of hypocrisy are harsh.

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